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  • #16
    Originally posted by brasho View Post
    I've said it before the Senior Bowl week started and I'll say it yet again. According to those that have been around him, CK has excellent work ethic. I feel tthat, and the ability to actually throw a ball is the most important thing a QB can have. Obviously, great natural talent will allow that player with a great work ethic to be a better player. If you take a look through NFL history, the QBs with the great work ethic are the most successful. Manning, Brady, Rivers, Brees... and now look at the difference work ethic has made to Michael Vick. He went from being a unmatched physical talent without a great work ethic (according to his own admission) to a slightly lesser physical talent (than he was) with an improved work ethic and he had by far his best season ever. Consider Ty Detmer and Chad Pennington's work ethics. Both of those guys were among the least physically talented QBs of the past 30 years and yet they both had long careers because they worked so hard at their craft.

    I don't understand Scott and Shane's disdain for CK. Obviously CK has tremendous physical tools. He might be the most physically gifted QB (from an NFL standpoint as speed > strength as a runner) to come out in several years, he has an excellent work ethic.. and he's not stupid.. so what's the hang-up? Yeah, he ran the pistol offense in college... and Brees ran the spread, so did Bradford, Freeman, and VY, Rivers ran a lot of spread, McNabb ran some option, so CK ran the pistol, which is basically a more powerful spread.

    When comparing CK to other prospects making the jump to the NFL you go back to last season and compare him with Tebow. As far as this comparison goes, CK has better size, a much better arm, better mobility, though his release isn't ideal-it is far better than Tebow's (it isn't a whole lot worse than Philip Rivers's was when he came out). I thought the Broncos and McDaniels jumped the gun a bit on Tebow and could have got him in the early 2nd without any feat of losing him...and as much as we slammed McDaniels for horrible decisions with personnel, this is one that actually didn't look so bad. Tebow put up 23 points or more in each of his starts, won 1 of his 3 games and looked competent while doing it. How did Tebow manage that despite not being a GREAT prospect? Work ethic. Everybody knew that Tebow would work harder than everybody and despite his perceived limitations, he had enough physical ability that he worked hard enough to make it work. And that's what I see with CK... only I don't see nearly as many physical limitations.

    I've compared CK to Randall Cunningham when he came out of UNLV in the 80's and I'm sticking to it. Both QBs had very thin builds. Cunningham was 6'4 205 when he came out of school, Kaepernick 6'5 225 though he looks very thin. Both QBs had very strong arms and amazing straight line speed (Cunningham 4.6 to CK's 4.5). Both QBs had hitches in their deliveries. Cunningham's release resembled a whip... CK drops the ball down as low as his solar plexus before bringing it back up to throw. As we all know, Cunningham had an excellent career, just like I think CK can as well.

    Randall Cunningham was drafted #37 overall in the 85 draft... and that's where I expect CK to be drafted, give or take 10-15 spots down or up. I expect him to be gone between picks 24-50.

    I watched the Senior Bowl practices and though NFLN had the worst coverage possible, I saw, on average, of 4 throws from Kaepernick per day... and throws I saw were there, some spectacular, some were screens, dump-offs, etc. Regardless of what happened on the other 46 throws CK had each day, he really brung the wow factor on several of the the throws I saw and based on that, NFL GMs will be more apt to take a chance on him because of it... especially considering how well he moves his feet. People always say that a good TE... or a running game, are a young QB's best friend... well, there's one more... his feet. Young QBs that can move their feet and put pressure on a defense that way as well as keeping the chains moving and buy time for better throws have shown to really help a young QB until that QB gets a hang of the offensive system.

    From a physical comparison standpoint to other similar type QBs in the past 20 years, CK is as good or better physically than Tebow, Kordell Stewart, Vince Young (better arm, speed, not a mental patient), Quncy Carter, Pat White, Tavaris Jackson, Jason Campbell, Shaun King, and even Steve McNair (better size, speed, and far better level of competition) and all of these guys were taken in either rounds 1 or 2. Colt McCoy was a 3rd rounder with a similar style but had ZERO abilities close to be on par with CK.

