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Most overrated teams going into the season

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  • #46
    Originally posted by bsaza2358 View Post
    How come no one is mentioning Indianapolis with the loss of Dungy? Sure, their offense remains potent, but losing their unifying force could prove problematic. Their RB situation still appears unsettled, and is the D good enough and healthy enough to finish? The rest of the division isn't getting worse... I'll go with the Colts.
    I was just about to post that. They really haven't gotten better and division is going to be even stronger. They lost Tony Dungy and Ron Meeks and they haven't added anyone defense. You know there offense will be good but its not as dominant as it used to be/ People are assuming they're going to be as good as they usually are but I think this year they will drop down a bit. I understand with Peyton you can never count out the Colts but I predict that they'll miss the playoffs with a 9-7 record.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by bsaza2358 View Post
      How come no one is mentioning Indianapolis with the loss of Dungy?
      Because Geo will cut my balls off if I did. :)

      What do the vikings and marijuana have in common? Every time you put them in a bowl
      they get smoked.

      2010-2011 Super Bowl Champions
      Hint:Not the Bears.

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      • #48
        According to this thread: Dallas, all the NFC south, giants, falcons, ravens, patriots, Miami, jets, houston, bears, and Cincinnati, almost half of the league. Hard to believe the colts are overrated, Manning will be starting injury free, and the offense should be enough to carry them to the playoffs.
        Sam Bradford will be a bust- 2/24/2010

        Colts Cardinals Bulls Hurricanes

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
          That's why you refit the offense to fit the existing group. They still have a certain skill set, and so you adjust the passing game to fit it. Smith is going to playing Z, Hixon X, in the regular package, and in the other personnel groups everyone will be playing different spots.

          With the offense not adjusted when Plax went down it's pretty damn hard for Manning to do much with a 90 year old Toomer and Hixon basically tossed in as X full time, with plays designed for Plax's skill set.

          I am 100% confident two veteran coaches like Coughlin and Gilbride fixed this issue from last season during this years offseason.

          You will see.. I am not worried. It's not like we are the Arizona Cards and throw a million times a game.
          Why didn't they adjust the offense when Plax went down? I understand that you can't revamp the entire playbook, but still. Honestly, what receiver should teams be afraid of? Who's going to command double teams the way Plax did? Who's going to take that extra safety out of the box?
          Last edited by Sniper; 07-24-2009, 05:24 PM.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by diabsoule View Post
            Unlike past years, this year we actually have a defensive coordinator.
            Not trying to sound like an asshole, but every year the saints have a new cornerback or new linebacker or several new draft picks or a new coach who's going to change things.

            I'll agree a lot of pieces of the puzzle have been added, largely due to the previous years drafting and signing so I expect an improvement, but I don't think you can simply be given benefit of the doubt, due to the track record.

            Originally posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
            the panthers have yet to have back to back winning seasons under Fox
            A few years ago Tom Brady never threw more than 28 touchdowns, DeAngelo Williams never had more than 500 yards and Jay Cutler was a bronco.

            We american football dude.

            Keep in mind last year the Carolina backfield as a unit produced over 5 yards per carry...

            Carolina line ranked first in both conversions on short yardage running plays with a 79 percent conversion rate and in percentage of yardage gained beyond 10 yards. In other words even in obvious running situations 4/5 times the Panthers converted and more often than anyone in the league one of the backs popped a run for more than 10 yards.

            This is with the starting offensive line only having 7 games as a complete unit.

            Behind Otah a rookie there was a DVOA average of 4.6ypc off right tackle.

            Their sacks allowed was good enough for 9th in the league.

            With a great offensive line and running game, not to mention a top 5 receiver and solid defense it's hard to see Carolina having a losing season.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Sniper View Post
              Why didn't they adjust the offense when Plax went down? I understand that you can't revamp the entire playbook, but still. Honestly, what receiver should teams be afraid of? Who's going to command double teams the way Plax did? Who's going to take that extra safety out of the box?

              Why didn't they adjust it when plax went down? No time! We keep getting week 4 bye!!!!! LOL. Can't do anything after that. Do you know what it is like week after week to prepare as a coach? You are set in your routine and don't have time to re-adjust everything! You have to just continue on. You can add a play or too, but if you managed to create a scheme for Plax's skillset, and he is not there, you're screwed! You simply have no time to do anything else during a game week.

              Why do you need to be afraid of any WR? This isn't a video game! Football is a game of matchups, so all we need do now is adjust it to our existing wrs, and use our personnel packages accordingly. So it depends on the team we play, and what their weakness is. And from there we utilize our WRs and TEs accordingly.

