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Scott Pioli: Overrated?

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  • #16
    Didnt know having 3 super bowl rings made you overrated... Would love to see what he would have done with the chiefs draft last year.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by njx9
      and seriously, boo hoo? really?
      That was in response to your childish *yawn* comment. Sorry if that was too complicated for you. I guess when someone makes a valid point you have to resort to things like that instead of intelligent discussion. Hey it's your opinion, so you go with it.

      As for me, when a guy runs for over 800 yards, has 4 out of 5 100 yard games, is playing behind a very overrated O-Line which in most games does not run block very well, and with a play caller who completely abandons the running game in the second half every week, yeah I'd say that's a pretty good back who deserves more opportunity to run the ball. He also proved to be very explosive catching the ball on swing passes but McDaniels failed miserably to take advantage of that. I'm hoping he gets those opportunities this year now that McDaniels is gone.
      **
      2012 Patriots Anti-Draft

      1 - Anyone but Shea McClellin, Derek Wolfe, Peter Konz, Kendall Reyes, Harrison Smith, Whitney Mercilus or a RB

      2 Anyone but McClellin, Wolfe, Doug Martin or an OT

      3 Anyone but Wolfe

      **

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      • #18
        Puppy Puncher = Brian Waters' son?


        What a pessimistic thread, seemingly based solely on upsetting Brain Waters. The Maroney/Jackson draft certainly looks to be the only true fail for Pioli & BB since they took over in NE. But even that is too recent to be sure. We'll find out for sure if O'Callahan, LeKevin Smith and David Thomas can play over the next 2 seasons.

        Merriweather is very good and my crystal ball says he earns his first pro-bowl appearance this year. Considering the rest of that draft consisted of Welker & Moss I'd say that's pretty stellar, which you did mention.


        The biggest ommission from your post is the fact that every time a top player goes down someone else steps up. That is the measure of the FO's effectiveness. Be it Brady, Seymour, Adalius, Maroney, or the entire defensive secondary - the next guy in line steps up and plays well enough to not be a glaring hole. Coaching is certainly part of that, but I'd say - based on KC's success over the last few seasons - that anything is an upgrade. Going out and poaching one of the consensus best in the league is a great move.

        The second biggest would be the 2000-2004 drafts that you conviently left out.
        2004 PATRIOTS DRAFT PICKS
        Wilfork, Watson, Hill (rip)

        2003 PATRIOTS DRAFT PICKS
        Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson, Bethel Johnson (bum), Dan Klecko, Asante Samuel, Dan Koppen

        2002 PATRIOTS DRAFT PICKS
        Dan Graham, Deion Branch, Rohan Davey, Jarvis Green, David Givens,

        2001 PATRIOTS DRAFT PICKS
        Richard Seymour, Matt Light

        2000 PATRIOTS DRAFT PICKS
        ok, Redmond in the 3rd . . . meh. Brady in the 6th on the other hand . . . and Patrick Pass in the 7th

        They do great in the draft and free agency. What the hell are you looking for in KC of Pioli isn't good enough? Overrated . . . maybe, but the success of NE makes it tough to defend calling him overrated. How many championships does a guy need to be "as good as advertised" in your opinion?


        I don't mind Maroney being considered a bust, but to say he sucks is just stupid. He dances too much, but that (imo) is more a function of a guy who can't stay healthy enough to break through the 'rookie happy-feet' syndrome.

        Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs

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        • #19
          Originally posted by njx9
          given that you usually make pretty coherent, well reasoned arguments (honestly), i'll be waiting to hear why, in the face of almost all evidence, he doesn't suck.
          The guy has talent. He has good speed, is elusive and can deliver a hit on defenders. He went off in the 07 post season, accumulating nearly 300 total yards & 2 TDs in two playoff games in 2007 until NYG destroyed everything the Pats tried to do offensively.

          A career long TD of 59 yards and enough 10+ yard gains to go with that over his injury plaqued career. I would mention the 4.5 ypc, but you pre-emptively nixed that as an argument ;)

          He absolutely has not panned out, but it seems to be b/c of injury. To say he sucks is unfair, imo. Call him a bust* and define the * as 'injury related' and I'm ok with it. Call him a bust and say he sucks and I'm going to disagree. Get him on the field for a full season (however doubtful that may be) and see how he does. If he can't do any better than his usual backfield dancing then I'll be willing to say he sucks.

