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Jimmy Johnson: I videotaped signals

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  • #31
    Ancient antics
    By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports
    September 13, 2007

    Jason Cole
    Yahoo! Sports
    Hall of Fame center Jim Langer couldn't help but laugh when asked about the videotape cheating scandal involving the New England Patriots.

    "That's like the week before we played Washington in the Super Bowl," Langer said, recalling a moment from the Miami Dolphins' undefeated season in 1972. "We were chasing the spies (Redskins coach) George Allen sent out of the bushes all week."

    While it's hard not to take the crime and punishment of Patriots coach Bill Belichick seriously NFL Commissioner Roger " Kenesaw" Goodell docked Belichick $500,000, the Patriots another $250,000 and either a first-round pick (if the team makes the playoffs) or a second- and third-rounder (if they don't) the history of cheating in the NFL is long.

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    Some of the stories are downright funny. In the 1960s, Oakland Raiders coach-and-later-general managing partner Al Davis once pretended to be a reporter after a game and interviewed a player from the opposing team about the plays his team had used successfully against the Raiders.

    Davis was involved in another odd story in the 1970s. The Dolphins consistently had problems against the Raiders at the time. It got to the point one time during a halftime session when the coaches were going over the adjustments that Dolphins coach Don Shula screamed at one of the air conditioning vents: "Al, I know you have bugs in here."

    Langer laughed at that memory, too.

    "With (Davis), you could believe anything might happen," said Langer, who played with the Dolphins from 1970-79.

    More recently, the San Diego Chargers increased their security several years ago at a hill overlooking the practice field at the team facility during weeks when they played the Denver Broncos. Why? It turns out Broncos coach Mike Shanahan had been hiring spies to videotape the Chargers practices. The NFL had been aware of it for several years (at least one NFL official had seen one of the tapes), but didn't step in because it was considered a team issue.

    Then there are the other rumors, such as the one for years that the New York teams open the stadium tunnel door on exceptionally windy days to either help or hurt potential field goals and kickoffs depending on the situation. There's a similar urban legend about the air conditioning being turned on or off at different times in Minnesota. None of that has ever been proved.

    In 1997, New England was at the heart of a delicious bit of espionage. The Patriots had signed fullback Keith Byars that season after he'd been cut by the Dolphins. New England then played Miami in the final game of the season, setting up a rematch in the first-round of the playoffs the following weekend.

    Byars taught the Patriots defense all of the Dolphins' audibles. During the game, linebacker Ted Johnson intercepted Dan Marino's slant pass and returned it for a touchdown as part of a 17-3 victory. Beyond that, the Patriots defense even communicated to each other using the Dolphins offensive signals as cues.

    "They were using our signals all game," former Dolphins running back Bernie Parmalee said at the time.

    So that gets us to the matter of Belichick and his videotaping. In short, it's wrong and Belichick was warned about it before. Do he and the Patriots deserve the punishment? Yes, he blatantly violated the league rules.

    Belichick also deserves to be punished for doing it unnecessarily. In other words, he was stupid and that's something rarely ever said or written about Belichick. Right now, the Patriots are better than the Jets, by a good margin. You save this type of cheating for moments when it really matters. Moreover, video technology is good enough these days that the Patriots could have taped the signals in a far less obvious way, including from owner Bob Kraft's luxury box.

    That said, what Belichick did is classic gamesmanship. No matter the sport, someone's always looking for the extra edge. It's no different than in baseball when coaches try to steal signs or when batters wipe out the backline of the batter's box so they can set up a couple of inches deeper against hard throwers.

    It's no different than putting in a slick football for a critical moment at the end of a game when a team is threatening to score a field goal, but the holder has the ball slip through his fingers.

    Not that such a thing has ever happened.

    It's no different than a lot of what goes on to gain an advantage in sports. So for all of the high-minded people who are making a big deal about whether this impacts Belichick's credentials to one day go to the Hall of Fame or if it has some residual effect on people who have coached for him, such as Eric Mangini of the Jets or Charlie Weis of Notre Dame, the answer is no.

