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  • #31
    So you've got two mistakes from his first draft which I acknowledged he was ill prepared for? That "killed him"? Chill scrote, of course ET would be a huge help for that team, but Alphonso Smith was a prospect who a lot of people liked a lot despite his miniscule stature. And again he was trying to rebuild the locker room to make it smart and harder working, both Moreno and Smith where mistakes where he was ill prepared and so erred on the the side of caution while trying to rebuild that locker room.

    With Ayers and Doom they've got a place a start and from what I've seen McBean, Cox and I think it was Joe Mays have looked like they could contribute going forward. Plus David Veikune has potential at ILB and might end up developing into another useful player. Add a first round stud for the DL, a big body to groom behind Jwilliams, another LB or two and some DBs and that D can be pretty solid by the end of next season, right as Tebow should be stepping into the starting role and bey bey is approaching that magically third season when a lot of young raw WRs really explode.

    Frankly if McDaniels can do for the D what he did for the O this year, I think they'll be one more draft away from seriously contending for the division and playoffs up to the very the end of the season.

    BK

    Originally posted by AcheTen
    JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
    Originally posted by abaddon41_80
    Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
    Originally posted by JBCX
    Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Rosebud View Post
      So you've got two mistakes from his first draft which I acknowledged he was ill prepared for? That "killed him"? Chill scrote, of course ET would be a huge help for that team, but Alphonso Smith was a prospect who a lot of people liked a lot despite his miniscule stature. And again he was trying to rebuild the locker room to make it smart and harder working, both Moreno and Smith where mistakes where he was ill prepared and so erred on the the side of caution while trying to rebuild that locker room.

      With Ayers and Doom they've got a place a start and from what I've seen McBean, Cox and I think it was Joe Mays have looked like they could contribute going forward. Plus David Veikune has potential at ILB and might end up developing into another useful player. Add a first round stud for the DL, a big body to groom behind Jwilliams, another LB or two and some DBs and that D can be pretty solid by the end of next season, right as Tebow should be stepping into the starting role and bey bey is approaching that magically third season when a lot of young raw WRs really explode.

      Frankly if McDaniels can do for the D what he did for the O this year, I think they'll be one more draft away from seriously contending for the division and playoffs up to the very the end of the season.
      Alphonso Smith was well thought of here, but every single Broncos fan on this site hated the idea of trading a 1st for him. That's the hang up. If he drafted him straight up and he failed, that's excusable. But trading a first for a second and having him gone in a year is awful.


      Originally posted by Scott Wright
      Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
      Originally posted by njx9
      do i tell you when to flip the burger?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) View Post
        Alphonso Smith was well thought of here, but every single Broncos fan on this site hated the idea of trading a 1st for him. That's the hang up. If he drafted him straight up and he failed, that's excusable. But trading a first for a second and having him gone in a year is awful.
        Yes, he did make two insanely terrible mistakes, but they already haven't fired him for those mistakes and he showed immense progress with a really good draft this past year. If he has another good draft this year I think he'll be there for a long time, if he has another WTF draft this year then yeah, you fire him after the year if there's been no progress.

        BK

        Originally posted by AcheTen
        JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
        Originally posted by abaddon41_80
        Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
        Originally posted by JBCX
        Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Rosebud View Post
          Yes, he did make two insanely terrible mistakes, but they already haven't fired him for those mistakes and he showed immense progress with a really good draft this past year. If he has another good draft this year I think he'll be there for a long time, if he has another WTF draft this year then yeah, you fire him after the year if there's been no progress.
          That's the exact same attitude that kept Wade Phillips employed for two more seasons after the 2008 Cowboys' season-ending meltdown when it became clear to everyone but the ownership that Wade Phillips was a terrible head coach who could never earn the respect of his team.

          That's also the same attitude that kept Brad Childress employed long after it was obvious to everyone that the man didn't have a clue when it came to coaching and play-calling.

          Some things are just patently obvious and don't change. McDaniels is an idiot. Only an idiot would trade away a future first round pick to draft a cornerback in the second round of the current draft. If he exhibits idiotic behavior one year, chances are, he's going to exhibit idiotic behavior for the rest of his career.