          Thanks for the compliment.

          Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Thunder&Lightning View Post
            Didnt know having 3 super bowl rings made you overrated... Would love to see what he would have done with the chiefs draft last year.
            Actually this is a pretty decent example of how he likely has become overrated. Pioli was part of an organzation that won 3 Superbowls. That doesn't mean it will translate to success by himself in Kansas City as all. Romeo Crennel was part of an organization that won 3 Superbowls too.


            Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.

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            • #21
              Hater in the house I could not care less if he is overrated as long as he keeps doing what he has done the last 8 years or so.
              Last edited by Splat; 03-27-2009, 11:54 AM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by njx9
                do i? like when i've said something of substance in every post in this thread thus far? do you have problems reading or did you just skip past all the words?



                boy, 800 yards?!? you mean he averaged a whopping 50 yards per game? what a great running back.



                what the hell are you talking about? he has 4 100 yard games in HIS CAREER. he's 4 for 30.



                sure didn't seem to hold morris back. but maybe he played behind an entirely different line.



                in week one last year against KC, you ran 5/11 times on your opening drive, finishing with a morris score. your next drive, in the 4th quarter, you ran 1/3 plays. your next posession, you ran 3/3 plays. on your final drive, you ran the ball 5/10 plays. giving a total of 14 runs out of 27 total plays. which means you actually ran the ball MORE often than you threw it.



                pretty explosive catching the ball? based on what, exactly, his 4 total catches in the last year and three games? meanwhile faulk has had 40+ catches every season maroney's been in new england. and has been FAR better on third downs. but the 36 catch difference is just because mcdaniels hated maroney, right?


                do you have ANY idea what you're talking about? this entire post was a series of either complete fabrications or outright lies.

                I'm not really interested in getting into a pissing match with you. But to answer your questions..

                Like I said that 800 yards was 4.5 yards per carry. That's pretty good. If he had more carries he'd be a 1200 yard back (assuming he could stay healthy of course, and that's my concern with him)

                He actually has 6 100 yard games including playoffs which is what I'm talking about. Those 4 100 yard games came in 4 out of 5 games. You could have just asked me to clarify instead of throwing a tantrum. Maroney can't be expected to have many 100 yard games when they aren't giving him the ball. He was getting better and better in his second year but McDaniels didn't take advantage of it.

                You say it didn't hold Morris back, but Maroney had more yards than Morris so I can't understand your argument there.

                I'm not sure what your getting at with the KC game comment, but that's nice. The fact is Josh McDaniels frequently gives up on the running game in the second half. He even did it when Dillon and Maroney were there. Again, it boils down to what I've been saying, he produces well for the limited carries he's getting.

                Again I'm not sure why you're comparing Maroney to Faulk there. Of course Faulk catches the ball more. He's the third down back. Maroney isn't. I'm not talking about statistics in this case. I'm talking about when they threw him the ball (which as you pointed out they did very little) he was very effective getting big yards out of it. An intelligent OC would see that and make that a part of his offense but McDaniels failed to do it.

                And yes, I do know what I'm talking about. It's just clear that you're not interested in opinions that don't agree with yours and your response is to throw crap at anyone who says something you don't agree with.
                **
                2012 Patriots Anti-Draft

                1 - Anyone but Shea McClellin, Derek Wolfe, Peter Konz, Kendall Reyes, Harrison Smith, Whitney Mercilus or a RB

                2 Anyone but McClellin, Wolfe, Doug Martin or an OT

                3 Anyone but Wolfe

                **

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by CC.SD View Post
                  I think you have to give him at least one season in KC before starting this thread.
                  Agreed, you havent even gotten through your draft yet. I think regardless of how you feel this was a big improvement over what you had, you won two games last year, you cant go anywhere but up, and who in your opinion would you have hired other then Pioli?


                  Originally posted by WMD
                  Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
                  Originally posted by gpngc
                  I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Jvig43 View Post
                    Agreed, you havent even gotten through your draft yet. I think regardless of how you feel this was a big improvement over what you had, you won two games last year, you cant go anywhere but up, and who in your opinion would you have hired other then Pioli?
                    I think most of you are failing to understand the point of his post (which, I didn't understand until I saw some of the hyperbole coming from people trying to disagree with him).

