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Best Defense in 2008-09

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Splat420 View Post
    You don't have to have name players in the secondary when you have a DL like that I would take a great line and average CB's over great CB's and a average line.
    Well the regular season proved they did need some good CB's back there.
    They got hot at the right time, and that's cool, i'm not taking that away from them, but the people that expect the defense to play like they did in the playoffs all year are gonna be sadly disappointed.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Jughead10 View Post
      Joseph was put on IR in preaseason with "back spasms". Basically he sucked so bad that the Giants knew they were going to cut him after the 2007 season so they put him on IR with an injury that could be played through. Joseph didn't play a single down last season.
      Throughout his career he has seen significant playing time. Granted, he never set the world on fire, but certainly did play quite a bit throughout his career. I was saying that none of the Giants losses were big by themselves, but as a whole, it will affect the defense.
      Nanna Bryndís Hilmarsdóttir is a goddess

      Rest in Peace, themaninblack

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      • #78
        Originally posted by eaglesalltheway View Post
        Throughout his career he has seen significant playing time. Granted, he never set the world on fire, but certainly did play quite a bit throughout his career. I was saying that none of the Giants losses were big by themselves, but as a whole, it will affect the defense.
        Joseph only played because everyone and their mothers ahead of him was hurt. Seriously, losing him is a positive. Torbor and Mitchell only bought time for young guys like Kiwi, DeOzzie, blackburn and Wilk to get more refined. They were no better than the kids are now. Now gibril hurt because when used properly he can be a very good player, BUT he had to play out of position last season where he wasn't nearly as good.

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        • #79
          its gotta be the vikes ftw

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          • #80
            I'm not sure why everyone says "I want a great d-line and average DBs over great DBs and an average pass rush".

            It works the opposite way as well. A great set of DBs will buy your pass rush extra time.

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            • #81
              Also to add to what eaglesfan is saying, I'm not sure why everyone is for the Vikes having the best defense but everyone saying it is an outrageous claim when someone says the Giants. I'm pretty sure the Giants have a better D-Line than the Vikes, and they are about the same in the secondary with more promise going to the Vikes but it isn't that much of a difference.

              And before everyone jumps on me for saying the Giants have a better D-Line than the Vikes, the Vikes can stop the run. Thats it. The Giants can do both. Yes, Allen will help the Vikes in the pass rush department but if Jared Allen gets 15 and half sacks next year the Vikings will have 15 and half sacks total as a team it seems.

              Just saying it goes both ways. Everyone is saying the Vikes but they don't have much in the secondary either. I don't think either will be the best. I think the Vikings will lead again in rushing but get thrown all over. The Giants will be in the upper tier in total defense but not in the top 5.


              Silverback....still the best.

              +rep to Jakey for the sig

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              • #82
                Originally posted by eaglesfan_45 View Post
                I'm not sure why everyone says "I want a great d-line and average DBs over great DBs and an average pass rush".

                It works the opposite way as well. A great set of DBs will buy your pass rush extra time.
                Its not the same I don't care who your CB's are if you don't have a pass rush some one is going to get open.

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                • #83
                  If the 9ers offense hangs on to the ball for more than 10 minutes they have a chance to have atleast a top 10 defense
                  Originally posted by 49erNation85
                  I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by terribletowel39 View Post
                    Also to add to what eaglesfan is saying, I'm not sure why everyone is for the Vikes having the best defense but everyone saying it is an outrageous claim when someone says the Giants. I'm pretty sure the Giants have a better D-Line than the Vikes, and they are about the same in the secondary with more promise going to the Vikes but it isn't that much of a difference.

                    And before everyone jumps on me for saying the Giants have a better D-Line than the Vikes, the Vikes can stop the run. Thats it. The Giants can do both. Yes, Allen will help the Vikes in the pass rush department but if Jared Allen gets 15 and half sacks next year the Vikings will have 15 and half sacks total as a team it seems.

                    Just saying it goes both ways. Everyone is saying the Vikes but they don't have much in the secondary either. I don't think either will be the best. I think the Vikings will lead again in rushing but get thrown all over. The Giants will be in the upper tier in total defense but not in the top 5.
                    Antoine Winfield > Anything the Giants can throw out at corner
                    Madieu Williams, Darren Sharper > Anything the Giants can throw out at safety
                    Aaron Ross is a little more talented than Cedric Griffin, but not by a whole lot.