          I mean, good luck with him and all, if you believe in him, but my personal opinion is that the Broncos are f****ed if they keep McDaniels around as head coach/GM. He's an offensive coordinator, at best.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Morton View Post
            That's the exact same attitude that kept Wade Phillips employed for two more seasons after the 2008 Cowboys' season-ending meltdown when it became clear to everyone but the ownership that Wade Phillips was a terrible head coach who could never earn the respect of his team.

            That's also the same attitude that kept Brad Childress employed long after it was obvious to everyone that the man didn't have a clue when it came to coaching and play-calling.

            Some things are just patently obvious and don't change. McDaniels is an idiot. Only an idiot would trade away a future first round pick to draft a cornerback in the second round of the current draft. If he exhibits idiotic behavior one year, chances are, he's going to exhibit idiotic behavior for the rest of his career.

            I mean, good luck with him and all, if you believe in him, but my personal opinion is that the Broncos are f****ed if they keep McDaniels around as head coach/GM. He's an offensive coordinator, at best.
            This is COMPLETELY wrong.

            Say what you want about the Moreno pick and the Alphonso Smith trade(s), but McDaniels has been a very good coach on the field, and controls his lockerroom. He hasn't lost any players, and the ones he's had problems with are ******* gone. Get out of here comparing McDaniels, as a coach, to Wade Phillips and Brad Childress. That's just completely out of bounds.

            Even as a GM, he's been solid. People like to jump on every "unconventional" move he makes (even though he's just doing what's done in New England and Kansas City).

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by nepg View Post
              This is COMPLETELY wrong.

              Say what you want about the Moreno pick and the Alphonso Smith trade(s), but McDaniels has been a very good coach on the field, and controls his lockerroom. He hasn't lost any players, and the ones he's had problems with are ******* gone. Get out of here comparing McDaniels, as a coach, to Wade Phillips and Brad Childress. That's just completely out of bounds.

              Even as a GM, he's been solid. People like to jump on every "unconventional" move he makes (even though he's just doing what's done in New England and Kansas City).
              My point is not that he is plagued by the exact same problems as Wade Phillips and Brad Childress - he actually is a solid coach and offensive coordinator - my point is that he's an idiot when it comes to GM duties and roster management, and he likely will remain an idiot in that regard just as Wade Phillips and Brad Childress remained bad coaches despite people saying "give them another chance - that was an anomaly" after some questionable games.

              My point is that this attitude that people have that discounts terrible decisions such as the Alphonso Smith pick - this attitude of "well, it was his first draft, he'll get better" is the exact same attitude that keeps people employed in positions they are unqualified to be employed in for far too long.

              Brad Childress and Wade Phillips are coordinators, and not head coaches. It was apparent to smart people long before they were fired that they were not fit for the jobs. It is apparent at this stage that Josh McDaniels is not fit for the GM's job and should be an offensive coordinator, or at best a head coach without personnel power.
              Last edited by Morton; 11-26-2010, 06:42 PM.

              Comment


              • #37
                The only teams that shouldn't "build up" would probably be the Bengals and Panthers.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Morton View Post
                  That's the exact same attitude that kept Wade Phillips employed for two more seasons after the 2008 Cowboys' season-ending meltdown when it became clear to everyone but the ownership that Wade Phillips was a terrible head coach who could never earn the respect of his team.

                  That's also the same attitude that kept Brad Childress employed long after it was obvious to everyone that the man didn't have a clue when it came to coaching and play-calling.

                  Some things are just patently obvious and don't change. McDaniels is an idiot. Only an idiot would trade away a future first round pick to draft a cornerback in the second round of the current draft. If he exhibits idiotic behavior one year, chances are, he's going to exhibit idiotic behavior for the rest of his career.

                  I mean, good luck with him and all, if you believe in him, but my personal opinion is that the Broncos are f****ed if they keep McDaniels around as head coach/GM. He's an offensive coordinator, at best.
                  McDaniels had a great second draft so yeah, he's not an idiot. Those coaches were just bad coaches, their teams won despite them because of their talent, no one in their right mind would suggest Denver has a wealth of talent. If you're really dumb enough to believe that a poorly prepared first time Head Coach can't learn from his mistakes is simply idiotic, especially when McDaniels showed obvious improvements with a great second draft. I mean I can take your flawed logic and assume that because McDaniels had a great draft his second year he'll only have great drafts from now on...would be just as dumb.