    Obviously, many of these guys didn't make it in the NFL and only McNair became a star... but if you compare the success ratio of these QBs with all other 1st and 2nd round QBs taken in the last 20 years you'll see similar results. And this isn't even including one QB, omiitted because he has the feet of an OG, Byron Leftwich (comparable arm strength, way better release, and 1000X better feet) which I wanted to include because people continually ant to harp on CK's less than ideal throwing motion... which is still way better than Tebow, Leftwich, and on par with VY's and Philip River's.

    Whether you really like CK, or like Scott and Shane-you hate him... let's face it, when you state that somebody will NEVER start in the NFL and you predict nothing but doom and gloom, you can't help but to root against a guy if for no other reason than to be right, so you guys hate him, you can't deny his physical talent. Considering the NFL drafts more based on potential than production (and CK has plenty of both), there is no denying his potential. There is also the great work ethic... and he certainly doesn't seem stupid, CK should go in the 1st 2 rounds.

    One thing I will agree with Shane and Scott on is that CK should not be thrust immediately into a starting role. As a matter of fact, I would prefer to see him brought along the way Cunningham or Steve McNair were, by inserting them in for a series, putting them in for certain plays (wlidcat-type) and let him get his feet wet that way.

    This guy has way too much talent for anybody to immediately announce he will NEVER make it in the NFL. Considering far less talented, experienced, and esteemed (by others) QBs like Tom Brady, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Rich Gannon (yes, he was drafted-but as a DB and then was gotten rid of when he declared he only wanted to play QB!), Jake Delhomme, David Garrard, and numerous others were said to have no shot at being a starting QB in the NFL, I think it is very premature to declare a player that has tremendous gifts, a strong work ethic, outstanding production, and good character to not have a chance.



    Great post.

    Colin Kaepernick is a very intriguing prospect. I think he will become a good starter in the league but do feel he needs time to develop (2 years) but use him in a few packages.

    I would love him as a finished prospect on the Panthers but doubt they go in that direction.

    I think he would fit great on the Jaguars where he can backup Garrad for a few years, then take over.

    Comment


    • #17
      He's very similar to Tebow as a prospect actually, both are great Athletes (Tebow's thicker while Kaepernick's faster), both are extremely coachable, and both have sort of goofy passing mechanics including long looping motions. The main difference as I see it is that Nevada is not Florida and the Mountain West is not the SEC.

      So if you think Tebow can be an NFL QB, there's no reason to think that Kaepernick can't be. Kaepernick won't be drafted nearly as high though, since the hype on Tebow was good for at least a round.
      Last edited by PossibleCabbage; 01-29-2011, 04:28 PM.

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      • #18
        He's the chic athletic, non-first round QB of the Draft. He fills the role guys like Pat White and Josh Johnson have in the past. Fans who are afraid of taking QBs with high picks love guys like this.

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        • #19
          Every QB in the Senior Bowl will be drafted 2nd round or higher. Maybe somebody takes a chance on Locker but all the other QBs were just as average EXCEPT for Ponder.

          He's the one that actually looked like a real QB today.

          CK does have all the intangibles like work ethic, size, arm strength but I just don't see him as a franchise NFL QB for the following 2 reasons:

          Struggles with a pocket and his release is hideous. Tim Tebow shouldn't have been drafted in rd 1 and thats why McDy isn't an NFL HC anymore.

          I hate the Gators but I would take Tebow before CK 1000 years straight.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by REDSKINSWARRIOR82 View Post
            I like this player more than I do of Jake locker. He will be a fast version of Freeman the bucks qb.
            Yes, Milwaukee will go far with him, Go Bucks!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by 87Canes View Post
              Every QB in the Senior Bowl will be drafted 2nd round or higher. Maybe somebody takes a chance on Locker but all the other QBs were just as average EXCEPT for Ponder.

              He's the one that actually looked like a real QB today.

