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Which Corner is the best in the NFC East?

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  • #46
    i'm a not a fan of the boys, eagles or skins but Sheldon Brown is the best CB in this division

    Comment


    • #47
      Shocker, Cowboys are always ahead in the polls. I wonder why.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Texico From Mexico
        Originally posted by MossRandleElLloyd
        The over abundance of Boys fans on here makes the vote sway to Newman...polls dont work on NFLDC.

        We all know who is the best corner in the NFCE.
        Yes we do, its Newman of course. This board is just full of Cowboys haters...what is it that you hate so much? That we are the most sucessful team since 1960? That we have won 5 superbowls and been to 8? That we are called Americas Team? That we had a QB called Captain Comeback? That we are loved all over the world more than any other NFL franchise? Why all the anger anytime a Cowboy player is mentioned on this board? Why all the crying anytime a Cowboy player wins in a poll? A blind man can see all the bias in a New York minute...hey are some of you guys actually HOF voters in disguise?
        Why are they so hated? Because they get every damn call they can get. Refs do whatever they can to sway things the Cowboys way. Ask any sane Lions fan about the game last year. Ask any sane Redskin fan which way the refs favor in the games. Hate is too weak of a word to describe my distaste for the Cowboys. A good portion of the fans are also extremely cocky and arrogant about their team.

        I'd take Sheldon Brown, because I can and because I think he's the best corner in the NFC East.


        RIP TheManInBlack

        Comment


        • #49
          I'm not sure about who the best corner in the east is right now. What I can't get past is all the people saying Newman is so overrated. Please, one of you please explain to me what the job of a corner is, and then tell me where Newman was lacking last year. What was his deficiency? How can he be overrated when he didn't even make the pro bowl? What more can we ask of him? Just because he is dominating this poll doesn't make him overrated. Polls on here are worthless. What makes him underrated, is the fact that nobody (outside of dallas fans) mentions him among the elite corners, (when you watch a Cowboys game, what member of the secondary has everybody on his nuts?) when his play would indicate otherwise. I laugh when people mention Lito Sheppard as elite, while ignoring Newman. If Newman isn't best in the East, he's neck and neck with Sheldon Brown and Shawn Springs. Tough for me to say. I like all 3. Fact is, the most indispensible member of the Dallas secondary is Newman, not Roy Williams. Newman is more deserving of a trip to Hawaii, IMO.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by duckseason
            I'm not sure about who the best corner in the east is right now. What I can't get past is all the people saying Newman is so overrated. Please, one of you please explain to me what the job of a corner is, and then tell me where Newman was lacking last year. What was his deficiency? How can he be overrated when he didn't even make the pro bowl? What more can we ask of him? Just because he is dominating this poll doesn't make him overrated. Polls on here are worthless. What makes him underrated, is the fact that nobody (outside of dallas fans) mentions him among the elite corners, (when you watch a Cowboys game, what member of the secondary has everybody on his nuts?) when his play would indicate otherwise. I laugh when people mention Lito Sheppard as elite, while ignoring Newman. If Newman isn't best in the East, he's neck and neck with Sheldon Brown and Shawn Springs. Tough for me to say. I like all 3. Fact is, the most indispensible member of the Dallas secondary is Newman, not Roy Williams. Newman is more deserving of a trip to Hawaii, IMO.
            well said, i agree with everything here.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by duckseason
              I'm not sure about who the best corner in the east is right now. What I can't get past is all the people saying Newman is so overrated. Please, one of you please explain to me what the job of a corner is, and then tell me where Newman was lacking last year. What was his deficiency? How can he be overrated when he didn't even make the pro bowl? What more can we ask of him? Just because he is dominating this poll doesn't make him overrated. Polls on here are worthless. What makes him underrated, is the fact that nobody (outside of dallas fans) mentions him among the elite corners, (when you watch a Cowboys game, what member of the secondary has everybody on his nuts?) when his play would indicate otherwise. I laugh when people mention Lito Sheppard as elite, while ignoring Newman. If Newman isn't best in the East, he's neck and neck with Sheldon Brown and Shawn Springs. Tough for me to say. I like all 3. Fact is, the most indispensible member of the Dallas secondary is Newman, not Roy Williams. Newman is more deserving of a trip to Hawaii, IMO.
              I'm not saying he's bad, he is a very solid starter. He gets his job done very well, but I wouldn't say he is better than Brown. Brown breaks up more passes, and doesn't give up as many receptions. He is better in coverage, while he isn't as fast as Newman, he is better at blitzing and is excellent in run support. The weak link in the Eagles secondary last season at least was Lito Sheppard, he gave up a lot of big plays. Newman didn't give up many td's because it was much easier to just throw the ball over Roy Williams, or other less talented members of the secondary. IMO he is a good cornerback, but on this site he is overrated. Not by everyone, just a few select cowboy fans. He is not a shutdown corner, and not a top 5 corner like some say, but to be fair neither is Brown. Both are good corners, but Brown is more well rounded then Newman.

