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  • #46
    Originally posted by Ness View Post
    Where did I say that any player couldn't do what Derek Smith accomplished? I said he was responsible for having us win the game. And it's the truth. You're dancing around the point.
    Saying he was responsible for the win is mind numbingly dumb. A good defensive call was responsible for that play.. Andy Lee consistently putting them in bad field position or Trent Dilfer having a randomly good game or Neil Rackers blowing a chip shot FG were all responsible for winning that game.

    Yes I did read what you said, but it wasn't of any significant importance to the conversation, so I ignored it. It still doesn't excuse the fact that Brandon Moore was very unimpressive this past season. Not only in preseason, but in the regular season as well when he came in. It was very apparent especially in the Buccaneers game when Derek Smith went out and Moore took over his position. He still blew assignments and drew up penalties. Whatever success that Moore had last season, it's clearly gone. He's not a high motor player, he tires out easily, and has hot and cold games to go along with bonehead mistakes. Smith doesn't do that. You say that I support Smith, but I already told you that he's been bad at tackling. Just not blowing assignments. Moore has been bad at both. So your examples don't support Moore's case in the slightest. Apparently, you didn't even read what I said.
    Derek Smith.. he got beat in coverage .. he whiffed on tackles/sacks .. he got blew up by a QB .. he got bulldozed by running backs ..
    he ran into his own players .. If that's not "blowing assignments" then I don't know how you can't say it wasn't just as bad if not worse. He was AWFUL last season.. not just in tackles but in ever facet of the game. And he did that all in the regular season.. and it wasn't until week friggin 10 that he saw reduced play in favor of Jeff Ulbrich(who I must say looked like the solid mad bomber he was 3 years ago before he tore his bicep or tricep or w/e he tore).

    And considering Brandon Moore didn't get any significant time in the 3-4 at any point in the season.. I still have no idea where you get this idea that he lost what he had the past 2 seasons or he was blowing assignments. He was benched clearly on the favoritism of an idiot coach who continually misuses his personnel talent. All of Moore's time came in that stupid nickel package as a friggin DE that didn't work all season yet Nolan insisted on using it every game. If you're using that as a reason as to why he should have got benched for an ILB spot then you're being completely ridiculous. If you're saying he didn't play well as a friggin DE then well DUH! He's a friggin natural linebacker. And if not.. If you are saying he lost it for poor play in the 3-4 at the Ted position then I'd love to know what these blown assignments or bone headed mistakes were. Because I guarantee you between Moore and Smith.. Smith had a bad play ratio of about 10 to 1 on Moore.

    On a separate note, I find your logic, well...illogical. You're making wild assumptions on what's going to happen like you're psychic, yet the 2008 season hasn't even begun yet. We just hired Mike Martz, who you're already dismissing. As for this Browns offensive coordinator, I personally wasn't too impressed. It's only been one season, and from what I read he has no major experience in the NFL as an offensive coordinator. In my opinion, Derek Anderson helped make him shine more than anything. If Anderson was the superstar all along at quarterback, why did Charlie Frye start opening day?
    I'm dismissing Martz, because we are about as far away from fitting his system as you can get. And with Nolan on the hot seat.. he doesn't have any time to fully install it with the right personnel. We don't have the receivers for it. We don't have the line to block for it. And we don't have a shifty finesse back to spread all over the field for it. On the other hand.. Chudzinski's offense fits exactly what our personnel is. We have the power back for it. We have the game breaking TE for it. And we have the possession receivers for it. It's the same system Marty Schottenheimer and Cam Cameron ran in San Diego.. in which Chudzinski was on staff as the TE coach for so he's got a great lineage of running it. And as far as Derek Anderson goes.. I don't think its exactly a coincident that he looked fairly mediocre before Chudzinski came along and even in the Pro Bowl he looked pretty terrible. But under Chudzinski he's looked like a bona fide NFL starting QB. But you're right on the experience thing.. that's the only thing that really worries me about him. But if it came between him, McDaniels, and Garrett.. which I'm sure it will next year because I'm sure York will want get a young offensive minded head coach then I'd take Chudzinski easily over the other 2. And if experience is all you're looking for.. I wouldn't mind Marty Schottenheimer as head coach for next year either.



    Also.. to add to the whole Briggs subject. I think it would be terrible to sign him for both financial and system reasons. First off.. having that much money invested into 2 inside linebackers who do mostly the same things would be downright ********. Second.. he doesn't fit the Ted role. He'd be better suited for Willis' Mike role of a sideline to sideline guy. I'd rather invest money elsewhere in the off-season and go with either Ulbrich or Moore who are both downhill guys and fit the role better.

