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Sporting News: NFC Tight Ends

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  • #91
    Originally posted by SFbear View Post
    I'd also like to add that Ron Turner was absolutely terrible at utilizing our tight ends last year. Well actually Ron Turner is just a terrible offensive coordinator period.
    That's why comparing TEs is stupid. Each TE is doing different stuff within their respective systems. Some systems ask them to pass catch more, while others have them run block more. And some require the TE to do both.

    The hardest way to figure out all this is have access to the playbook, and be able to talk to the OC, and figure out the concepts he runs in his passing game, and what the TEs purpose is within that concept. Is he window dressing used to open up another route run by someone else. OR he is the one of the main guys in that concept, while other players are running the "window Dressing" routes.

    Once you factor in all that for each of the 32 systems, then watch film and figure out who is following that system to the best of their ability. Then the last step is look at the stats, and talk to the OC to see if those stats are par for his expectations in that system.

    It's actually a pain in the butt process, but that's the way to analyse these positions.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by PACKmanN View Post
      And, I really disagree with you saying his catching and blocking is better then the others. I would take the Giants, Cowboys, Redskins, Bears, Packers over Davis. I would rather want football players then projects.

      Why should they 49ers be so high, if Davis hasn't proven a thing?
      I didn't mean that the 49ers should be higher than the Giants, Cowboys, Redskins or Bears. I meant that the bears should be higher than the 49ers on that list and the niners should drop one spot.

      That said, I am not "hiding" his weaknesses when they have been talked about already and are really exaggerated to begin with. His route running is not that poor, he has occasional drops, but they are really not as big of a deal as Ness makes them seem. He is not even on the top 20 of the list of guys with drops in the NFC (lower than 2 other WR's on the 49ers). And, I do believe he is one of the best run blocking TE's in the game.

      You would take the Packers tight ends over davis? Ok, it doesn't get much homerish than that does it? You would take an undersized 27 year old Donald Lee who in five years in the league had one season comparable to Davis' second season in the league. And you would also take Desmond Clark or Greg Olson over Davis who haven't shown remotely close to the potential of Davis?

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by PACKmanN View Post
        you complain that the o-line is a terrible blocking unit, but you call Hostler an bonehead for leaving Davis in to block? I guess you want your QB killed.
        Yes because he better used as a target down the field. We didn't draft the guy so he could block all the time. That's what Billy Bajema is for. Duh. And a tight end isn't going to solve offensive line problems that consist of an entire unit of 5 players. That's ridiculous.

        "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
        -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
        Originally posted by Borat
        Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by no love View Post
          I didn't mean that the 49ers should be higher than the Giants, Cowboys, Redskins or Bears. I meant that the bears should be higher than the 49ers on that list and the niners should drop one spot.

          That said, I am not "hiding" his weaknesses when they have been talked about already and are really exaggerated to begin with. His route running is not that poor, he has occasional drops, but they are really not as big of a deal as Ness makes them seem. He is not even on the top 20 of the list of guys with drops in the NFC (lower than 2 other WR's on the 49ers). And, I do believe he is one of the best run blocking TE's in the game.

          You would take the Packers tight ends over davis? Ok, it doesn't get much homerish than that does it? You would take an undersized 27 year old Donald Lee who in five years in the league had one season comparable to Davis' second season in the league. And you would also take Desmond Clark or Greg Olson over Davis who haven't shown remotely close to the potential of Davis?
          LOL, your calling Donald Lee undersized? so what is Davis a midget? Davis is listed at 6'3 253 while Lee is listed at 6'4 248. And I'm sorry, but Lee didn't even play the same amount of games as Davis did, and he put up the better stats with the least amount of catches.

          And once again, I would take production over potential. This is the NFC Tight EndS, not Tight End. I would take Clark and Oslen over Davis and Walker.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by PACKmanN View Post
            LOL, your calling Donald Lee undersized? so what is Davis a midget? Davis is listed at 6'3 253 while Lee is listed at 6'4 248. And I'm sorry, but Lee didn't even play the same amount of games as Davis did, and he put up the better stats with the least amount of catches.

