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Shaun Hill vs. Tony Romo

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  • OK, as a 49er fan, I can't make that comparison. Young was able to learn from Bill Walsh and watch Joe Montana put that plan into action while he was on the sidelines. Hill has neither of those things.

    Going back to the original question:

    "I don't understand is why everyone was in love with Romo after his first season and yet no one thinks Shaun Hill is worth anything."

    I think we have answered that. Romo had visible support. Hill is in a situation where in trying to protect other interests that same support can not be demonstrated. The test now becomes - " Does the 49er front office realize it. " I will tell you this, and this is just me throwing my thoughts out there, but if SF does draft a QB, and that is possible:
    1. If that QB doesn't lead us to a play-off game, well...it will be more fuel for this fire that is for sure.
    2. Hill may never recover emotionally from being fully capable, yet never having been given a shot.

    Having looked at the numbers, we can clearly see that in their first year, Hill was a comparable QB to Tony Romo. What separates them now, at this pont, is merely public perception. Only future performance can separate them from here on.
    Last edited by CJSchneider; 03-10-2009, 11:21 AM.




    2 C 5:6-8 Jakob Murphy aka themaninblack

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    • Originally posted by no love View Post
      The funny thing is a former 49er qb used to play just like this... his name was steve young. It wasn't until they finally reeled him in and got his erratic play under control that he finally became a very successful qb.
      That's not suprising.. QBs in the WCO offense early on tend to make 1 or 2 reads in their progression and then take off and run the ball. McNabb did this early in his career too. Usually as a QB gets comfortable in a system, especially in making reads, he trusts what he sees, and therefore won't make 2 reads and then run the ball.

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      • Originally posted by njx9
        please learn how to read before hitting submit reply. "as a top qb" implies "one of a few options". you would be very hard pressed to make a logical argument that he ISN'T top 5, and you'd be utterly insane to argue that he isn't top 10. but, since you think everything revolves solely around stats, to the complete exclusion of any other evidence (please make the argument that shaun hill > elway because he had better numbers as a rookie, PLEASE make that argument), i'd guess it's possible that you've deluded yourself into thinking you have a somewhat intelligent argument. let me end this for you briefly: you don't. period.
        I could easily argue that Elway isn't top 10 all-time but that is for another thread. I realize now that there is no point in arguing with you because you don't want facts and statistics to back things up. Instead you have your opinions and no one is going to change them no matter what. That's okay but please don't resort to petty insults because they just make you seem stupid, not me. BTW Your -rep really hurts my feelings.

        Originally posted by njx9
        seriously? you know this inane little post (that i'm sure you REALLY wanted to believe was a gotcha) just demonstrates to me that you completely and utterly lack any reading ability whatsoever, or that you have no idea how to actually comprehend anything you read. have you read ANYTHING i've posted thus far in this thread? anything except for the two one sentence fragments that have absolutely nothing to do with the overall points i was making?
        I didn't even have to read the rest of your post, even though I did, to dismiss your argument. I guess maybe I am confused at what you are trying to get across. First you state clearly that you have only seen 5 minutes of Hill and then that you need to watch players play to judge them. It seems kind of contradictory to me but whatever. I mean your opinion of Hill seems to be formed from 1) Romo had more highlights than him and 2) people talked about Romo more.

        It seems to me that some people are not even getting the point of this thread. This thread has nothing to do with Tony Romo right now or whether or not Shaun Hill is a franchise QB. The question I am asking is why, despite better numbers and more wins against slightly stronger defenses and teams overall through their first 10 starts, is Shaun Hill dismissed as a "career back-up" while Tony Romo was praised as a "franchise QB"? I have yet to see an answer to that question other than "Hill has a weak arm."
        Last edited by abaddon41_80; 03-10-2009, 11:10 AM.

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        • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
          Wa what??? The public thinks Romo is elite? Really, are you serious??? I thought everyone makes fun of him. LOL. Who here on the forum thinks he's elite? I for one have already said Romo isn't elite. I don't know if there are any fans out there outside of Cowboys homers who really do believe he is elite. The guy has made so many dumb mistakes that I am convinced, if he stays that way, then the Cowboys will never win the SB.

          You seem upset that Romo has the public believing that he's elite. But I don't think the public thinks he's elite. You have the wrong assumption of him if you do.

          But the subject started with Romo being a franchise QB... Being a franchise QB is different from being one of the elite QBs of the league. You realize that right? OK, so don't confuse the two and change the subject at hand. Romo IS a franchise QB.

