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Harvey's Stock Soaring but concerned about his mediocre vertical

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  • Harvey's Stock Soaring but concerned about his mediocre vertical

    So now it seems like Harvey is a likely top-10 pick.

    Anybody else find it strange though that in the best measure of explosiveness - vertical leap - (28 inches), Harvey ranks very poorly for a top DE prospect. in fact looking back to last year, all but one defensive lineman drafted in the first 2 rounds (14 players, a banged up and 330 lb Alan Branch did slightly worse), including DT's had a better, and often significantly better vertical leap. Is he just a bad jumper, or does he legitimately lack the explosive athleticism that is a prerequisite to play DE at a high level in the NFL?

  • #2
    I've been concerned about his athleticism since the combine, but I guess he's been doing outstandingly in positional drills. Maybe he's just one of those guys that outperforms his measurables by a great deal because of his knowledge of and savvy for the game.


    The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

    If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

    <Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
    <Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge

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    • #3
      He couldn't break 4.8 in the 40 either. I like him, but you've got to show me some numbers if you're gonna crack top-15. It's not like his sack numbers and performance in college was that outstanding. He must be doing something real impressive in drills.

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      • #4
        Don't forget that you're comparing Harvey's vert to players from 2006. This year across the board at the combine players put up lower (in many cases much lower) verticals than at their pro days. Numerous sources have confirmed that there was a measuring error at the combine.


        Another thread which talks about this:

        http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/for...ad.php?t=20108

        That being said his vertical and broad jump numbers were unimpressive even in relation to the other D Ends at the combine this year, combine that with his mediocre 40 time and there is reason for concern at a player considered a pass rush specialist. But in terms of quickness NFL personnel rave about him after seeing him in person. And in terms of explosiveness, while he might not be much of a leaper, on tape his first step is very explosive. Definitly a guy who outplays his numbers.

        IMO Harvey may have added weight for the combine (he was reportedly closer to 262 lbs for most of the college season) and might still be getting used to moving around with that extra weight, other players like Kentwan Balmer, Calais Campbell and Ali Highsmith seemed to be in that same boat as well.

        As of right now I think he is firmly the #3 DE and a top 20 pick on most boards but that's a combination of how good he is and certain circumstances as well. Teams always need pass rushers, so DEs are usually in high demand (esp after the Gaints won the superbowl in the copycat league that is the NFL). After the top 2 guys there seems to be a bit of a drop off, Groves probably projects better as an OLB and Merling is a bit of an unknown because he hasn't worked out for scouts. Harvey represents the best available option outside of the top 10 so some teams (from several reports Jacksonville, Carolina, Minny etc) are all over him.

        To use a bad analagy :P say the two best looking girls at your school had long term boyfriends. All of a sudden the "hottest" girl and the one most guys would be chasing would be the cutest one that was single.
        Last edited by Solomon; 03-28-2008, 01:21 PM.
        10 Favourite prospects for 2010: Colt McCoy, Dez Bryant, Golden Tate, Noel Devine, Ndamukong Suh, Greg Hardy, Eric Norwood, Travis Lewis, Eric Berry, Trevard Lindley

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        • #5
          Harvey is a very dominant pass rusher...you can teach him how to jump better...but he does look like a top 10 pick now...I wouldn't be surprised if he went to the Bengals at #9...

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          • #6
            i dont see all the hype...harvey to me is a top 20 pick, and doesnt deserve to sniff the top 10.

            He must looks like gold in those position drills cause his numbers, as you said, are unimpressive across the board. Now, numbers arent everything, but his college production wasnt exactly stunning either. Didnt he have like, 6 sacks this year? Something like that. There are plenty of other DE's who i think are more deserving to go ahead of him...in fact, i have him as my #5 DE

            1.Gholston
            2. Long
            3. Groves
            4. Merling
            5. Harvey
            6. Ellis

            At the beginning of the year, i haad ellis above harvey, and right now, its starting to look like that again. Im sorry, i just dont see all the hype around harvey, and i would not touch him in the top 10 with many more suitable players. He offers absolutely NOTHING on run downs, is weak at the POA, and as has been stated above, there can now be questions about his explosion and athleticism. Would you want to spend a top 10 pick on him?