    Comment


    • #47
      I'm actually a bit disgusted with how this propaganda continues to fester on this board about "nolan players". The fact is that the player labeled as "nolan guys" are just better players at that time than most of the trumped up, over-idealized backup players fans somehow think are amazing. HOW is Smith a Nolan player? Nolan gave Moore and Ulbrich extensions long before he signed Smith to only 3 years. He benched Smith halfway through 2006 in favor of Moore. Smith didn't even have a job until Moore stunk it up in the preseason and he clearly lost it to Ulbrich by season's end. The fact is that despite his lack of playmaking, he atleast makes the tackle, if even a few yards too late, and he was consistent.

      The reason is simple. Moore played MLB in 2005 for the most part and was extended not knowing what MLB Smith would do. In 2006 he played Mike(RILB) spot and showed good pass rushing technique from it. By mid 2006 when we caved back into a 4-3 with space eating DTs, he shined as a chase tackler and interior pass rusher. But in 2007 we drafted Willis at Mike and Moore was switched to Ted. Now he's got bigger blockers and different duties. A Ted has to attack and plug holes on the strong side and Moore missed tackles time after time. Who cares if he was 'in the hole', he missed the chance to stuff the play over and over again. Offenses blocked Lawson, doubled up to stop the DL and let Moore miss the tackle and let their RB easily reach the 2nd level time and again.

      Moore basically showed he can't play the run at a 'Ted' LILB. So Smith, a guy who at least makes the tackle, took over. Moore went on to play a lot more special teams and Ulbrich eventually proved to be a better attacking 'Ted'.
      let me guess.. either DraconisRex or TheWiz? BACKFIELD PENETRATIONS WOOHOO DEREK SMITH!

      Saying Smith "at least makes the tackle" instantly kills any credibility this person has. Along with saying Moore missed tackle after tackle.. he missed 2 tackles in the pre-season before getting benched. THATS IT. PLLLLLLLLLLEASE show me any example where he was missing tackles in the regular season. 2005 2006 or 2007.. doesn't matter.

      BTW LMAO for going on the Niners board and asking them for help.. truly showing you don't know what you're talking about.
      Last edited by papa burgundy; 02-22-2008, 09:57 PM.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by papa burgundy View Post
        let me guess.. either DraconisRex or TheWiz? BACKFIELD PENETRATIONS WOOHOO DEREK SMITH!

        Saying Smith "at least makes the tackle" instantly kills any credibility this person has. Along with saying Moore missed tackle after tackle.. he missed 2 tackles in the pre-season before getting benched. THATS IT. PLLLLLLLLLLEASE show me any example where he was missing tackles in the regular season. 2005 2006 or 2007.. doesn't matter.

        BTW LMAO for going on the Niners board and asking them for help.. truly showing you don't know what you're talking about.
        But Moore doesn't make the tackle and blows assignments. Logically you would want someone that does something bad instead of doing multiple things bad. In other words, Moore. I don't see the creditability is killed, just because you're willing to dismiss it, despite the fact that evidence is clearly being given. "Show you an example"? I don't have official games. How can I show you? I can only make my statement while acquiring the most evidence efficiently. If that means asking for help from others to only prove my point further, that's what I shall do. It's the same as a college student seeking quotes from other sources to verify their claims for a research paper. I'm doing the logical thing. Using evidence to support my statements. It's quite normal. You can "laugh" all you want, but you apparently seem to be amusing yourself, which ironically I find funny.
        Last edited by Ness; 02-23-2008, 01:39 AM.

        "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
        -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
        Originally posted by Borat
        Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by papa burgundy View Post
          Saying he was responsible for the win is mind numbingly dumb. A good defensive call was responsible for that play.. Andy Lee consistently putting them in bad field position or Trent Dilfer having a randomly good game or Neil Rackers blowing a chip shot FG were all responsible for winning that game.
          Well that's obvious. Football is a team sport. Derek Smith helped the football team on that final play. He helped when the game. Period. Again, you're dancing around the point that Derek Smith helped win the game.

          Derek Smith.. he got beat in coverage .. he whiffed on tackles/sacks .. he got blew up by a QB .. he got bulldozed by running backs ..
          he ran into his own players .. If that's not "blowing assignments" then I don't know how you can't say it wasn't just as bad if not worse. He was AWFUL last season.. not just in tackles but in ever facet of the game. And he did that all in the regular season.. and it wasn't until week friggin 10 that he saw reduced play in favor of Jeff Ulbrich(who I must say looked like the solid mad bomber he was 3 years ago before he tore his bicep or tricep or w/e he tore).

