Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hypocrisy

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hypocrisy

    This forum makes no sense. Everytime I read it 95% of the people on here talk about how unimportant the combine is, particularly things like the 40, Bench, etc.

    Yet, the combine comes up, and people can't stop making rash decisions on players based on the very drills they were calling largely unimportant.

    All of a sudden a guy like Maybin is a 3rd round talent.

    Heyward-Bey (who everybody knew had amazing track speed anyway!) is a lock for the first half of the 1st round.

    Laurinaitis doesn't have the speed to play in space.

    etc. etc. etc.

  • #2
    Originally posted by I KNOW IT ALL View Post
    This forum makes no sense. Everytime I read it 95% of the people on here talk about how unimportant the combine is, particularly things like the 40, Bench, etc.

    Yet, the combine comes up, and people can't stop making rash decisions on players based on the very drills they were calling largely unimportant.

    All of a sudden a guy like Maybin is a 3rd round talent.

    Heyward-Bey (who everybody knew had amazing track speed anyway!) is a lock for the first half of the 1st round.

    Laurinaitis doesn't have the speed to play in space.

    etc. etc. etc.

    sadly I was gonna post the same exact thing

    this thread=truth
    my scent?...like making love to a lumberjack
    <TACKLE> i will ngata give you a bj raji
    <+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
    <+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
    Originally posted by Hermstheman83
    What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree. I think that the overall importance of the combine is right around the middle of "not important at all" and "your career is on the line if you don't do great."

      Comment


      • #4
        i dont see how its hypocrisy when they say the drills are unimportant but they are a lock because of that.

        Themselves, they can believe in the drills being useless, doesnt mean the NFL teams evaluate that way and it doesnt mean it increases their stock

        Comment


        • #5
          its not really important, but when you see players like knowshon running so much slower than running backs from year's past, it makes you scratch your head a bit

          Comment


          • #6
            it reminds me of a job interview..your resume speaks volumes but you can make or break your chance of a job during the interview process. sorta? lol
            my scent?...like making love to a lumberjack
            <TACKLE> i will ngata give you a bj raji
            <+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
            <+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
            Originally posted by Hermstheman83
            What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by I KNOW IT ALL View Post
              This forum makes no sense. Everytime I read it 95% of the people on here talk about how unimportant the combine is, particularly things like the 40, Bench, etc.

              Yet, the combine comes up, and people can't stop making rash decisions on players based on the very drills they were calling largely unimportant.

              All of a sudden a guy like Maybin is a 3rd round talent.

              Heyward-Bey (who everybody knew had amazing track speed anyway!) is a lock for the first half of the 1st round.

              Laurinaitis doesn't have the speed to play in space.

              etc. etc. etc.
              I'd say some of it is an overreaction and some of it is not. If a prospect is more potential than production and does poorly in the combine....... his draft stock is going to plummet. Thats the way it is and the way it should be. On the flip side, we all knew DHB was going to have an impressive 40, but how many really figured 4.3 flat and the fastest guy at the combine? We all knew he was fast, but at the very least I didn't think he was THAT fast.

              Comment


              • #8
                There is a distinction. The combine is essential to draft stock, however, it isn't too important in terms of who everyone feels is a good player. At this point everyone knows who they think can play and who can't. The combine is most important for draft nuts in that it has such a profound impact on where people get drafted. However, it can also somewhat influence people's opinions on someone.

                One example, small school prospects that beat up crappy competition can go to the combine and show that they have the tools to compete at ta higher level.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would love to see the interviews with players that teams conduct. I would think that those along with medical evaluations are probably the two most important things. I think the position drills are probably third.

                  Pick the Winners Champion 2008 | 2011

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The draft is kind of like the stock market. A lot of it is based on psychology. Company stocks frequently rise or drop not because they made or lost money, but because they lost less money than we thought they would or they didn't make as much money as we thought they would. It's the same thing with football players before the draft. Guys move up because they fail to live down to our expectations and guys move down because they don't live up to our expectations.

                    The important difference between the market and the draft, though, is that football is full of people who are fans and apologists, while the market is less so. There are all sorts of people in the world who think that USC is the best football team, and that any of USC's players are better than any player on any other football team. So when we get contradictory evidence for these theories, people tend to either be disappointed, or become apologists in the sense of "the combine just doesn't matter" or "all that matters is tape."

                    There's a grain of truth in "all that matters is tape", but there's a certain value in being able to compare players on equal grounds. Wake Forest doesn't have the same talent on defense as USC, so it's non-trivial to compare Curry to Maualuga (for example.) But when you have them both do the same drills that test football relevant ability, you notice things about their relative speed, fluidity, etc. that may be harder to get off of game film (particularly between those two, since they played different positions in college, but may be playing the same position in the pros.)