              Keep in mind we win games because we run the ball, control the clock, and play good defense. Now that we have our guys back and added extra, we will be fine.

              You do realize you don't double team every single play even when plax was there. But now, teams will play man on man, probably with no double teams meaning we will force them to creep the safety down, and when they do, we can use play action or find a matchup and work it. We have the WRs, it's up to the teams to have the depth at CB.

              I would be curious to see how Beckum does against the SS. He would be a great mismatch if he can stay healthy. We are not a vertical stretch offense to begin with. So what we'd probably do is throw short to intermediate routes and move the chains that way, especially considering we get 5 yard s a pop per carry.

              Again it's no need to be worried, now that veteran offensive coaches have a full offseason to draft and re-adjust this passing scheme.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock View Post
                According to this thread: Dallas, all the NFC south, giants, falcons, ravens, patriots, Miami, jets, houston, bears, and Cincinnati, almost half of the league. Hard to believe the colts are overrated, Manning will be starting injury free, and the offense should be enough to carry them to the playoffs.
                Yep, and according to the other thread about half the league is underrated leaving it balanced in the end.

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                • #53
                  I think the Ravens will fall back down to be a 7ish win team, not really overrated because people aren't talking them up too much. I also think the Titans and Dolphins will come back down and miss the playoffs.

                  In the NFC the Falcons will come back down, I could also see the Giants not living up to expectations just because.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
                    Why didn't they adjust it when plax went down? No time! We keep getting week 4 bye!!!!! LOL. Can't do anything after that. Do you know what it is like week after week to prepare as a coach? You are set in your routine and don't have time to re-adjust everything! You have to just continue on. You can add a play or too, but if you managed to create a scheme for Plax's skillset, and he is not there, you're screwed! You simply have no time to do anything else during a game week.
                    Doesn't it concern you a little bit that they weren't able to find a way to at least tweak the playbook? I mean, 3-4 in your last seven, including losing at home in the playoffs and never threatening to score in that game, can't be comforting.

                    Why do you need to be afraid of any WR? This isn't a video game!
                    This has nothing to do with video games. The Eagles, for one, showed that they were petrified of Plax. Jim Johnson said that in the first game, they doubled Plax around 70% of the time. That's quite a bit. Look at the difference it made.

                    @ Philly- Giants won 36-31 with Plax
                    Eli Manning- 17-31, 191 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT
                    Running game- 45 carries, 219 yards, 4.9 ypc, 2 TD

                    @ NY- Eagles won 20-14 w/o Plax
                    Eli Manning- 13-27, 123 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT (Garbage time TD with 0:15 left)
                    Running game- 24 carries, 88 yards, 3.7 ypc, 0 TD

                    @ NY- Eagles won 23-11 w/o Plax
                    Eli Manning- 15-29, 169 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT
                    Running game- 32 carries, 138 yards, 4.3 ypc

                    Look at the games against Dallas.

                    @ NY- Giants win 35-14 with Plax
                    Eli Manning- 16-27, 147 yards, 3 TD, 1 INT
                    Running game- 34 carries, 200 yards, 5.9 ypc, 2 TD

                    @ DAL- Cowboys win 20-8 w/o Plax
                    Eli Manning- 18-35, 191 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT
                    Running game- 17 carries, 72 yards, 4.2 ypc

                    Look how much everything dropped without Burress.

                    Keep in mind we win games because we run the ball, control the clock, and play good defense. Now that we have our guys back and added extra, we will be fine.
                    Despite running the ball, having great defense and killing clock, you still need effective passing. Manning's completion % dropped something like 8% and his passer rating dropped 40ish points without Burress. Eli Manning without Burress was generally not an effective passer. It remains to be seen if he will be.

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                    • #55
                      here's my take if your calling the Giants over-rated:

                      if it's because we lost Ward. shut up. never speak of football again. Ward was an average back who was a product of our OL and system. Bradshaw, Ware and Brown are more talented backs and will probably produce more. Ward became from under-rated, to good, to ridiculously over-rated in like, 6 games. I like him, but his loss won't effect us at all.

                      Now the only reason for our downfall would be WR. We dont have a true #1 which upsets me, it truly does. I was a major advocate of dealing a 2nd or so for Ocho or trying to get braylon. BUT

                      we've had a whole season to adjust the playbook and Eli to work with these young guns. He had maybe a month, if that, to work with Hixon and Smith in primary roles, which in the NFL, is NOT a lot of time at all.

