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Tom Brady: The Cautionary Tale

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  • Originally posted by DMWSackMachine View Post
    I was thinking about doing a major writeup on the subject, but I don't think it needs to be spelled out at this point. Be careful when attributing a team's ability to win to a single player, and keep the subject of Super Bowl victories in perspective when discussing the hierarchy of QBs in the history of this league. Tom Brady is a much better QB today than he was in 2004, yet his track record over the last 6 years looks remarkably similar to that of Peyton Manning from 2000 to 20005.

    He's now 4-5 in the playoffs since then, including a mark of just 2-5 against teams that he played in the regular season. Where is his clutchness now? Where is his sense of the moment? Where is his rises-to-the-occasion ability?

    Exactly, all that talk was a bunch of crap then and it is a bunch of crap now. The only thing that Brady lovers are left with now is a load of excuses about how his supporting cast failed him in this situation or that situation, and how he did what he could with what he had yadda yadda yadda.

    In other words, its a team game and you win as a team. Brady is a very good QB, maybe even great. However, he has yet to bring his team back from any sizable deficit to win a playoff game (and I struggle to remember a time he's done it in the regular season, but I'm sure its happened....right?) and tonight, when the game was on the line and his team needed 7 points, all he could come up with was a FG. The best QBs, the Elways, Montanas, Staubachs, Unitases and, yes, Mannings are able to bring their teams back in that situation. Brady couldn't do it. Brady never has done it.

    But if you are tied and need 3 points to win the game....hey, he's your man.
    The Patriots have had their success behind the coaching of Bill Belichick and the mantra "Do Your Job."

    Anybody "attributing a team's ability to win to a single player" is sadly mistaken. The fact that you created a thread based on this notion is silly, and makes me think of the famous adage "never argue with a fool . . . "

    Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs

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    • And the fact that you make a post suggesting that its ludicrous for me to create such a thread with overtones of bitterness and hostility in your words, makes me think that you really don't mean what you just said. Or maybe you just have your head in the sand and haven't heard the last 7 years of everyone and their dog giving Brady all the credit for those Super Bowl victories.

      Either way, it sounds like we have the same assessment of the team, so there shouldn't be any arguments.
      Originally posted by 21ST
      He was protecting his self
      Originally posted by tjsunstein
      From what? His leg?
      Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck
      That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
      "We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

      DeMarcus Ware

      Comment


      • Originally posted by FlyingElvis View Post
        The Patriots have had their success behind the coaching of Bill Belichick and the mantra "Do Your Job."

        Anybody "attributing a team's ability to win to a single player" is sadly mistaken. The fact that you created a thread based on this notion is silly, and makes me think of the famous adage "never argue with a fool . . . "
        Wait a second...so all the patriot fans who said that Brady's 3 super bowl wins were what made him better than Manning were wrong because they werent Brady's super bowls, they were won by the Patriots? Gee, people have been saying that for...years? Sorry about sounding like a dick, i agree with what you said 100%. Just because the media spews the 'qb who wins the super bowl is best' bs doesnt make it remotely true. What if Sanchez wins the super bowl this year? Do we annoint him as this great qb or do we realize hes a part of a great team?

        Ive been saying forever that qb is important yes but winning super bowls are overrated for qb's. Teams win championships, not individuals. Tom Brady didnt beat the Rams, the New England Patriots did. Peyton Manning didnt beat the Bears, the Indianapolis Colts did.
        Originally posted by Thumper/JBCX/Bixby
        Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by njx9
          so the answer is a resounding 'no, i have nothing compelling whatsoever to offer and am just trolling.'

          thanks, i'm stoked i didn't waste my time.

          This coming from the guy who has never written anything compelling in his life, but feels the need to say "NO YOU ARE WRONG" in every thread.

          I learned to not argue with you, because you won't go at my argument, you'll dance around in circles, put words in my mouth, and argue semantics.
          Originally posted by SNIPER26
          fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DMWSackMachine View Post


            There is certainly a mark against Peyton for his playoff performances, and I'm not going to apologize for them. But lets remember, every team he's faced has gone in thinking that they just had to stop Peyton to beat the Colts. He's the only person on that list who won a Super Bowl under such conditions.
            So when Brady won his superbowls people were saying lets stop antowne(Sp?) smith and we beat the pats? Peyton was stopped in his superbowl run, he had 3 TDs and 7 INts in 4 playoff games. Peyton has choked to many times to be considered better than Brady.