              CK does have all the intangibles like work ethic, size, arm strength but I just don't see him as a franchise NFL QB for the following 2 reasons:

              Struggles with a pocket and his release is hideous. Tim Tebow shouldn't have been drafted in rd 1 and thats why McDy isn't an NFL HC anymore.

              I hate the Gators but I would take Tebow before CK 1000 years straight.
              Again showing your lack of football acumen? So you give CK credit for work ethic, size, and arm strength but knock him for a throwing motion that isn't any worse than Philip Rivers' was coming out of college? He had ZERO struggles in the pocket considering how poorly the North's OL routinedly blocked.

              By my count CK threw 5 incompletions. He had 3 drops (including the beautiful seam he threw to TE McNeil that bounced off his hands for an INT), 1 throwaway, and 1 pass that was off the mark when Phill Taylor got nearly instant penetration and was in his face as he threw it.

              When comparing Ponder and Kaeprnick's games, there really is no comparison. CK threw his outs with plenty of zip and right on target, Ponder's got there on target but were seriously lacking steam. Because of the rules of this game (only cover 3, or man off) the outs HAD to be there, I could have completed outs and I can't throw a ball more than 40 yards. Kapernick had several throws towards the hashes that traveled 20 yards or more that were dead on the money on a line. Ponder had one such throw (the TD to Kerley) in which he put a little oomph into it... but the absolute worst throw of the game?

              The worst throw of the game happened to be the long completion Ponder through to Leonard Hankerson. Hankerson ran a go and Ponder through the ball nearly straight up in the air. Just the fact that Ponder through the ball when Hankerson had the DB at a deeper depth than he was and with a safety over the top was a poor decision. Then the trajectory of the throw, and the fact that it wsa underthrown by 10 yards made a bad decision worse. Yes, it turned out to be a long completion to Hankerson, but that was because of a great adjustment by the receiver and the fact that a LB couldn't get back on time nor the safety up in time. The pass should have been picked off, it was terrible.

              You can't say the same thing about CK. On his actual INT, CK had a heavy rush from the edge and he stepped up in the pocket (the way a QB is supposed to and ran towards the line, started to run to his left when he got near the line, he opened up his shoulders (while running to his left) and threw a laser about 20 yards down the field that hit TE Mike McNeil in stride but it bounced off his hands for a pick. That was a fantastic play, just like when CK extended the play in his final play and threw a ball that was dropped near the sideline by Kendall Hunter.

              Overall, CK had a fantastic game. I don't know what his final statline was, I just know he had the 3 inexcusable drops, 1 throwaway, and 1 pass of the mark... and about 3 more throws that made me say wow. Ponder, on the hand, had me say wow when he through that awful eephus pitch to Hankerson.

              Also, keep in mind about Ponder, he played the entire 2nd half and was able to get more reps, get more into a rhythm than anybody on the field. This is not to say that Ponder didn't do some things very well... but I think that given his physical limitations, any team that drafts Ponder is most likely thinking of him as a future backup, while anybody drafting CK is thinking of a possible franchise QB after a year+ of development and in the meantime, a possible wildcat-type of weapon.


              As for the Tebow comments-you said you would take Tebow over CK everytime. This despite the fact that CK has far better size, a far better arm, far better speed, far better release (which you cited as your reason for not liking him), and a far better Senior Bowl week and game.

              To start things off, you said all the QBs in the Senior Bowl would go in round 2 or higher... now I didn't have to respond to anything you said because you lost all credibility at that point and should have served as a warning to me and other readers to the oncoming spectacle of your car accident of a post... but what can I say... I can't resist. You think that ALL QBs in the Senior Bowl will be 2nd round picks or higher? WOW!