                  BK

                  Originally posted by AcheTen
                  JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
                  Originally posted by abaddon41_80
                  Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
                  Originally posted by JBCX
                  Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Morton View Post
                    My point is not that he is plagued by the exact same problems as Wade Phillips and Brad Childress - he actually is a solid coach and offensive coordinator - my point is that he's an idiot when it comes to GM duties and roster management, and he likely will remain an idiot in that regard just as Wade Phillips and Brad Childress remained bad coaches despite people saying "give them another chance - that was an anomaly" after some questionable games.
                    He's not an idiot and he's not a bad coach. He made a couple questionable decisions, and one ****-up (Smith trade(s)). Childress and Phillips were bad because they never had control of their teams. McDaniels has complete control of the Broncos and he's not "losing his players" like Phillips and Childress did. And he won't because of the way he's been building and coaching that team.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Rosebud View Post
                      McDaniels had a great second draft so yeah, he's not an idiot. Those coaches were just bad coaches, their teams won despite them because of their talent, no one in their right mind would suggest Denver has a wealth of talent. If you're really dumb enough to believe that a poorly prepared first time Head Coach can't learn from his mistakes is simply idiotic, especially when McDaniels showed obvious improvements with a great second draft. I mean I can take your flawed logic and assume that because McDaniels had a great draft his second year he'll only have great drafts from now on...would be just as dumb.
                      What has McDaniels done this past offseason to inspire any confidence in the fanbase?

                      - He traded away one of the top 5 running backs of the 2010 season (Peyton Hillis) for chump change (worse, for Brady Quinn) when a running game is exactly what is missing from this team this year. Even if you make the argument that "no one knew what Hillis would do this year", you STILL don't trade him away for nothing, or worse than nothing, which is what Brady Quinn is. Nowhere in any universe is it ever smart to trade ANYTHING for Brady Quinn, much less a running back who has shown flashes of potential in preseason and past seasons with the Broncos, and who obviously goes on to become a beast for Cleveland.

                      - He reached for a project quarterback in the draft (Tebow) in the FIRST round when he a.) probably could have had Tebow later just as Holmgren grabbed Colt McCoy in the third round and b.) a project quarterback was far down on the list of needs the team had going into the 2010 season, and obviously Kyle Orton has played well enough to win games this year, and probably will play well for years to come.

                      - He traded away his best offensive player (Brandon Marshall) for less than a first round pick, and then he goes ahead and spends a first round pick on a WR who was questionable as a first round talent (Demaryius Thomas) and currently can't stay healthy or make any kind of impact, and in the process, passes on Dez Bryant, who looks like the second coming of Andre Johnson so far. Not only could he have selected Dez Bryant with the pick he used on Thomas, but if he hadn't traded Brandon Marshall from the start, he wouldn't have had to blow a first round pick on a WR and instead could have selected a cornerback like Devin McCourty or Kyle Wilson.

                      - I don't know if you want to count Alphonso Smith as part of last year's draft, but obviously, I touched on this before, but he gave up the #14 pick in the 2010 draft to draft this guy in 2009, and in the 2010 draft he could have selected any one of a number of defensive playmakers to fortify his team.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Morton View Post
                        My point is not that he is plagued by the exact same problems as Wade Phillips and Brad Childress - he actually is a solid coach and offensive coordinator - my point is that he's an idiot when it comes to GM duties and roster management, and he likely will remain an idiot in that regard just as Wade Phillips and Brad Childress remained bad coaches despite people saying "give them another chance - that was an anomaly" after some questionable games.

                        My point is that this attitude that people have that discounts terrible decisions such as the Alphonso Smith pick - this attitude of "well, it was his first draft, he'll get better" is the exact same attitude that keeps people employed in positions they are unqualified to be employed in for far too long.

                        Brad Childress and Wade Phillips are coordinators, and not head coaches. It was apparent to smart people long before they were fired that they were not fit for the jobs. It is apparent at this stage that Josh McDaniels is not fit for the GM's job and should be an offensive coordinator, or at best a head coach without personnel power.
                        McDaniels has made some high profile mistakes in evaluating players. If that makes someone an idiot that cant be a HC, then I think you need to look at a lot of other coaches around the league too. Why is that you keep repeating names like Alphonso Smith without once mentioning Brandon Lloyd? McDaniels has turned an absolute joke into a probowl receiver. How is that for evaluating talent? Ayers was panned as a bust of a pick last year by everyone in here, while now even NJX concedes he is turning into at the very least a very good LB. As many bad decisions you made I can name a good one.