            People like to blame the Colts D for Peytons loses but in 7 (8 maybe more if you count all the INTs that were returned for TDs) of his playoff loses the colts oppents were held to 24 points or less.

            Peyton should thank the broncos and Cheifs for padding his playoff stats.

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            • Originally posted by njx9
              i didn't know i had a stalker.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by hockey619 View Post
                Wait a second...so all the patriot fans who said that Brady's 3 super bowl wins were what made him better than Manning were wrong because they werent Brady's super bowls, they were won by the Patriots? Gee, people have been saying that for...years? Sorry about sounding like a dick, i agree with what you said 100%. Just because the media spews the 'qb who wins the super bowl is best' bs doesnt make it remotely true. What if Sanchez wins the super bowl this year? Do we annoint him as this great qb or do we realize hes a part of a great team?

                Ive been saying forever that qb is important yes but winning super bowls are overrated for qb's. Teams win championships, not individuals. Tom Brady didnt beat the Rams, the New England Patriots did. Peyton Manning didnt beat the Bears, the Indianapolis Colts did.
                That's just not how it works though. I agree with what you're saying, but QB's are held most responsible. They get the glory for winning and are the goats for losing (for the most part). It's the most important position in Football. Or well at least it's viewed as such.

                The QB is the face of the franchise and therefore a lot of the credit goes in their direction. Is it fair? No. Without a good defense and special teams it's extremely hard for a QB to win, but it is what it is and there's not much we can do about it.

                The value of the QB position is so far above anyone else on the field. Why do you think GM's are willing to take a chance on a 'possible franchise QB' with sure things on the board?

                Example: Bradford over Suh.


                Another sig courtesy of BoneKrusher

                Originally posted by JBCX
                Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.

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                • Originally posted by tuan33 View Post
                  That super bowl Reggie White and the Pack's special team just killed the Patriots. Favre really didn't need to do anything special to win that game.
                  Please, just shut up.

                  It took him all of two plays to do something special. Second play of the game for the Packers, Favre sees something in the Patriots defense, audibles, and throws a perfect 54 yard TD to Andre Rison.

                  The Packers got up 10-0, but then the defense let the Patriots take the lead 14-10. Two drives after their second TD, Favre throws an 81 yard TD to Freeman, for the (then) longest TD pass in Super Bowl history.

                  He also had a running TD, and threw for a successful two point conversion.

                  Comment


                  • ****, Matt Stover did more for the Ravens than Dilfer did and no one mentions the former having a ring. Dilfer's career isn't viewed as a failure because he road on the coattails of a dominant defense and run game, but he played QB and there en lies the value of the position. Or at least the perception of the position and its value.


                    Another sig courtesy of BoneKrusher

                    Originally posted by JBCX
                    Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.

                    Comment


                    • People got bored of the Dilfer example. It seems like everyone has finally stopped using the "but Dilfer has a ring" example.

                      Thanks to The Dynasty for the sig

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                      • Originally posted by sweetness34 View Post
                        If Big Ben wins another ring does he get considering for being a top 5 QB? I know he's had an elite defense and talent around him offensively, but he makes big plays in big games consistently. There's no doubt in my mind that I'm giving the ball to either he and Brady with the game on the line.

                        His team puts him in good positions and he takes advantage of his opportunities. That to me is the sign of a great QB.
                        I think Ben could move into the top ten with another ring, and passes Bradshaw as best Steeler QB but I still need to see him have a few seasons where he is considered the best QB in the game. He's had strong seasons not the earth shattering, elite season that the other top guns have had (Brady 07, Manning 04, Montana 89, Marino 84, etc.)
                        aka KGB Chicken

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                        • Originally posted by Complex View Post
                          So when Brady won his superbowls people were saying lets stop antowne(Sp?) smith and we beat the pats? Peyton was stopped in his superbowl run, he had 3 TDs and 7 INts in 4 playoff games. Peyton has choked to many times to be considered better than Brady.