            And once again, I would take production over potential. This is the NFC Tight EndS, not Tight End. I would take Clark and Oslen over Davis and Walker.
            so in your opinion, donald lee would have produced even with TRENT DILFER throwing him the ball? give me a break man
            my quick smells like french toast

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by nikkayeah View Post
              so in your opinion, donald lee would have produced even with TRENT DILFER throwing him the ball? give me a break man
              I'm not saying that, I'm saying that Davis got more catches then Lee, but doesn't have one stat higher then Lee.

              I do agree with your QB problems, but Davis still hasn't proven he better then the tightends listed below where the 49ers are ranked, except for the ones that are just terrible.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by PACKmanN View Post
                I'm not saying that, I'm saying that Davis got more catches then Lee, but doesn't have one stat higher then Lee.

                I do agree with your QB problems, but Davis still hasn't proven he better then the tightends listed below where the 49ers are ranked, except for the ones that are just terrible.
                look at the players lee is surrounded by and compare it to the niner's offense.
                my quick smells like french toast

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by nikkayeah View Post
                  look at the players lee is surrounded by and compare it to the niner's offense.
                  That argument goes both ways. Lee has a lot less opportunities because he's probably the 4th or 5th best option at best on his team. On the 49ers, Davis is like the 2nd or 3rd at worst.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    From a production standpoint, Lee and Davis are pretty similar. Lee has proven to be the more explosive playmaker thus far as evidenced by his stats. In terms of who is better, I think Lee has the edge as of now but we all know that Davis has as much potential as anybody.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Duster View Post
                      That argument goes both ways. Lee has a lot less opportunities because he's probably the 4th or 5th best option at best on his team. On the 49ers, Davis is like the 2nd or 3rd at worst.
                      the defense doesn't focus on the te in an offense that has greg jennings, james jones, and donald driver. he has a lot more opportunities to get open, whereas the defenses zone in on davis every time he goes out as a receiver.
                      my quick smells like french toast

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Duster View Post
                        From a production standpoint, Lee and Davis are pretty similar. Lee has proven to be the more explosive playmaker thus far as evidenced by his stats. In terms of who is better, I think Lee has the edge as of now but we all know that Davis has as much potential as anybody.

                        Vernon Davis was the 4th best TE in the NFC based on stats alone last season. Add ontop of that his potential and SF deserves the #4 spot.

                        Donald Lee had a hall of fame QB and one of the best offenses in the league, also a WC offense which features the TE. Vernon Davis had NOTHING last year and put up basically the same stats.

                        I would think Vernon Davis is already the better TE and will probably blow him out of the water in upcoming years.

                        Comment


                        • Davis caught a respectable 52 passes for 509 yards last season, but he disappeared from the passing game for long stretches because he was being used as a blocker.
                          "He's such a violent, physical blocker," Martz said, noting that many modern tight ends are more finesse-oriented, content to simply keep defenders at bay. "Vernon will try to knock you out. He's such a pleasant blend of power and physical with speed.
                          http://www.sacbee.com/sf49ers/story/1034766.html
                          my quick smells like french toast

                          Comment


                          • Why does potential make the 49ers a top 4 team at the TE position for the NFC? I thought production was the whole idea...

                            Once again, rankings are based on performances, not potential.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by PACKmanN View Post
                              Why does potential make the 49ers a top 4 team at the TE position for the NFC? I thought production was the whole idea...

                              Once again, rankings are based on performances, not potential.
                              And where does it say that? Maybe the article just doesn't cater to how you want the rankings to be.

                              "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                              -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                              Originally posted by Borat
                              Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by PACKmanN View Post
                                Why does potential make the 49ers a top 4 team at the TE position for the NFC? I thought production was the whole idea...

                                Once again, rankings are based on performances, not potential.
                                Dude...stop reading only what you want to see.

                                Vernon Davis was the 4th best TE in the NFC last year based on PRODUCTION.

                                That was in a horrible offense...one of the worst in league history.

                                He is worthy of the #4 spot based on that alone and his potential is icing on the cake to take th spot.

                                Comment

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