          And considering Brandon Moore didn't get any significant time in the 3-4 at any point in the season.. I still have no idea where you get this idea that he lost what he had the past 2 seasons or he was blowing assignments. He was benched clearly on the favoritism of an idiot coach who continually misuses his personnel talent. All of Moore's time came in that stupid nickel package as a friggin DE that didn't work all season yet Nolan insisted on using it every game. If you're using that as a reason as to why he should have got benched for an ILB spot then you're being completely ridiculous. If you're saying he didn't play well as a friggin DE then well DUH! He's a friggin natural linebacker. And if not.. If you are saying he lost it for poor play in the 3-4 at the Ted position then I'd love to know what these blown assignments or bone headed mistakes were. Because I guarantee you between Moore and Smith.. Smith had a bad play ratio of about 10 to 1 on Moore.
          The point is already proven from the other member's quote I just displayed. If you want the technical specs about it. Not to mention there's a topic on the forum I started about this discussion and the majority of the members favors my point over yours. And didn't Derek Smith get replaced in the Buccaneers game and Brandon Moore came in at his position and kept giving up the middle to the tight end? That was either him or Patrick Willis. Actually he was replacing Derek Smith a lot in the second half of games down the stretch of the season. He still didn't do anything special.

          I'm dismissing Martz, because we are about as far away from fitting his system as you can get. And with Nolan on the hot seat.. he doesn't have any time to fully install it with the right personnel. We don't have the receivers for it. We don't have the line to block for it. And we don't have a shifty finesse back to spread all over the field for it. On the other hand.. Chudzinski's offense fits exactly what our personnel is. We have the power back for it. We have the game breaking TE for it. And we have the possession receivers for it. It's the same system Marty Schottenheimer and Cam Cameron ran in San Diego.. in which Chudzinski was on staff as the TE coach for so he's got a great lineage of running it. And as far as Derek Anderson goes.. I don't think its exactly a coincident that he looked fairly mediocre before Chudzinski came along and even in the Pro Bowl he looked pretty terrible. But under Chudzinski he's looked like a bona fide NFL starting QB. But you're right on the experience thing.. that's the only thing that really worries me about him. But if it came between him, McDaniels, and Garrett.. which I'm sure it will next year because I'm sure York will want get a young offensive minded head coach then I'd take Chudzinski easily over the other 2. And if experience is all you're looking for.. I wouldn't mind Marty Schottenheimer as head coach for next year either.
          The season, preseason, training camp, the draft, and even free agency has yet to begin. You're making wild assumptions that you hope will come true. Which is again, why I find it illogical. It's just about as valid as me saying Kevin Gilbride will be our next head coach...despite the fact that he received an extension.
          Last edited by Ness; 02-22-2008, 11:14 PM.

          "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
          -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
          Originally posted by Borat
          Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Jay View Post
            Hmmmmmm.... barely enforcing rules... then poof... decide to enforce them... wonder where I've heard that one...
            Translation: "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, my team got caught cheating and I don't want to admit that it was wrong or it diminishes their accomplishments. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"


            The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

            If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

            <Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
            <Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge

            Comment


            • #51
              Im totally OK with the league taking a draft pick away from the 9ers as long as its the same one they traded to the Patriots last year. :)