              Comment


              • #52
                Sheldon Brown

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by cunningham06
                  Originally posted by duckseason
                  I'm not sure about who the best corner in the east is right now. What I can't get past is all the people saying Newman is so overrated. Please, one of you please explain to me what the job of a corner is, and then tell me where Newman was lacking last year. What was his deficiency? How can he be overrated when he didn't even make the pro bowl? What more can we ask of him? Just because he is dominating this poll doesn't make him overrated. Polls on here are worthless. What makes him underrated, is the fact that nobody (outside of dallas fans) mentions him among the elite corners, (when you watch a Cowboys game, what member of the secondary has everybody on his nuts?) when his play would indicate otherwise. I laugh when people mention Lito Sheppard as elite, while ignoring Newman. If Newman isn't best in the East, he's neck and neck with Sheldon Brown and Shawn Springs. Tough for me to say. I like all 3. Fact is, the most indispensible member of the Dallas secondary is Newman, not Roy Williams. Newman is more deserving of a trip to Hawaii, IMO.
                  I'm not saying he's bad, he is a very solid starter. He gets his job done very well, but I wouldn't say he is better than Brown. Brown breaks up more passes, and doesn't give up as many receptions. He is better in coverage, while he isn't as fast as Newman, he is better at blitzing and is excellent in run support. The weak link in the Eagles secondary last season at least was Lito Sheppard, he gave up a lot of big plays. Newman didn't give up many td's because it was much easier to just throw the ball over Roy Williams, or other less talented members of the secondary. IMO he is a good cornerback, but on this site he is overrated. Not by everyone, just a few select cowboy fans. He is not a shutdown corner, and not a top 5 corner like some say, but to be fair neither is Brown. Both are good corners, but Brown is more well rounded then Newman.
                  Um, :roll: , I don't know wtf you are talking about. Here is what the deal is:

                  There once was a little boy named Baskalonis (or something like that) who developed a severe boy crush on a football player named Terence Newman. Balaskonis was a talkative boy, and would often go about proclaiming his love for Newman on every forum he visited. Along the way, Balaskonis pis$ed a lot of people of because of the stupid ridiculous statements he made, and the homeric way in which he proclaimed his love for Newman. The result of his spewing was that people actually ended up hating the person that he loved so much. The End.

                  Newman is by no means "overrated" on these boards. When the majority of people say that someone is overrated, then they can not- by definition- actually be overrated. The ultimate example of this is Michael Vick. His name comes up in every single "overrated" thread on this board. The only difference between him and Newman is that the national media still rides his jock. So, by THAT standard, he still kinda is overrated, but definately not by the fans.

                  Balaskonis is the only person that overrates Newman. The only one, and that is only because he thinks that he is basically as good as Deion in his prime. Because of that little twit, everyone on here actually hates Newman, if anything. Except Cowboy fans, that is.