            Sorry, ive been wanting to say that for a long time lol. Im not a fan of Harvey at all, and i think hes grossly overrated.
            Originally posted by Mr. Goosemahn
            The APS is strong in this one.
            Originally posted by killxswitch
            Tears for Fears is better than whatever it is you happen to be thinking about right now.

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            • #7
              With Merling undergoing surgery, Harvey could be the third end. There could be a run on defensive ends early if the Dolphins go with Chris Long or Vernon Gholston.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by JagHombre22 View Post
                Harvey is a very dominant pass rusher...you can teach him how to jump better...but he does look like a top 10 pick now...I wouldn't be surprised if he went to the Bengals at #9...
                Oh I know he is SO dominant. I mean, look at his UNBELIEVABLE 8.5 sacks this year. 2 of which were against the mighty Western Kentucky Hilltoppers, 2 of which came against a guard playing RT in Stephen Schilling. WOW I am absolutely BLOWN AWAY by his dominance.

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                • #9
                  in terms of football performance (not physical upside) I like Derrick Harvey better than Gholston. He played in a better conference against better competition with less help. And he actually played well in teh BCS champ game, instead of some people who went 1/2 speed and tried not to get hurt.
                  my shoes hurt

                  Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

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                  • #10
                    If he didn't have the performance that he did in the National Championship Game against Ohio State then I think most people see him as a late 1st and early 2nd value guy, but many people are still living that performance and ignoring the 8.5 sacks he had this year...and people are expecting him to be an elite pass rusher, NO WAY!


                    Follow me on Twitter! http://twitter.com/#!/aMo_Captain

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by princefielder28 View Post
                      If he didn't have the performance that he did in the National Championship Game against Ohio State then I think most people see him as a late 1st and early 2nd value guy, but many people are still living that performance and ignoring the 8.5 sacks he had this year...and people are expecting him to be an elite pass rusher, NO WAY!
                      ask any scout (or even any die hard Gator fan) who was better Jarvis Moss or Derrick Harvey? and they will all say Harvey. Moss went 17 or so that means Harvey has to go higher.
                      my shoes hurt

                      Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bitonti View Post
                        ask any scout (or even any die hard Gator fan) who was better Jarvis Moss or Derrick Harvey? and they will all say Harvey. Moss went 17 or so that means Harvey has to go higher.
                        are those the same scouts that think Matt Ryan is a "Franchise QB?"

                        I don't really care what Gator fans think either because they don't have an outsiders opinion...people continue to live that ONE game instead of taking in the entire resume


                        Follow me on Twitter! http://twitter.com/#!/aMo_Captain

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by princefielder28 View Post
                          are those the same scouts that think Matt Ryan is a "Franchise QB?"

                          I don't really care what Gator fans think either because they don't have an outsiders opinion...people continue to live that ONE game instead of taking in the entire resume
                          please name one other Gators lineman who takes the pressure off of Harvey.

                          he does what he does by himself, facing double teams.

                          He had that great game against OSU, thought about declaring, and the scouts sat him down and told him he had to work on his run defense.

                          What did he do but exactly that. The guy is coachable, hard working and a football player. He's not a workout warrior he's a football player.
                          my shoes hurt

                          Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bitonti View Post
                            ask any scout (or even any die hard Gator fan) who was better Jarvis Moss or Derrick Harvey? and they will all say Harvey. Moss went 17 or so that means Harvey has to go higher
                            that is without doubt the most unintelligent statement regarding the draft i have ever heard...think about that for just one second. Your saying that because moss went at 17, it means harvey HAS to go higher. ok bud...like thats just stupid. There are a multitude of reasons that suggest harvey might go after 17...what if the value is there? what if there are plenty of DE's better in this class and there wasnt in moss's class? what if there is a select #of teams with a need at DE, and harvey just misses out on those teams? what if, for some reason, harvey just slides past 17?

                            Like, for real dude, you just made yourself sound like a huge tool. Thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard...
                            Originally posted by Mr. Goosemahn
                            The APS is strong in this one.
                            Originally posted by killxswitch
                            Tears for Fears is better than whatever it is you happen to be thinking about right now.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by A Perfect Score View Post
                              Like, for real dude, you just made yourself sound like a huge tool. Thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard...
                              ok buddy im gonna book mark this thread, when draft day comes and Derrick Harvey goes higher than 17 what are you gonna do then? assign more bad rep?
                              my shoes hurt

                              Why Me? The Bob Lamonta Story

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