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  • So, about this Pierre-Paul stuff...

    What are the reasons that people are starting to project him as a top 3 pick?

    I like the guy as a prospect, but he wasn't as productive as his talent should dictate and he's ONE YEAR out of JC.

    I understand scouts will believe what they will, but I'm curious as to what the origin of this belief is.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Supporting Caste View Post
    What are the reasons that people are starting to project him as a top 3 pick?

    I like the guy as a prospect, but he wasn't as productive as his talent should dictate and he's ONE YEAR out of JC.

    I understand scouts will believe what they will, but I'm curious as to what the origin of this belief is.

    Here is the thing about JPP. He is dominant on film and has some ridiculous measureables. His wingspan is one of the largest I have ever seen from a defensive lineman. Huge range, huge athleticism, and even without the sack numbers (similar to a guy like Kindle,) JPP was in the back field a lot, making hits, changing plays. That's what teams want more than "sack" numbers.

    Scouts are drooling over this guy, not one thinks he will fall out of the Top Ten, just be prepared for it.


    There is a big difference between watching the games (and granted, I didn't get them all, it is USF,) and observing the numbers. There is plenty on tape that isn't seen on a stat sheet.


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    • #3
      I included those descriptions of productivity in my own, I guess I just don't see the big deal as much.

      I guess I'm curious why these sentiments are popping up just now when this all would have been evident a long time ago? These projections surfaced basically within the last week or so.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Supporting Caste View Post
        I included those descriptions of productivity in my own, I guess I just don't see the big deal as much.

        I guess I'm curious why these sentiments are popping up just now when this all would have been evident a long time ago? These projections surfaced basically within the last week or so.
        I've been hearing about JPP's lofty draft status for the last couple of months.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Caddy View Post
          I've been hearing about JPP's lofty draft status for the last couple of months.
          Yeah, it has been around for awhile. Just trickling down to everyone, which always takes times for scouts to share the info and it to get sent around to those following.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Shane P. Hallam View Post
            Yeah, it has been around for awhile. Just trickling down to everyone, which always takes times for scouts to share the info and it to get sent around to those following.
            I assume the main reason for that is due to the fact that he was a junior. Not a lot of juniors who are playing their first year of DIV I ball declare for the draft.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Shane P. Hallam View Post
              Here is the thing about JPP. He is dominant on film and has some ridiculous measureables. His wingspan is one of the largest I have ever seen from a defensive lineman. Huge range, huge athleticism, and even without the sack numbers (similar to a guy like Kindle,) JPP was in the back field a lot, making hits, changing plays. That's what teams want more than "sack" numbers.

              Scouts are drooling over this guy, not one thinks he will fall out of the Top Ten, just be prepared for it.


              There is a big difference between watching the games (and granted, I didn't get them all, it is USF,) and observing the numbers. There is plenty on tape that isn't seen on a stat sheet.
              Can you point me in direction of this "dominant film"?

              I've watched him and came away impressed by all the potential he has, but right now he is not a very good football player. Not nearly good enough to be a top ten pick. The scouts love his amazing measurables first and foremost, and then he backs it up with alright production.

              There are certain things he does great. For example, he's a ridiculous at batting down passes But some of the basic, fundamental things like tackling, taking the right angles the ball, playing with proper pad level, etc. he lacks.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Shane P. Hallam View Post
                Here is the thing about JPP. He is dominant on film and has some ridiculous measureables. His wingspan is one of the largest I have ever seen from a defensive lineman. Huge range, huge athleticism, and even without the sack numbers (similar to a guy like Kindle,) JPP was in the back field a lot, making hits, changing plays. That's what teams want more than "sack" numbers.

                Scouts are drooling over this guy, not one thinks he will fall out of the Top Ten, just be prepared for it.


                There is a big difference between watching the games (and granted, I didn't get them all, it is USF,) and observing the numbers. There is plenty on tape that isn't seen on a stat sheet.
                Exactly.

                Everybody raves about how important statistical production is with prospects and how that matches up with their measurables.

                Truth be told, production itself is not as important as many people believe. Scouts are more interested in how they attained that production. Like you said, there's way too much that goes into a football game that doesn't appear on the stat sheet.

                And the reason why we're starting to here about JPP is because he's just now starting to get really broken down as a prospect. He's played one year of DI football coming out of a JC. He wasn't exactly on everybody's radar.