                          People like to blame the Colts D for Peytons loses but in 7 (8 maybe more if you count all the INTs that were returned for TDs) of his playoff loses the colts oppents were held to 24 points or less.

                          Peyton should thank the broncos and Cheifs for padding his playoff stats.

                          Yes, actually. They were saying let's stop Antowain Smith. http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/200202...nalyze#analyze

                          Unless you think that Tom and his 145 yards and 5.4 YPA average were keeping them up at night. (10-18 for 92 yards through the first 58.5 minutes of the game, btw)

                          I don't just blame the Colts D. There's a lot of it to go around. Jim Mora Sr. was one of the most inept offensive HCs of all time and was terrible at making adjustments in game. There's a reason why he got fired despite having a very solid W/L record and taking his team to the playoffs every year. The OL got routinely dominated in those years. Edge couldn't get anything going. The defense couldn't make any plays and get Peyton in favorable positions....and, yes, Peyton made some poor throws, wasn't able to make his reads quick enough (or at all) and probably got a little overwhelmed with the pressure. But even with all that, if Petyon had the luxury of playing a poor game but still being able to take the field with 2:00 to go, score tied and just needing to lead his team to a FG, do you think he wouldn't be able to do so? Oh, wait, we saw that story already. Here's how it played out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1HPE...eature=related
                          Originally posted by 21ST
                          He was protecting his self
                          Originally posted by tjsunstein
                          From what? His leg?
                          Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck
                          That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
                          "We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

                          DeMarcus Ware

                          Comment


                          • I agree with you DMW. When Brady needed to make a play he wasn't able to make the play when he needed to, granted the Jets D is tough but that is what you expect out of him.


                            But what do we ALWAYS see out of Big Ben? When the Ravens were ready to pounce, Ben leads them down the field for the go ahead TD, not a FG. And he ALWAYS does it too. It's time to really start giving him credit, he's probably the best QB in the league right now when the game is on the line, and I don't think he's any worse then 3rd best QB in the NFL right now.


                            Rodgers has been simply amazing and maybe he'll be #1 after this post-season, I'd really like a Big Ben/ARod SB though to add some flame to that debate. But I can't argue with Brady looking pretty shaky, but at the same time he wasn't gonna win 8 SB's and whoever thought he was was kidding yourself. He still might win 2 more and then what will we say?


                            He didn't come through in the clutch, he's not as clutch as Ben, but I don't see any reason to bash him too hard. He has been mediocre in the post-season as of late, but I think all this shows is you just have to be hot at the right time.





                            Originally posted by Scott Wright
                            I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by San Diego Chicken View Post
                              I think Ben could move into the top ten with another ring, and passes Bradshaw as best Steeler QB but I still need to see him have a few seasons where he is considered the best QB in the game. He's had strong seasons not the earth shattering, elite season that the other top guns have had (Brady 07, Manning 04, Montana 89, Marino 84, etc.)
                              I hear this knock against Ben alot, and I had it also, but let's be honest. Playing for the Steelers how many chances is he gonna have to throw it enough to be a dominant QB on the stat sheet? His impact doesn't even show up on the stat sheet. There are just too many times you need a big play, in the clutch, he makes it. He makes it vs tough defenses also, no matter who he is facing.


                              I don't know how the Steelers won't win 2-3 more SB's with Ben as QB if the defense continues to play as well as they are. And I have no problem if someone wants to give credit to that D, but let's not ignore all the big plays he needs to make to win games either.





                              Originally posted by Scott Wright
                              I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

                              Comment


                              • I'm not a big fan of Elway simply because of the rivalry but the guy did defy some odds. He literally was the only skilled guy on his teams during their earlier Superbowl runs. You want to talk about a team relying on their quarterback, take a long hard look at Elway and what he was able to accomplish by himself with literally no talent.

                                It's hard to list QBs so I'll go in no particular order the ones that I respect:
                                Montana
                                Elway
                                Peyton
                                Marino
                                Aikman (yeah I know)
                                Last edited by Xenos; 01-18-2011, 10:31 PM.

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