                      Oh, and we're getting our best defensive player and top 5 DE Osi Umenyiora back, in case any of you forgot.
                      We ALL bleed scarlet
                      New York Giants Super Bowl 46 Champs
                      UNITED: I actually attend the college I root for
                      Originally posted by PalmerToCJ
                      BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by scottyboy View Post
                        here's my take if your calling the Giants over-rated:

                        if it's because we lost Ward. shut up. never speak of football again. Ward was an average back who was a product of our OL and system. Bradshaw, Ware and Brown are more talented backs and will probably produce more. Ward became from under-rated, to good, to ridiculously over-rated in like, 6 games. I like him, but his loss won't effect us at all.
                        I don't give a rat's ass about Ward. He's not good.

                        Now the only reason for our downfall would be WR. We dont have a true #1 which upsets me, it truly does. I was a major advocate of dealing a 2nd or so for Ocho or trying to get braylon. BUT we've had a whole season to adjust the playbook and Eli to work with these young guns. He had maybe a month, if that, to work with Hixon and Smith in primary roles, which in the NFL, is NOT a lot of time at all.
                        The drop in Manning's play over the last seven games doesn't concern you at all? After all, this is a guy who you're thinking of giving $50 million guaranteed to, and he couldn't do better than 3-4? To be fair, call it 3-3. The Minnesota game doesn't count. You had two games without an offensive TD, and another one where your lone offensive TD came in garbage time with the game already decided. That doesn't concern you guys? ********.

                        Oh, and we're getting our best defensive player and top 5 DE Osi Umenyiora back, in case any of you forgot.
                        Again, the defense and running game aren't/weren't the problem.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Sniper View Post
                          I don't give a rat's ass about Ward. He's not good.



                          The drop in Manning's play over the last seven games doesn't concern you at all? After all, this is a guy who you're thinking of giving $50 million guaranteed to, and he couldn't do better than 3-4? To be fair, call it 3-3. The Minnesota game doesn't count. You had two games without an offensive TD, and another one where your lone offensive TD came in garbage time with the game already decided. That doesn't concern you guys? ********.



                          Again, the defense and running game aren't/weren't the problem.
                          1. I know, just addressing a generalization that's been put out there, not you.

                          2. It does concern me. It does a lot. BUT, i think we dont need him and a stud WR to be stellar. I think with a shorter passing game with more slants, curls and posts, Eli will be better. HOPEFULLY, Gillbride realizes this, and sticks with a power run game and a short-intermediate pass game. Again, i am scared, but we shouldn't be considered "over-rated".

                          3. I know, again, another generalization and people are forgetting about my Osi!
                          We ALL bleed scarlet
                          New York Giants Super Bowl 46 Champs
                          UNITED: I actually attend the college I root for
                          Originally posted by PalmerToCJ
                          BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            I'm gonna go this way...

                            Overrated - Vikings/Bears... Vikings are a good team but they have had no QB stability in recent years and although Jesus Christ is the second coming of Adrian Peterson I'm not sure he can carry the team all the way and if he goes down the Vikings are absolutely ******.

                            As far as the Bears go... They will be good, possibly playoff good, but I think people may over-estimate the impact of Jay Cutler if they can't get him a wide receiver before the season starts. Marshall/Royal/Scheffler were all great targets for Cutler in Denver.

                            Underrated - Broncos... For the same reason that the Bears are overrated the Broncos may be underrated. The Broncos are a good offensive team with or without Jay Cutler. Kyle Orton put up some decent numbers and started to come into his own last year as a QB and now he gets the same guys that Cutler lost plus Knowshon Moreno who I expect to be the rookie of the year.

                            Either way, I expect the overrated teams to compete for the playoffs but I also expect the Broncos to be an annoyance to the Chargers in the West... I expect SD to win the west but I could see the Broncos going 7-9 or 8-8 and playing the Chargers close.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Sniper View Post
                              Doesn't it concern you a little bit that they weren't able to find a way to at least tweak the playbook? I mean, 3-4 in your last seven, including losing at home in the playoffs and never threatening to score in that game, can't be comforting.



                              This has nothing to do with video games. The Eagles, for one, showed that they were petrified of Plax. Jim Johnson said that in the first game, they doubled Plax around 70% of the time. That's quite a bit. Look at the difference it made.