              Andy Dalton? Ricky Stanzi? Greg McElroy? OMG? At this point, even Ponder looks like a longshot to make round 2. Now, maybe if the league had as many QB needy teams as it does now and DIDN'T have likely 1st round picks like Newton, Mallett, Gabbert, and Locker... but you're thinking that along with those 4 QBs likely to be taken in round 1, that the other 5 QBs will be taken before round 3 as well? I'm not sure, but that might be a record... 9 QBs taken in the first 2 rounds. You're really gonna have a hard sell with that one with even the most casual fan.

              Comment


              • #22
                This is the "scouting report" I've compiled on Kapernick. I think I'm warming up to the guy because his accuracy is impressive but I'm not his biggest fan.

                The Good
                - Height isn't a problem (6'4 1/2)
                - Rocket arm, perhaps the best in his class
                - Accurate overall on all types of passes
                - Throws a very catchable ball
                - Good internal clock, doesn't take a lot of uneeded sacks
                - Mobile, will flash an impressive second gear in the open field
                - Keeps eyes downfield while on move
                - Clutch
                - Leader, winner
                - Ultra-productive career both passing and running
                - A strong senior year
                - Good coaching
                - Durable
                The Bad
                - "Gumby" body, needs to fill out his frame
                - Struggles in the red zone, turnover prone
                - Will stare down receivers, force some throws
                - Will throw across his body
                - Bit of a windup
                - Tends to hold the ball away from his body when running, prone to fumbling
                - May be a little too quick to hit checkdown, doesn't always go through progressions
                - Pistol offense
                Other
                - Four year starter, 50 games
                - Three straight years of 2000 yards passing, 1000 yards rushing, first to ever do so
                - 140 career touchdowns passing and rushing
                - Just under 14000 yards ot total offense
                - Defeated Bosie St to eliminate them from championship contention
                - Coached by ultra-experienced coach Chris Ault
                - Throws a 90+ mph fastball, drafted by Cubs in 43rd round
                Final Word
                Very interesting skillset coupled with one of the most productive careers for any college QB. Has the physical tools but the mental side is suspect.
                Games Watched
                at Hawaii (half), at Idaho (half), at Fresno St, vs Bosie St, vs Boston College
                Go Steelers!
                Go Vandals!

                Comment


                • #23
                  There are going to be a few coaches that catch on early and use parts or maybe entireties of some regular season games to develop their quarterbacks if the season goes to 18 games. There are going to be some throwaway games that can be used for this purpose while starters are rested.

                  Guys like Kaepernick could really do well getting the playing time they need in real game situations. I haven't watched him much because of the programming I get, but he has a lot to work with. Moreso than the second teir of prospects.

                  Now if Ponder had his arm strength...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by brasho View Post
                    Again showing your lack of football acumen? So you give CK credit for work ethic, size, and arm strength but knock him for a throwing motion that isn't any worse than Philip Rivers' was coming out of college? He had ZERO struggles in the pocket considering how poorly the North's OL routinedly blocked.

                    By my count CK threw 5 incompletions. He had 3 drops (including the beautiful seam he threw to TE McNeil that bounced off his hands for an INT), 1 throwaway, and 1 pass that was off the mark when Phill Taylor got nearly instant penetration and was in his face as he threw it.

                    When comparing Ponder and Kaeprnick's games, there really is no comparison. CK threw his outs with plenty of zip and right on target, Ponder's got there on target but were seriously lacking steam. Because of the rules of this game (only cover 3, or man off) the outs HAD to be there, I could have completed outs and I can't throw a ball more than 40 yards. Kapernick had several throws towards the hashes that traveled 20 yards or more that were dead on the money on a line. Ponder had one such throw (the TD to Kerley) in which he put a little oomph into it... but the absolute worst throw of the game?

                    The worst throw of the game happened to be the long completion Ponder through to Leonard Hankerson. Hankerson ran a go and Ponder through the ball nearly straight up in the air. Just the fact that Ponder through the ball when Hankerson had the DB at a deeper depth than he was and with a safety over the top was a poor decision. Then the trajectory of the throw, and the fact that it wsa underthrown by 10 yards made a bad decision worse. Yes, it turned out to be a long completion to Hankerson, but that was because of a great adjustment by the receiver and the fact that a LB couldn't get back on time nor the safety up in time. The pass should have been picked off, it was terrible.