    It's just part of the game.
    A team other than the Patriots filming practices!?!?! THE NFL HAS THE TAPES?!?!? DID THEY DESTROY THEM?!?!? OH NOES!

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Jay View Post
      Seems pretty hypocritical to me to call the Patriots cheaters and question the validity of their Super Bowls and not do the same to the Cowboys. I'm not seeing any difference whatsoever in the two actions.
      Well, the main difference here is Jimmy Johnson is saying he did that, whereas there's actually proof that the Patriots did it. People admit to crimes on various media outlets often. Does that mean the police can go and arrest those people? No. Why? Because there's no proof that what they said is true. Innocent until proven guilty, and thus far, only the Patriots have been proven guilty.


      The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

      If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

      <Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
      <Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Dam8610 View Post
        Well, the main difference here is Jimmy Johnson is saying he did that, whereas there's actually proof that the Patriots did it. People admit to crimes on various media outlets often. Does that mean the police can go and arrest those people? No. Why? Because there's no proof that what they said is true. Innocent until proven guilty, and thus far, only the Patriots have been proven guilty.
        HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

        Wait let me catch my breath.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

        That is the dumbest thing I have read. EVER. It proves your motive. I mean really. It's just too bad there isn't a cute little word like "homer" to throw out there when people say ridiculous **** like that because of they are talking about "Team A" who happen to be the biggest rival of their "Team B."

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Jay View Post
          A team other than the Patriots filming practices!?!?! THE NFL HAS THE TAPES?!?!? DID THEY DESTROY THEM?!?!? OH NOES!
          Funny you should mention that. To quote Peyton Manning in an interview published in SI's 2007 NFL preview edition, "I constantly think about teams stealing our signals. I know New England does when we're up there. I know Mike Shanahan has tried."


          The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

          If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

          <Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
          <Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge

          Comment


          • #35
            And he knows the best signal stealer in the league is on his sidelines.

            Comment


            • #36
              You're the only one that keeps bringing this ******** up. Just cause others cheated doesn't make it right for the Patriots to cheat.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Jay View Post
                HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

                Wait let me catch my breath.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

                That is the dumbest thing I have read. EVER. It proves your motive. I mean really. It's just too bad there isn't a cute little word like "homer" to throw out there when people say ridiculous **** like that because of they are talking about "Team A" who happen to be the biggest rival of their "Team B."
                There's no proof of those claims, just claims made by a person who is under no obligation whatsoever to tell the truth. The difference here is there was proof of the Patriots cheating, and afterwards, admittance in an investigation (during which Belichick had plenty of motive to be truthful) that taping had been going on since 2000.


                The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

                If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

                <Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
                <Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by TitanHope View Post
                  It may not be fair, but it's not like cheaters can ask for fairness or for non-hypocritical views. You got caught cheating, and you claim that people are being too harsh? Gimme a break...
                  These are my sentiments too. Just because other people have cheated in the past does not mean cheating is acceptable. That is not even remotely decent logic.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    why are u so desperate to clear the pats name? get over it


                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Jay View Post
                      And he knows the best signal stealer in the league is on his sidelines.
                      So you're staying you still don't understand the difference between guesswork and study?


                      The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

                      If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

                      <Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
                      <Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Then by your definition, Michael Vick is innocent, because he decided to tell everyone he did it and he wasn't in fact found guilty in a court of law by a judge and jury. Maybe he only took a plea agreement because he was afraid all his friends would turn on him? GUESS WE'LL NEVER KNOW!

                        By admitting that he did it, if the NFL wanted to, they could go back and investigate everything that Jimmy Johnson said, and you know it. He said they did it. I just took an enormous dump about two hours ago. BUT THERE'S NO PROOF BECAUSE I FLUSHED THE TOILET!

                        That's how ridiculous you sound. The man said he did it. HE DID IT. It's that simple. The San Diego Chargers CAUGHT the Denver Broncos video taping their practice, PRODUCED TAPES, and the NFL told them to go deal with it themselves.