                        The fact is McDaniels had no option but to take tired old vets and rookies for his defense as there were only Doom and Champ as worthwhile starters for a 3-4 defense, while DJ Williams was the only other talent and he is suited to 4-3.

                        The McDaniels is an idiot and has to be fired talk is an over reaction by Broncos fans that are not used to being a losing team and other teams fans that hated McDaniels the second the cutler trade happened (most now concede we lost nothing in getting rid of cutler).

                        While I am far from impressed with how we are going right now, and a lot of that is McDaniels fault, there is enough promise there to see this thing out.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          They need to put ten sticks of dynamite in the roster of the Vikings and blow that thing halfway to hell.
                          FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by JaxJag_1 View Post
                            They need to put ten sticks of dynamite in the roster of the Vikings and blow that thing halfway to hell.
                            Build a power run team around AP....

                            But I don't think they're blowing up anytime soon. Given their stadium situation, they'll be compelled to win now. They'll probably keep the team 90% in tact, bring in a new coach, and trade for or sign an old veteran QB (Palmer? McNabb? Hasselbeck? Kevin Kolb??) and try to at least eek out a playoff birth.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Morton View Post
                              What has McDaniels done this past offseason to inspire any confidence in the fanbase?

                              - He traded away one of the top 5 running backs of the 2010 season (Peyton Hillis) for chump change (worse, for Brady Quinn) when a running game is exactly what is missing from this team this year. Even if you make the argument that "no one knew what Hillis would do this year", you STILL don't trade him away for nothing, or worse than nothing, which is what Brady Quinn is. Nowhere in any universe is it ever smart to trade ANYTHING for Brady Quinn, much less a running back who has shown flashes of potential in preseason and past seasons with the Broncos, and who obviously goes on to become a beast for Cleveland.
                              RB is a pretty expendable position compared to QB. He brought in Brady Quinn to see if he could do anything with him. It'd be nice to have Hillis, but that was a decent gamble. Also, Hillis has turned out to be a fumbling machine. The number one mantra of McDaniels' offense is to take care of the ball.

                              - He reached for a project quarterback in the draft (Tebow) in the FIRST round when he a.) probably could have had Tebow later just as Holmgren grabbed Colt McCoy in the third round and b.) a project quarterback was far down on the list of needs the team had going into the 2010 season, and obviously Kyle Orton has played well enough to win games this year, and probably will play well for years to come.
                              He didn't "reach". He went and got the guy he wanted. It's amazing how people don't understand this concept. The Browns obviously weren't that high on McCoy and just took a flier on him later. They never targetted him because if they did, they would have drafted him MUCH earlier in the draft. Whether Tebow works out or not won't be answered for awhile - which is super smart.

                              - He traded away his best offensive player (Brandon Marshall) for less than a first round pick, and then he goes ahead and spends a first round pick on a WR who was questionable as a first round talent (Demaryius Thomas) and currently can't stay healthy or make any kind of impact, and in the process, passes on Dez Bryant, who looks like the second coming of Andre Johnson so far. Not only could he have selected Dez Bryant with the pick he used on Thomas, but if he hadn't traded Brandon Marshall from the start, he wouldn't have had to blow a first round pick on a WR and instead could have selected a cornerback like Devin McCourty or Kyle Wilson.
                              Really? There was no way he could have kept Marshall on that team. That trade is part of why McDaniels is not Wade Phillips or Brad Childress. He maintains control of his team. He passed on Bryant for Thomas for the same reason he traded Marshall. Also, Thomas has been pretty solid, and it's silly to say that one rookie WR is better than another when they've both showed signs. Do you know who Michael Clayton is?

                              - I don't know if you want to count Alphonso Smith as part of last year's draft, but obviously, I touched on this before, but he gave up the #14 pick in the 2010 draft to draft this guy in 2009, and in the 2010 draft he could have selected any one of a number of defensive playmakers to fortify his team.
                              A lot of people thought Smith was worth a Top 15 pick in that draft.
                              You're being silly.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Morton View Post
                                or could have settled on any number of decents backs in the draft that year like McCoy or Brown, or whatever.
                                Brown is terrible.

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