                    You can't say the same thing about CK. On his actual INT, CK had a heavy rush from the edge and he stepped up in the pocket (the way a QB is supposed to and ran towards the line, started to run to his left when he got near the line, he opened up his shoulders (while running to his left) and threw a laser about 20 yards down the field that hit TE Mike McNeil in stride but it bounced off his hands for a pick. That was a fantastic play, just like when CK extended the play in his final play and threw a ball that was dropped near the sideline by Kendall Hunter.

                    Overall, CK had a fantastic game. I don't know what his final statline was, I just know he had the 3 inexcusable drops, 1 throwaway, and 1 pass of the mark... and about 3 more throws that made me say wow. Ponder, on the hand, had me say wow when he through that awful eephus pitch to Hankerson.

                    Also, keep in mind about Ponder, he played the entire 2nd half and was able to get more reps, get more into a rhythm than anybody on the field. This is not to say that Ponder didn't do some things very well... but I think that given his physical limitations, any team that drafts Ponder is most likely thinking of him as a future backup, while anybody drafting CK is thinking of a possible franchise QB after a year+ of development and in the meantime, a possible wildcat-type of weapon.


                    As for the Tebow comments-you said you would take Tebow over CK everytime. This despite the fact that CK has far better size, a far better arm, far better speed, far better release (which you cited as your reason for not liking him), and a far better Senior Bowl week and game.

                    To start things off, you said all the QBs in the Senior Bowl would go in round 2 or higher... now I didn't have to respond to anything you said because you lost all credibility at that point and should have served as a warning to me and other readers to the oncoming spectacle of your car accident of a post... but what can I say... I can't resist. You think that ALL QBs in the Senior Bowl will be 2nd round picks or higher? WOW!

                    Andy Dalton? Ricky Stanzi? Greg McElroy? OMG? At this point, even Ponder looks like a longshot to make round 2. Now, maybe if the league had as many QB needy teams as it does now and DIDN'T have likely 1st round picks like Newton, Mallett, Gabbert, and Locker... but you're thinking that along with those 4 QBs likely to be taken in round 1, that the other 5 QBs will be taken before round 3 as well? I'm not sure, but that might be a record... 9 QBs taken in the first 2 rounds. You're really gonna have a hard sell with that one with even the most casual fan.
                    The only completions he made were with no pressure. When the pocket got tight on him he struggled.

                    Your obession with CK is hideous. Dude is not that good...you waste too much time breaking down his game when it's very simple. Rivers release is still awkward and was coming out of NCSU but his throwing motion isn't that far off from your average QB. He is a stronger Bernie Kosar (high, off the side of the head) type throwing motion but still has a very quick release.

                    And regarding all Senior Bowl QBs being a 2nd rd pick or higher, of course your thinking would lead you to say that Dalton, Stanzi, McElroy, Ponder would be in the 2nd rd. I thought you'd have enough sense to place those guys in the "HIGHER" part of my statement and not the 2nd rd portion of it. Looks like I need to keep it much more simple for you as well...

                    I really don't know what's your obession with Colin is but it's all going to come to an end in April when he's taken like in rd 3 or something.

                    I've never even gotten your actual prediction on when he will be drafted. You defend your post like he's going to be the 1st QB taken but I'm going to assume you think he'll be drafted as a low rd 1 right?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Brasho, he's a faster version of Tebow with a little bit better throwing motion and a much stronger arm.

                      He's Vince Young 2.0 (with a tad bit better throwing motion and stronger arm)- What helped VY is playing at Texas vs top notch competition and winning the Rose Bowl.

                      VY should have never been a 1st rd pick and that's obvious several years later.

                      K.I.S.S

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        CK's pick didn't hit the WR in stride. It hit him in the hands, yes, but it was high and slightly behind. The WR had to jump to even have it hit his hands, and it was to his back shoulder where the DB was.