                              @ Philly- Giants won 36-31 with Plax
                              Eli Manning- 17-31, 191 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT
                              Running game- 45 carries, 219 yards, 4.9 ypc, 2 TD

                              @ NY- Eagles won 20-14 w/o Plax
                              Eli Manning- 13-27, 123 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT (Garbage time TD with 0:15 left)
                              Running game- 24 carries, 88 yards, 3.7 ypc, 0 TD

                              @ NY- Eagles won 23-11 w/o Plax
                              Eli Manning- 15-29, 169 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT
                              Running game- 32 carries, 138 yards, 4.3 ypc

                              Look at the games against Dallas.

                              @ NY- Giants win 35-14 with Plax
                              Eli Manning- 16-27, 147 yards, 3 TD, 1 INT
                              Running game- 34 carries, 200 yards, 5.9 ypc, 2 TD

                              @ DAL- Cowboys win 20-8 w/o Plax
                              Eli Manning- 18-35, 191 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT
                              Running game- 17 carries, 72 yards, 4.2 ypc

                              Look how much everything dropped without Burress.



                              Despite running the ball, having great defense and killing clock, you still need effective passing. Manning's completion % dropped something like 8% and his passer rating dropped 40ish points without Burress. Eli Manning without Burress was generally not an effective passer. It remains to be seen if he will be.



                              It doesn't concern me that they couldn't tweak the playbook, because I coached, and I know during the season, you have no time and this is at the D3 level. Imagine the NFL level??? It's very, very hard! Why? Because when you adjust passing plays you have to adjust:

                              1. Protections
                              2. WRs routes and Depths
                              3. RB Routes and depths
                              4. TE routes and Depths
                              5. # of drop steps for the QB ( 1, 3, 5, or 7)
                              6. Progressions and reads for the QB
                              7. Hot routes and what not.
                              8. Indicate choice or option routes for CB technique AND/OR Coverage


                              This happens all for 1 play! Then during the week when the hell do you have time to practice this? Have you been to a NFL practice? It's very, very efficient, and fast paced. Once the airhorn blows, you go to your next period! You are not wasting time with anything. If it was training camp you have an install period, but during the season, no way in hell, are you going to sit and practice and install stuff to the degree we are talking about.

                              Of course 3-4 isn't an ideal record, but anyone around football knows if your passing game is centered around X wr, with Plax's skill set, and then that WR is done, you can't stick another WR in there with plays designed for Plax's skill set and expect to win. That's the media and avg. fan need to understand! That's where you are getting the media and even our giants fans to some degree have a knee jerk reaction to all this.

                              Now... if Gilbride AND Coughlin do nothing and sit with the same plays then yes, I will be very, very, very angry and worried! But the fact we drafted Beckum and talked about adjusting the passing scheme doesn't worry me. I understand what went wrong and I understand the issues surrounding the situation. Therefore I am not worried 1 bit.

                              I think Manning will be fine because of the stuff i listed above. When you take away someone whose passing plays all start with Burress and his skill set, and stick him with Hixon who is no Burress, then you're in trouble. I would be very surprised if Manning was successful throwing to the other WRs in a scheme that was centered around Burress.

                              I expect a drop in stats and that will effect the win/loss column.

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                              • #60
                                I think the Eagles are being overrated quite a bit. I think they should be a solid football team, and one of the better teams in the NFC South. But I think the addition of Jason Peters has been overrated. As good as Peters can be at times, he was below average last year. He can try to assign some of the sacks he has been credited with giving up to others. But when I watched him last season, he was repeatedly beat off the edge and looked very slow in the running game. He was certainly not the force we all saw in 2007. I think he can rebound and play comptently. But will he become the dominant force he was in 2007? Remains to be seen.

                                The loss of Brian Dawkins will hurt from a leadership standpoint. I think Demps, and the addition of Sean Jones will allow for the Eagles to continue to play well on defense. But Dawkins was the emotional leader of the defense, and his energy will be missed.

                                McNabb is always a question mark. Will he play like a top five QB or be erratic? The addition of Maclin could help but I think he will impact special teams more this year than the passing game. Westbrook's injury concerns also cannot be overlooked when judging the Eagles.

                                I know some people are also pointing to the loss of Jim Johnson. I actually like Sean McDermott. I had him as one of the top guys that I wanted for the open DC position for my team. I like the guy we chose better. But I think McDermott is an up and coming defensive mind who has years of experience working under Johnson. I think he'll bring Johnson's intensity to the game, and should also be able to recapitulate his scheme quite well. Where I do think he might struggle is having Johnson's wisdom to make the right call in certain situations. But I expect him to grow in this regard with experience.
                                Last edited by Seasonticketholder; 07-25-2009, 11:27 AM.

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