          Can Romo ever become an elite QB? Sure. So can Shaun Hill. The future is yet to be told. If Romo never wins a playoff game for the rest of his career, then he will be what you think he is.

          If the Niners think Hill is their franchise QB, then that's all that matters. If the fans think he's their franchise QB, then great. Don't worry what the rest of the world thinks. If you want him to have the public perception that Romo has, then I really have to wonder why...
          The way you guys down play Shaun Hill when Tony Romo isn't not that far off in comparison makes me think you guys think Tony Romo is elite. A franchise QB, IMO, should be elite and it should go hand in hand. Name a franchise QB who isn't elite? Don't try and tell me I changed the subject, its just my opinion that if you're a franchise QB, you should be elite.


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          • Originally posted by gpngc View Post
            lol. With Shaun Hill comes a top 10 pick and Sam Bradford/Jevan Snead/Colt McCoy. So essentially, Shaun Hill does indeed = franchise QB. Just indirectly.

            With Romo you are doomed to picking 20-29 every year after exiting the playoffs in the first round or right on the cusp of making it.

            So I guess I would rather have Hill. :) :p

            The dead horse has been beaten. Continue if you wish, but it's clear that the proof will be in the proverbial pudding. If Shaun Hill comes in and has success, all us Hill-bashers will have to give in to the Niners fans who "told us so." If we're right, we won't have to remind them of how wrong they were because they'll remember every time they are reading a Sam Bradford scouting report with feelings of hope.

            The only roadblocks to our definitive answer at the conclusion of next season are:
            -Hill has subpar-to-mediocre #s and leads them to 8-8 or 9-7, missing the playoffs.
            -Alex Smith pulls a Drew Brees and becomes good. (lol)
            -They draft Mark Sanchez.
            Why don't you go back to the armpit of the NFL we know as Seattle. All you're doing here is cracking a couple jokes without trying to add to the argument hoping you get +rep but no one is buying your crap. You seem mad that no one on your team is relevant enough to make a thread about. Being sarcastic is not for you because your jokes aren't funny to begin with.


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            • Ok we're getting off subject. But to end my part in this argument let me say this.

              49er fans don't think Shaun Hill is god. Some don't even think he's our guy or a franchise QB. But the thing about him is is that he is our starter. He is our QB and we all want him to succeed. We know very well where he stands amongst the other league signal callers. So I'm just gonna stop on that.


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              • Originally posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
                And did you miss the part about Hill having a better record than Romo but only not making the playoffs because the 49ers were too far gone? I mean you are basically saying that a QB that takes over a 4-4 team, goes 6-2 and makes the playoffs is better than a QB that takes over a 2-6 team, goes 6-2 and misses the playoffs.



                So you are saying that you should compare players off of their ability instead of their production?
                Believe it or not. Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Making the playoffs goes a long way towards building a young quarterback's public perception. Even if they both have similar win/loss records. I told you, if the 49ers made the playoffs under Hill, he'd have more job security. ...and as a byproduct, the public might've given him the same upbeat outlook that Romo had after his first season taking over as starter.

                To answer your second question. What I'm saying is that you CAN'T...CANNOT.. CAN NOT make any perfect comparisons between any 2 players. It's impossible. Can you even think of 2 that ARE the same? I'd love to hear that. But if you're going to come close in comparing someone, then you have to factor in the many many many differences and not just base it on a simple stat line. If you don't get that then I'm done talking here.
                Last edited by D-Unit; 03-10-2009, 04:21 PM.

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                • Originally posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
                  Well the problem is he doesn't make his reads for the play. He basically runs plays like he is playing flag football or backyard football. There in lies his success and failures. I was talking to someone close to the organization, and we were talking about QBs, and he said Romo just plays like flag football.
                  Well there are a lot of people "close to the organization" that don't have a lick of credibility. So you'd have to be more specific if you want to try and prove a point. But from the sound of it offhand, I'd say that guy is pretty clueless if he just thinks Romo is a flag football guy.

                  If you want to tell him that the key is to prevent Romo from having to run around and run away from defenders, then tell him that the problem is his protection and "there in lies his success and failures". When Romo has time to throw, he plays mistake free football. When Romo has to improvise then he can either create magic or disaster. His ability to improvise is actually a skill, but when it fails people call it "flag football follies". So if I'm Romo, I ignore the backseat critics.