                    He's not saying, I don't think, that Pioli is unqualified or that he automatically thinks he'll do a bad job. He's saying that it's completely unfounded to assume that he'll turn the Chiefs around like he did with the Patriots. Which is absolutely true. One, becuase it's a completely different organization. Two, because he has much more personal responsibility over the operation of the team. Three, because, as was pointed out, his drafts the last 3-4 years have been pretty average.

                    To say that he needs a year before you can call him a failure is obvious. But it seems like far more people are willing to assume that he's going to succeed than logic and precendence would allow.


                    Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
                      I think most of you are failing to understand the point of his post (which, I didn't understand until I saw some of the hyperbole coming from people trying to disagree with him).

                      He's not saying, I don't think, that Pioli is unqualified or that he automatically thinks he'll do a bad job. He's saying that it's completely unfounded to assume that he'll turn the Chiefs around like he did with the Patriots. Which is absolutely true. One, becuase it's a completely different organization. Two, because he has much more personal responsibility over the operation of the team. Three, because, as was pointed out, his drafts the last 3-4 years have been pretty average.

                      To say that he needs a year before you can call him a failure is obvious. But it seems like far more people are willing to assume that he's going to succeed than logic and precendence would allow.
                      Right, I agree that its stupid to think the chiefs can just become a play off contender with one draft. I just didnt see the point of worrying yet, as the draft isnt even here yet.


                      Originally posted by WMD
                      Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
                      Originally posted by gpngc
                      I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I don't think all the hype is just about Pioli. I think it also has alot to do with the situation as there is already alot of young talent already in Kansas City. I know alot of fans (not just Chiefs fans) give Herm Edwards alot of ish but he got this franchise a very solid group of young guys to build around. I don 't know for sure if this team will be playoff caliber anytime soon, but I do know that if we do guys like Albert, Bowe, Dorsey, Flowers, Page, Carr, Charles, and Cottam will be a big part of the success.
                        Last edited by LarryJohnson27; 03-27-2009, 12:12 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Jvig43 View Post
                          Right, I agree that its stupid to think the chiefs can just become a play off contender with one draft. I just didnt see the point of worrying yet, as the draft isnt even here yet.
                          Most Chiefs fans understand that this will take a few years and might not work out at all but there is reason for hope that we didn't have the last few years.

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                          • #28
                            With the way some of the other teams are going in the AFC West, the Chiefs might be the favorite to win it. They really don't lack talent, and one Pioli draft could do it when you take last year's rookies and their development as well as the players they've acquired in the off-season into account.
                            ________
                            CandyBBdoll cam
                            Last edited by nepg; 09-17-2011, 08:17 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
                              I think most of you are failing to understand the point of his post (which, I didn't understand until I saw some of the hyperbole coming from people trying to disagree with him).

                              He's not saying, I don't think, that Pioli is unqualified or that he automatically thinks he'll do a bad job. He's saying that it's completely unfounded to assume that he'll turn the Chiefs around like he did with the Patriots. Which is absolutely true. One, becuase it's a completely different organization. Two, because he has much more personal responsibility over the operation of the team. Three, because, as was pointed out, his drafts the last 3-4 years have been pretty average.

                              To say that he needs a year before you can call him a failure is obvious. But it seems like far more people are willing to assume that he's going to succeed than logic and precendence would allow.
                              The point is understandable, and the question is fair.

                              Some of the "evidence" is incorrect. Specifically, claiming the last 3-4 years of drafting have been average is just wrong. One year out of 3 has the potential to be (and arguably already is) an epic fail.

                              2008 = DROY and the next 3 picks landed on IR
                              2007 = Merriweather (trades for Welker & Moss)
                              2006 = Epic Fail
                              2005 = 4 solid starters & Cassel (imo 5 starters)

                              Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by nepg View Post
                                With the way some of the other teams are going in the AFC West, the Chiefs might be the favorite to win it. They really don't lack talent, and one Pioli draft could do it when you take last year's rookies and their development as well as the players they've acquired in the off-season into account.
                                This is why threads like this get started slow down this will take time our D is a mess it is going to take more then one off season to fix it.

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