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Ness View Post

                The point is already proven from the other member's quote I just displayed. If you want the technical specs about it. Not to mention there's a topic on the forum I started about this discussion and the majority of the members favors my point over yours. And didn't Derek Smith get replaced in the Buccaneers game and Brandon Moore came in at his position and kept giving up the middle to the tight end? That was either him or Patrick Willis. Actually he was replacing Derek Smith a lot in the second half of games down the stretch of the season. He still didn't do anything special.
                OH! The Wiz said it! So it MUST be true! The Wiz is teh GOSPEL! Nevermind the fact that he said Smith was put in because he "made the tackles".. which even you disagreed with earlier in this thread. You know what would be a good idea? If you actually watched the games.. especially the Bucs game where we were getting gashed by the TEs in the 1st half when Derek Smith was in there. Or that Brandon Moore wasn't even on the field for the most part of the second half. But its funny that you bring up Moore in coverage, because I agree that he was pretty bad at it last year when he played. BUT.. Derek Smith was arguably worse. I can remember 3 specific plays off the top of my head where he got beat. Once against the Steelers where he either bit hard on a PA fake or blew his assignment(SHOCK). Either way it was pretty obvious it was his man because he dove like a ****** to try to bat the ball away. Another was when he basically jammed himself out of a play on a Jeremy Shockey TD. That was funny. And finally against the Bengals where he got beat for a 20 yard or so gash by Daniel Coats(who?) where Derek Smith didn't even look like he was trying to cover him. He just ran next to him like a buffoon. And thats just in coverage. Nevermind him whiffing on Matt Leinart or Marc Bulger or getting stiff armed by Tarvaris Jackson. The fact is... Derek Smith played in more than enough games to show he couldn't tackle or cover to save his life and the fact that it took 10 games for him to get reduced playing.. not even benching .. its ******* ridiculous. Mike Nolan was clearly playing favorites because Brandon Moore, who lost his job after 2 pre-season games, never had a CHANCE to earn his spot back. And the fact that Mike Nolan is willing to spend another 20 mil Guaranteed on a player who doesn't even fit the spot he'd end up playing when there are 2 players who could just as easily fill the role(Ulbrich and Moore) just proves at how big of a moron he is and why I assume(and will be justly vindicated on after the season) that Nolan will be canned just like he should be. And hopefully we can get a headcoach next season who knows what hes doing.. Chudzinski or whomever.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Ness View Post
                  But Moore doesn't make the tackle and blows assignments. Logically you would want someone that does something bad instead of doing multiple things bad. In other words, Moore. I don't see the creditability is killed, just because you're willing to dismiss it, despite the fact that evidence is clearly being given. "Show you an example"? I don't have official games. How can I show you? I can only make my statement while acquiring the most evidence efficiently. If that means asking for help from others to only prove my point further, that's what I shall do. It's the same as a college student seeking quotes from other sources to verify their claims for a research paper. I'm doing the logical thing. Using evidence to support my statements. It's quite normal. You can "laugh" all you want, but you apparently seem to be amusing yourself, which ironically I find funny.
                  It sounds more like a college student who didn't do his own research and needed to cheat off of someone else's papers to get the answers. You lack any specific incidences where Moore missed tackles or blew his assignments.. so HEY lets see if any of these other people can remember any.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by papa burgundy View Post
                    OH! The Wiz said it! So it MUST be true! The Wiz is teh GOSPEL! Nevermind the fact that he said Smith was put in because he "made the tackles".. which even you disagreed with earlier in this thread. You know what would be a good idea? If you actually watched the games.. especially the Bucs game where we were getting gashed by the TEs in the 1st half when Derek Smith was in there. Or that Brandon Moore wasn't even on the field for the most part of the second half. But its funny that you bring up Moore in coverage, because I agree that he was pretty bad at it last year when he played. BUT.. Derek Smith was arguably worse. I can remember 3 specific plays off the top of my head where he got beat. Once against the Steelers where he either bit hard on a PA fake or blew his assignment(SHOCK). Either way it was pretty obvious it was his man because he dove like a ****** to try to bat the ball away. Another was when he basically jammed himself out of a play on a Jeremy Shockey TD. That was funny. And finally against the Bengals where he got beat for a 20 yard or so gash by Daniel Coats(who?) where Derek Smith didn't even look like he was trying to cover him. He just ran next to him like a buffoon. And thats just in coverage. Nevermind him whiffing on Matt Leinart or Marc Bulger or getting stiff armed by Tarvaris Jackson. The fact is... Derek Smith played in more than enough games to show he couldn't tackle or cover to save his life and the fact that it took 10 games for him to get reduced playing.. not even benching .. its ******* ridiculous. Mike Nolan was clearly playing favorites because Brandon Moore, who lost his job after 2 pre-season games, never had a CHANCE to earn his spot back. And the fact that Mike Nolan is willing to spend another 20 mil Guaranteed on a player who doesn't even fit the spot he'd end up playing when there are 2 players who could just as easily fill the role(Ulbrich and Moore) just proves at how big of a moron he is and why I assume(and will be justly vindicated on after the season) that Nolan will be canned just like he should be. And hopefully we can get a headcoach next season who knows what hes doing.. Chudzinski or whomever.
                    You're twisting what I'm saying. I said Derek Smith was bad at tackling, but he was still in the position most of the time. Usually getting dragged several yards instead of trying to tackle air, most of the time. I did watch the games. Brandon Moore was not effective when he was put in. Bottom line. When he took over the ted position in certain instances. He couldn't tackle due to the lack of bigger bodies up front. Which is why he did well in the 4-3. He had those extra bodies up front to prevent the runningback from getting to the next level, and having better angles to tackle with. You're advocating that I believe that Derek Smith was great, which clearly isn't the case. I just disgree with you in the aspect that Derek Smith receiving the starting role at the beginning of the season wasn't justified, and I think it was. I guess everyone else has to watch the games as well, since most agree with my point. Didn't Moore even have a chance at OLB when Lawson went down? Did he play? I seriously don't remember.
                    Last edited by Ness; 02-23-2008, 03:14 AM.