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                  • Originally posted by no love View Post
                    The funny thing is a former 49er qb used to play just like this... his name was steve young. It wasn't until they finally reeled him in and got his erratic play under control that he finally became a very successful qb.
                    I've been saying for a while now that Romo needs to play in a WCO. I'm hoping Mike Shanahan is the next new coach who will bring that system to Dallas. I'm predicting that too. ;)

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                    • Originally posted by YAYareaRB View Post
                      The way you guys down play Shaun Hill when Tony Romo isn't not that far off in comparison makes me think you guys think Tony Romo is elite. A franchise QB, IMO, should be elite and it should go hand in hand. Name a franchise QB who isn't elite? Don't try and tell me I changed the subject, its just my opinion that if you're a franchise QB, you should be elite.
                      Are you comparing Shaun Hill to the current Tony Romo or the Tony Romo after his first year as starter? If it's the prior, then of course Hill is not regarded the same as Romo has proven more.

                      The franchise QB vs elite QB talk is all symantecs at this point. People have varying definitions. To me a franchise QB is a guy who won't lose his job. Phillip Rivers is a franchise QB, Carson Palmer is a franchise QB, Jay Cutler is a franchise QB, Matt Ryan is a franchise QB, Drew Brees is a franchise QB... and so on and so forth. Are they "elite QBs"? An elite QB has to show consistent accomplishment over time. So none of them are "elite" in my eyes. The terms do not go hand in hand, in my book. Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and other HOFs... they are elite.

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                      • Originally posted by YAYareaRB View Post
                        Ok we're getting off subject. But to end my part in this argument let me say this.

                        49er fans don't think Shaun Hill is god. Some don't even think he's our guy or a franchise QB. But the thing about him is is that he is our starter. He is our QB and we all want him to succeed. We know very well where he stands amongst the other league signal callers. So I'm just gonna stop on that.
                        ...and where does he stand exactly... Top 10, Top 20, Top 25...30? Where is the difference that 49er fans have of him and where the general public thinks of him? For me, I don't have him in the Top 18-20.

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                        • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                          Well there are a lot of people "close to the organization" that don't have a lick of credibility. So you'd have to be more specific if you want to try and prove a point. But from the sound of it offhand, I'd say that guy is pretty clueless if he just thinks Romo is a flag football guy.

                          If you want to tell him that the key is to prevent Romo from having to run around and run away from defenders, then tell him that the problem is his protection and "there in lies his success and failures". When Romo has time to throw, he plays mistake free football. When Romo has to improvise then he can either create magic or disaster. His ability to improvise is actually a skill, but when it fails people call it "flag football follies". So if I'm Romo, I ignore the backseat critics.

                          Well talk to moth or I can PM you but I am not going to post my source just to prove a point. So if you don't believe me, ah well, not big deal. And as for guy being clueless.. No not quite, not even by a long shot.

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                          • Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                            Well there are a lot of people "close to the organization" that don't have a lick of credibility. So you'd have to be more specific if you want to try and prove a point. But from the sound of it offhand, I'd say that guy is pretty clueless if he just thinks Romo is a flag football guy.

                            If you want to tell him that the key is to prevent Romo from having to run around and run away from defenders, then tell him that the problem is his protection and "there in lies his success and failures". When Romo has time to throw, he plays mistake free football. When Romo has to improvise then he can either create magic or disaster. His ability to improvise is actually a skill, but when it fails people call it "flag football follies". So if I'm Romo, I ignore the backseat critics.
                            You could really tell Sparano wasn't there this year that's for sure.
                            Originally posted by 49erNation85
                            I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.

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                            • Originally posted by Menardo75 View Post
                              You could really tell Sparano wasn't there this year that's for sure.
                              If Romo didn't get hurt and miss 3 games and the Cowboys won 1 more game guaranteeing the playoffs, would you say the same thing?

                              Sparano was always low on the totem pole while he was in Dallas. Miami had a great year, but that doesn't equate to Dallas losing a significant voice.

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                              • Originally posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
                                Well talk to moth or I can PM you but I am not going to post my source just to prove a point. So if you don't believe me, ah well, not big deal. And as for guy being clueless.. No not quite, not even by a long shot.
                                Well then, maybe I haven't figured out the context at which you were talking. Were you just shootin' the breeze? Or was that his actual breakdown analysis of Tony Romo's game?

                                in simple chit chat.. yeah, I can understand someone saying Tony has a flag football flare to his game meaning that he will improvise when the play breaks down. But to define that his game as a flag football player is not something I would agree with or respect.

                                Please PM me the name of this contact. I'm curious.... is he Ed Werner? :P

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