                    So the combine is neither the be-all and end-all, but neither is tape, since comparative talent levels are nowhere near level across NCAA football. People are going to be disappointed and/or apologists because they're fans, and a fundamental aspect of "fandom" is "irrationality" (since "fan" is etymologically derived from "fanatic"). People aren't really hypocrites, they're just fans; fans of players, fans of teams, whatever. There's nothing wrong with this, since football is more fun when you're a fan of someone or something, but it is going to leave you looking silly every once in a while. But it happens to everybody. If it happens to you too much, or too little you may want to re-evaluate some of the ways you look at things, but there's no real shame to be had here.
                    Last edited by PossibleCabbage; 02-24-2009, 01:24 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think it's part of the process. Funny how it is important when someone is trying to make their case and unimportant when their guy doesnt do well.

                      In the end you have to evaluate their play on the field but if you have two or more players with seemingly equal grades it can seperate.

                      An example, my team is looking for a 3-4 OLB in the middle of round 1. My choices are Maybin, Matthews and Cushing. Matthews and Cushing have some experience playing in space and both run somewhat faster than Maybin, who has played with his hand on the ground. Who do you think i'm going to take?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bored of education View Post
                        it reminds me of a job interview..your resume speaks volumes but you can make or break your chance of a job during the interview process. sorta? lol
                        that's a good way to look at it

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
                          The draft is kind of like the stock market. A lot of it is based on psychology. Company stocks frequently rise or drop not because they made or lost money, but because they lost money than we thought they would or they didn't make as much money as we thought they would. It's the same thing with football players before the draft. Guys move up because they fail to live down to our expectations and guys move down because they don't live up to our expectations.

                          The important difference between the market and the draft, though, is that football is full of people who are fans and apologists, while the market is less so. There are all sorts of people in the world who think that USC is the best football team, and that any of USC's players are better than any player on any other football team. So when we get contradictory evidence for these theories, people tend to either be disappointed, or become apologists in the sense of "the combine just doesn't matter" or "all that matters is tape."

                          There's a grain of truth in "all that matters is tape", but there's a certain value in being able to compare players on equal grounds. Wake Forest doesn't have the same talent on defense as USC, so it's non-trivial to compare Curry to Maualuga (for example.) But when you have them both do the same drills that test football relevant ability, you notice things about their relative speed, fluidity, etc. that may be harder to get off of game film (particularly between those two, since they play different positions.)

                          So the combine is neither the be-all and end-all, but neither is tape, since comparative talent levels are nowhere near level across NCAA football. People are going to be disappointed and/or apologists because they fans, and a fundamental aspect of "fandom" is "irrationality" (since "fan" is etymologically derived from "fanatic"). People aren't really hypocrites, they're just fans; fans of players, fans of teams, whatever. There's nothing wrong with this, since football is more fun when you're a fan of someone or something, but it is going to leave you looking silly every once in a while. But it happens to everybody. If it happens to you too much, or too little you may want to re-evaluate some of the ways you look at things, but there's no real shame to be had here.
                          Agreed, with basically everything in this post. There are people that value the combine too much, and people that value tape too much, but what good scouts, and smart fans will do, is find the proper meshing of how valuable the tape and combine drills, interviews, etc. are. I don't go based off of solely what I've seen from a player on the field. I think it is slightly more importnat than the combine, but the combine has its importance just like you said, in exposing the differences on an even playing field between different yet similar players.
                          Nanna Bryndís Hilmarsdóttir is a goddess

                          Rest in Peace, themaninblack

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The smart ones out there use the combine numbers to validate their grades on each player. If a player puts up good numbers, then that justifies their grades. If the numbers come back bad, then more research/consideration is required.

                            The dumb ones out there use the combine numbers to make their grades.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by I KNOW IT ALL View Post
                              This forum makes no sense. Everytime I read it 95% of the people on here talk about how unimportant the combine is, particularly things like the 40, Bench, etc.

                              Yet, the combine comes up, and people can't stop making rash decisions on players based on the very drills they were calling largely unimportant.

                              All of a sudden a guy like Maybin is a 3rd round talent.

                              Heyward-Bey (who everybody knew had amazing track speed anyway!) is a lock for the first half of the 1st round.

                              Laurinaitis doesn't have the speed to play in space.

                              etc. etc. etc.
                              I know in the back of my mind the combine is some what overrated while it is important what they did on the field is WAY more important.

                              That being said I'm such a football nut and crave any thing football its hard for me not to get sucked in to the hype so I'm guilty as charged sir.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X

                              Debug Information