                    Kevin Williams brings the heat in pass situations as good as any DT. Jared Allen will be of great help, and their linebackers are just as good.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by MetSox17 View Post
                      All i ever hear about the Giants' is their pass rush, and never about their secondary. Kiwanuka and Tuck aren't gonna cover T.O when he's torching them for 150 again.
                      hahahaha. T.O. can get 300 recieving yards in each game in the regular season for all I care as long as we win the superbowl again. Try winning a playoff game this decade and then talk.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by MetSox17 View Post
                        Antoine Winfield > Anything the Giants can throw out at corner
                        Madieu Williams, Darren Sharper > Anything the Giants can throw out at safety
                        Aaron Ross is a little more talented than Cedric Griffin, but not by a whole lot.

                        Kevin Williams brings the heat in pass situations as good as any DT. Jared Allen will be of great help, and their linebackers are just as good.
                        I would argue that whole Antoine Winfield thing. He is a good run supporter but he isn't that much better than Ross if at all at covering folks. I'd even go as far to say I'd take Ross over Winfield.
                        And while the safety situation is true, it ain't by that much cuz the two the Vikings have aren't that good, only reason everyone thinks they are because the NFC North QB's throw them 4-5 INT's everytime they play them.

                        Giants D-Line still is better than the Vikings.


                        Silverback....still the best.

                        +rep to Jakey for the sig

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by terribletowel39
                          And before everyone jumps on me for saying the Giants have a better D-Line than the Vikes, the Vikes can stop the run. Thats it. The Giants can do both. Yes, Allen will help the Vikes in the pass rush department but if Jared Allen gets 15 and half sacks next year the Vikings will have 15 and half sacks total as a team it seems.
                          I don't know which line is better, the Giants have a much better group of DE's but the Vikings have a much better group of DT's along with a elite DE and 2 promising youngsters. When you sayy the Vikings D-line can stop the run but that is the only thing they can do you are over exagerating. Ray Edwards had 5 sacks(of 2nd year DEs only Mario Williams, Dumervil, Tamba Hali, and Darryl Tapp had more) last year and he didn't play 4 games do to suspension he was on his way to a 7-8 sack year which is good for a 2nd year player. Brian Robison had 4.5 sacks as a rookie DE the only other Rookie DE to have more sacks was Gaines Adams. Both of these youngsters will benefit from the presence of Jared Allen, don't be surprised if Ray Edwards racks up double digit sacks and has a break out year. Not to forget Erasmus James who if by a miracle can be healthy for any decent amount of time could provide a boost in the pass rush.

                          Also MetSox seemed to already address this but the Vikings do have a better secondary than the Giants.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Menardo75 View Post
                            If the 9ers offense hangs on to the ball for more than 10 minutes they have a chance to have atleast a top 10 defense
                            Agreed. If the niners didn't have a bottom three offense last year they would have been a pretty good defense. This year they are going to be even better with the addition of Justin Smith and the subtraction of Derrick Smith.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Crazy_Chris View Post
                              I don't know which line is better, the Giants have a much better group of DE's but the Vikings have a much better group of DT's along with a elite DE and 2 promising youngsters. When you sayy the Vikings D-line can stop the run but that is the only thing they can do you are over exagerating. Ray Edwards had 5 sacks(of 2nd year DEs only Mario Williams, Dumervil, Tamba Hali, and Darryl Tapp had more) last year and he didn't play 4 games do to suspension he was on his way to a 7-8 sack year which is good for a 2nd year player. Brian Robison had 4.5 sacks as a rookie DE the only other Rookie DE to have more sacks was Gaines Adams. Both of these youngsters will benefit from the presence of Jared Allen, don't be surprised if Ray Edwards racks up double digit sacks and has a break out year. Not to forget Erasmus James who if by a miracle can be healthy for any decent amount of time could provide a boost in the pass rush.

                              Also MetSox seemed to already address this but the Vikings do have a better secondary than the Giants.
                              Yea except I don't think that the Vikings have a MUCH better group of DT's over the Giants. The Giants still allowed less than a 100 yards on the ground at 97.7. While it's no 74 the Vikings allowed thats a smaller difference than 207 through the air for the Giants and 264 for the Vikes. I guess its just a matter of opinion. The Vikes did gain a valuable commidity over the off season, so we are gonna have to see how he pans out.


                              Silverback....still the best.

                              +rep to Jakey for the sig

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                              • #90
                                The Williams Wrecking crew is much better, you have to take what they accomplished in perspective. Kevin and Pat accomplished all that while being consistently double teamed. I'm pretty sure thats not something the Giants DT had to deal with very much at all due to having Osi and Strahan on the outside. Pat and Kevin Williams also should benefit from Jared Allen taking some of the double teams off of them.

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