                        Still should have been caught, but let's not try and make it out like it was a perfect pass by CK.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by iowatreat54 View Post
                          CK's pick didn't hit the WR in stride. It hit him in the hands, yes, but it was high and slightly behind. The WR had to jump to even have it hit his hands, and it was to his back shoulder where the DB was.

                          Still should have been caught, but let's not try and make it out like it was a perfect pass by CK.
                          Thank you! The pic was both CK and the receivers fault.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Kaepernick's release is a little slow, and he needs to learn how to become a 5 step, drop back passer in the NFL. But he does have all the physical tools, and the thing I love about him is that when he gets outside the pocket to avoid the rush, he's still looking to throw (Aaron Rodgers-like).

                            I like the arm strength, accuracy, poise, pocket presence and athleticism. There are concerns, but I like him a lot more today than I did a week ago.

                            He's the number 2 QB on my board, and there really isn't anybody outside of him and Gabbert that I'd spend more than a 4th round pick on.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by 87Canes View Post
                              The only completions he made were with no pressure. When the pocket got tight on him he struggled.

                              Your obession with CK is hideous. Dude is not that good...you waste too much time breaking down his game when it's very simple. Rivers release is still awkward and was coming out of NCSU but his throwing motion isn't that far off from your average QB. He is a stronger Bernie Kosar (high, off the side of the head) type throwing motion but still has a very quick release.

                              And regarding all Senior Bowl QBs being a 2nd rd pick or higher, of course your thinking would lead you to say that Dalton, Stanzi, McElroy, Ponder would be in the 2nd rd. I thought you'd have enough sense to place those guys in the "HIGHER" part of my statement and not the 2nd rd portion of it. Looks like I need to keep it much more simple for you as well...

                              I really don't know what's your obession with Colin is but it's all going to come to an end in April when he's taken like in rd 3 or something.

                              I've never even gotten your actual prediction on when he will be drafted. You defend your post like he's going to be the 1st QB taken but I'm going to assume you think he'll be drafted as a low rd 1 right?
                              You've never gotten my actual prediction of where CK would be drafted? I've only stated numerous times that he would go top 64 and stated as recently as yesterday that I expect him to fall somewhere close to where his NFL comparable did (Randall Cunningham #37) give or take 10-15 spots.

                              What is my obsession with CK? Nothing, I just see that he clearly has a ton of talent and state it as such only to see people come back with unintelligible reasons why he won't be successful despite the fact that I've given far more evidence and far more compelling arguments as to why he will be a success. Facts are facts, great arm, great mobility, great size, great work ethic, bad (but not as bad as former first rounders Leftwich and Tebow) release.



                              BTW, when the pressure got tight on CK he struggled? He had 337 lb Phil Taylor in his face on the one bad throw he made and the other times he got pressure, he escaped and made a nice throw (like when he stepped up underneath Brooks Reed and delivered a laser beam downfield).

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by 87Canes View Post
                                Brasho, he's a faster version of Tebow with a little bit better throwing motion and a much stronger arm.

                                He's Vince Young 2.0 (with a tad bit better throwing motion and stronger arm)- What helped VY is playing at Texas vs top notch competition and winning the Rose Bowl.

                                VY should have never been a 1st rd pick and that's obvious several years later.

                                K.I.S.S
                                Right, telling me to keep it simple and then calling me stupid... classy. Vince Young as a player has been excellent in case you've been in outerspace the past few years, it's Vince Young the person and teammate is where he is lacking.... besides that, hindsight is 20/20 my friend. By everybody with a brain's account at that time, VY should have been a 1st round pick.... if teams could redraft from that year, he would still be a 1st round pick, his onfield production has proven that much.

                                I can guarantee you CK doesn't score a 5 on his Wonderlic nor will he have a nervous breakdown and hissy fits the way VY has been know to do. VY has been a baby since losing the Heisman to Reggie Bush. All CK has done is go out and state that he needs to prove himself and then he has done that.

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