                    "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                    -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                    Originally posted by Borat
                    Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by papa burgundy View Post
                      It sounds more like a college student who didn't do his own research and needed to cheat off of someone else's papers to get the answers. You lack any specific incidences where Moore missed tackles or blew his assignments.. so HEY lets see if any of these other people can remember any.
                      I recall him missing tackles. I don't know how much more specific I can be. I presented the evidence of why Brandon Moore was not effective, and used other evidence similar to my own to back up my claims. How is that cheating? I don't remember specific names of players. I just remember him missing tackles. The guy just can't play in the 3-4. He had two bad preseason games with the starting unit and was demoted. He didn't do anything when he had the chance to play Ted linebacker. He wasn't just in nickel packages all the time.
                      Last edited by Ness; 02-23-2008, 03:16 AM.

                      "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                      -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                      Originally posted by Borat
                      Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Ness View Post
                        I remember him missing tackles. I don't know how much more specific I can be. I presented the evidence of why Brandon Moore was not effective, and used other evidence similar to my own to back up my claims. How is that cheating? I don't remember specific names of players. I just remember him missing tackles.
                        I was asking for maybe specific games? Maybe specific players he whiffed on? Because the only time I clearly remember Moore missing tackles .. whiffing badly .. was in those first 2 pre-season games where he whiffed on Travis Henry and against Lamont Jordan(or one of those Raiders RBs) in the next pre-season game on the first or second drive. I honestly think you're confusing Moore with Ulbrich though... in the regular season atleast. Because Ulbrich was the one who replaced Smith at the Ted late in the season. Like I said.. Moore never got an honest chance to prove himself in the regular season. He was stuck at that nickel package end. Which I still find incredibly weird that a guy can go from as dominant as he was that second half of the season .. 4-3 or not .. to the back of the depth chart after 2 pre-season games with about 20 snaps in both games. Especially for a guy who was as bad as Derek Smith was the season before and the rest of the season after. And now with Nolan going after Briggs -who will command 20 mil guaranteed- at mid-season and what seems like when FA starts.. It leads me to wonder if Brandon Moore ****** Nolan's wife or pissed in his car Charles Haley style or something.

                        This goes for Keith Lewis getting benched in favor of Mark Roman this year too. Mark Roman wasn't nearly as bad as Derek Smith but people talked about Keith Lewis being bad in coverage, but anytime I asked anybody they never actually gave me any examples of when he was doing bad in coverage. They just gave me that ******** line of "Nolan is the coach and you're not he knows what he's doing!"(which his 16-32 record clearly shows). The only time I remember him getting beat badly was when he blew his assignment on a Donald Driver TD. Other than that he was a spark plug and a play maker just like Moore who got reduced to nothing more than Special Teams duty. I'm just sick of Nolan benching/cutting players who actually had an impact for no apparent reason in favor of these safe "Nolan Guys". Honestly.. why the **** is Zak Keasey on the roster? Other than he's a got good character? Or why Taylor Jacobs actually started the season on the active roster? Or Bryan Gilmore? Seriously? Or his refusal to shake up the O-Line early in the season when it was clear something had to be done and we had a player who we had spent a high draft pick on ready and waiting. It's like Jesus... I think Nolan wants to lose. All I can hope for is for Nolan to get canned after the season when he goes 4-12. But knowing my luck he'll go 10-6 and make it into the playoffs on a fluke and get a contract extension and throw a party and re-sign Derek Smith and Kwame Harris and Taylor Jacobs and Bryan Gilmore and start them all for the next 15 years.

                        PS.. getting the offcial Niners forum on your side barely proves anything. I could go to the 49erholics board or NinerCapHell and ask the same question and I'm 100% sure they would side with me on this. It wouldn't make a difference on this either.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          would be funny if we have a 30 round draft
                          just like old times lol

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Dam8610 View Post
                            Translation: "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, my team got caught cheating and I don't want to admit that it was wrong or it diminishes their accomplishments. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"
                            Translation: I'm a Colts fan and that's the only reason I care. Nevermind the facts.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Welcome to the draft pick losers world Niners.

                              Thanks to darnik44two for the sig

                              Dream Pats Draft:
                              1. Vernon Gholston, LB, tOSU
                              2. Adarious Bowman, WR, Ok St
                              3a. Charles Godfrey, CB, Iowa
                              3b. Kevin Smith, RB, UCF
                              4. Peyton Hillis, RB, Ark
                              5. Jermichael Finley, TE, Texas
                              6. Brian Witherspoon, CB, Stillman
                              7. Pierre Garcon, WR, Mt Union

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                so whats the chance of this happening

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