                I like him more than Morgan, TBH. Other than Super Mario, the big, "complete" DE prospects haven't faired well in recent years. Kenechi Udeze, Derrick Harvey, Jamaal Anderson being the biggest examples.
                Last edited by yourfavestoner; 02-11-2010, 01:39 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by superman8456 View Post
                  Can you point me in direction of this "dominant film"?

                  I've watched him and came away impressed by all the potential he has, but right now he is not a very good football player. Not nearly good enough to be a top ten pick. The scouts love his amazing measurables first and foremost, and then he backs it up with alright production.

                  There are certain things he does great. For example, he's a ridiculous at batting down passes But some of the basic, fundamental things like tackling, taking the right angles the ball, playing with proper pad level, etc. he lacks.
                  Just going off of games I've watched/DVRed this year. Yes, he doesn't tackle well or take the right angles, but he gets into the back field numerous times during a drive and pressures QBs a lot.


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                  • #10
                    So who in the top 10 snags him Jbond? KC and Cleveland seem like the only real options to me. Buffalo just took Maybin at 11 last year and the top 5 seems like it's got enough 'sure thing' talent in the QBs, Suh, Berry, McCoy and Okung.

                    Raiders? I guess that fits the slate.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CC.SD View Post
                      So who in the top 10 snags him Jbond? KC and Cleveland seem like the only real options to me. Buffalo just took Maybin at 11 last year and the top 5 seems like it's got enough 'sure thing' talent in the QBs, Suh, Berry, McCoy and Okung.

                      Raiders? I guess that fits the slate.
                      Cleveland, Oakland, Jacksonville, and maybe even Denver are all possibilities.


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                      • #12
                        Is he a better prospect than Michael Johnson was last year?

                        Is JPP a better prospect than Dunlap is?? Some players get hype heading into the draft and it propels them all the way into the draft, IMO.

                        Production may not be everything, but it's a red flag to select a player in the top 5 who wasn't clearly dominant in college, I think.

                        Ware, Freeney, Peppers, Mario Williams, Merriman and Dumervil were generally the best players on the defensive side of the ball in their last year of college football. You didn't have to be a pro scout to recognize their obvious ability.
                        JPP may belong in the former group based on his raw physical tools, but he's disappeared in too many games IMO to warrant a top 5 selection.

                        If JPP is taken in the top 5, Dunlap should be the #1 overall selection.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
                          Is he a better prospect than Michael Johnson was last year?

                          Is JPP a better prospect than Dunlap is?? Some players get hype heading into the draft and it propels them all the way into the draft, IMO.

                          Production may not be everything, but it's a red flag to select a player in the top 5 who wasn't clearly dominant in college, I think.

                          Ware, Freeney, Peppers, Mario Williams, Merriman and Dumervil were generally the best players on the defensive side of the ball in their last year of college football. You didn't have to be a pro scout to recognize their obvious ability.
                          JPP may belong in the former group based on his raw physical tools, but he's disappeared in too many games IMO to warrant a top 5 selection.

                          If JPP is taken in the top 5, Dunlap should be the #1 overall selection.
                          Yes and Yes. JPP's motor is much much better than Michael Johnson and Carlos Dunlap.


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
                            Is he a better prospect than Michael Johnson was last year?

                            Is JPP a better prospect than Dunlap is?? Some players get hype heading into the draft and it propels them all the way into the draft, IMO.

                            Production may not be everything, but it's a red flag to select a player in the top 5 who wasn't clearly dominant in college, I think.

                            Ware, Freeney, Peppers, Mario Williams, Merriman and Dumervil were generally the best players on the defensive side of the ball in their last year of college football. You didn't have to be a pro scout to recognize their obvious ability.
                            JPP may belong in the former group based on his raw physical tools, but he's disappeared in too many games IMO to warrant a top 5 selection.

                            If JPP is taken in the top 5, Dunlap should be the #1 overall selection.
                            JPP's lack of production doesn't come from not trying. He's actually pretty tenacious and he's got a good motor. He just really doesn't know what he's doing yet haha.

                            Michael Johnson and Carlos Dunlap? Lazy, lazy, lazy.

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                            • #15
                              I'd say he goes to the Dolphins at #12.

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