                        And none of this bothers you, because it's not the Patriots. Stealing signals has never been the issue. NEVER. Because if it was, there would be moral outrage over every method of doing so. It's that simple. The issue has always been that everyone knows that "Team A" (gotta resort back to your terms) is the New England Patriots, and that their smug coach has always been a jerk that no one likes.

                        THAT is the issue, and that much has been exposed. That is why people hang their hat on "but they didn't get caught!" The Jets and Broncos got caught and no one cared, and there was a time when the Patriots were getting caught and no one cared. It's the same reason why no one cares about the 49ers tampering issue and no one wanted to check into the PA system at the RCA dome.

                        And most importantly, it's the same reason why people like you are defending other teams guilty of the same acts as the Patriots.

                        People want to know why I still care, well, I'll tell you why. No one has had to deal with the type of crap that Pats fans have had to deal with this year before, and it was over something that is being proven to have been extremely commonplace in the NFL. PROVEN. That's fine, we got caught, they gave us a speeding ticket, took away our license for a few months because of a repeated pattern of speeding tickets, life goes on. That's the way it should have been. No one is going to call you a criminal because you got a few speeding tickets.

                        This was a speeding ticket. Nothing more, nothing less. The NFL over-reacted to the media storm that brews every time there is a New York vs Boston incident and created this hysteria. Much like I am starting to think the league is over-reacting to people like Pacman Jones and Odell Thurman. This was boys being boys, Pops catching you in the act and saying "don't let me catch you drinking my beer again."

                        And I don't say that because that's what I want it to be, it's because that's exactly what it is. No one cares about stealing signals. No one. If they did, they would care about every possible way it could be done, and that's all there is to it.

                        Your team employs one of the best in the business, and I have absolutely no problem with that. I am 100% positive that every team in the league watches video of Peyton Manning and Tom Brady making changes at the line the week before they play so they can possibly make the proper adjustments when they see it in game. Don't see much of a difference there. Hell, the Dolphins even buy tape of Brady's cadences.

                        Boys will be boys...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Dam8610 View Post
                          So you're staying you still don't understand the difference between guesswork and study?
                          It's all guesswork. Unless you are on the other sideline getting the play from the coach, you don't know if your "interpretation" of the sign is right. No difference whatsoever.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ChargerCohen View Post
                            These are my sentiments too. Just because other people have cheated in the past does not mean cheating is acceptable. That is not even remotely decent logic.
                            But there is a huge difference. I'm not in court trying to get out of a ticket because everyone else was speeding. I'm sending in a check with the fine and getting a ride to work for the next month while my license is suspended.

                            The Pats paid their penalty. No problems. My beef is with people acting like the Patriots are the only criminals here because they got caught. I believe we could use the Al Capone reference from the other day... everyone knew he was a murderer... you know the rest...

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Jay View Post
                              They broke rules that we can now officially say everyone broke. No more proof is needed, we have a Super Bowl winning coach that was a part of three organizations saying "everyone did it." That doesn't make it OK for anyone to do, but it does prove just how irrelevant it really is.
                              Wow, that's quite a blanket statement, especially using one man's word as your only proof. You have no proof that what he's saying is true, whereas proof has been there (before it was destroyed) that the Pats cheated. My question to you would be if the Colts did it, why would Bill Polian have banned cameras from the sidelines of the 2006 AFC Championship Game? Also, what's with the Patriots' Director of Football Research, a position no other team in the NFL has, who is involved in all Patriots football filming projects and has a direct line to Belichick every gameday?


                              The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

                              If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

                              <Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
                              <Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Jay View Post
                                It's all guesswork. Unless you are on the other sideline getting the play from the coach, you don't know if your "interpretation" of the sign is right. No difference whatsoever.
                                Please, quit feigning ignorance in an attempt to defend your team, it's annoying and it makes you look foolish. Studies have shown that uneducated guesswork is right about 22% of the time. Obviously a football coach is going to be able to make an educated guess, but it's still a guess, until you bring film in, where you can sync up calls to plays on the field, and, being an educated coach, figure out what each signal means fairly easily. Again, it's the difference between guesswork and study, the latter of which gives a definite competitive advantage.


                                The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

                                If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

                                <Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
                                <Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge

                                Comment

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