                  The reason why we value him so highly is because we actually watch all the games. The media doesn't. They follow the highlight reels, they look at boxscores and they write about the obvious. The way Newman plays is not conducive to this sort of attention. He straps it up, shuts up, and shuts 'em down. Anyone who consistently watches the Cowboys thinks this same thing. Last year, we had two Pro Bowlers on defense. Yet, all the local media, all the fans and the coaching staff all concur that he was hands down our defensive MVP. Go figure that out.
                  Originally posted by 21ST
                  He was protecting his self
                  Originally posted by tjsunstein
                  From what? His leg?
                  Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck
                  That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
                  "We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

                  DeMarcus Ware

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by DMWSackMachine
                    Originally posted by cunningham06
                    Originally posted by duckseason
                    I'm not sure about who the best corner in the east is right now. What I can't get past is all the people saying Newman is so overrated. Please, one of you please explain to me what the job of a corner is, and then tell me where Newman was lacking last year. What was his deficiency? How can he be overrated when he didn't even make the pro bowl? What more can we ask of him? Just because he is dominating this poll doesn't make him overrated. Polls on here are worthless. What makes him underrated, is the fact that nobody (outside of dallas fans) mentions him among the elite corners, (when you watch a Cowboys game, what member of the secondary has everybody on his nuts?) when his play would indicate otherwise. I laugh when people mention Lito Sheppard as elite, while ignoring Newman. If Newman isn't best in the East, he's neck and neck with Sheldon Brown and Shawn Springs. Tough for me to say. I like all 3. Fact is, the most indispensible member of the Dallas secondary is Newman, not Roy Williams. Newman is more deserving of a trip to Hawaii, IMO.
                    I'm not saying he's bad, he is a very solid starter. He gets his job done very well, but I wouldn't say he is better than Brown. Brown breaks up more passes, and doesn't give up as many receptions. He is better in coverage, while he isn't as fast as Newman, he is better at blitzing and is excellent in run support. The weak link in the Eagles secondary last season at least was Lito Sheppard, he gave up a lot of big plays. Newman didn't give up many td's because it was much easier to just throw the ball over Roy Williams, or other less talented members of the secondary. IMO he is a good cornerback, but on this site he is overrated. Not by everyone, just a few select cowboy fans. He is not a shutdown corner, and not a top 5 corner like some say, but to be fair neither is Brown. Both are good corners, but Brown is more well rounded then Newman.
                    Um, :roll: , I don't know wtf you are talking about. Here is what the deal is:

                    There once was a little boy named Baskalonis (or something like that) who developed a severe boy crush on a football player named Terence Newman. Balaskonis was a talkative boy, and would often go about proclaiming his love for Newman on every forum he visited. Along the way, Balaskonis pis$ed a lot of people of because of the stupid ridiculous statements he made, and the homeric way in which he proclaimed his love for Newman. The result of his spewing was that people actually ended up hating the person that he loved so much. The End.

                    Newman is by no means "overrated" on these boards. When the majority of people say that someone is overrated, then they can not- by definition- actually be overrated. The ultimate example of this is Michael Vick. His name comes up in every single "overrated" thread on this board. The only difference between him and Newman is that the national media still rides his jock. So, by THAT standard, he still kinda is overrated, but definately not by the fans.

                    Balaskonis is the only person that overrates Newman. The only one, and that is only because he thinks that he is basically as good as Deion in his prime. Because of that little twit, everyone on here actually hates Newman, if anything. Except Cowboy fans, that is.

                    The reason why we value him so highly is because we actually watch all the games. The media doesn't. They follow the highlight reels, they look at boxscores and they write about the obvious. The way Newman plays is not conducive to this sort of attention. He straps it up, shuts up, and shuts 'em down. Anyone who consistently watches the Cowboys thinks this same thing. Last year, we had two Pro Bowlers on defense. Yet, all the local media, all the fans and the coaching staff all concur that he was hands down our defensive MVP. Go figure that out.
                    I watch plenty of cowboys games, as they most are televised since I live in Texas. I watch all of the teams in the NFC East very closely. I really hope that you aren't serious about saying he is a shutdown corner, because he isn't at all. On these forums I say he is overrated, just take a look at the polls. The best corners in the NFC East are
                    1. Sheldon Brown
                    2. Shawn Springs
                    3. Terence Newman
                    You can call me a homer for saying Sheldon is better, but plenty of non Eagles fans agree with me, but Shawn Springs is also better than Terence Newman. I don't like either team over the other, but Springs is a better cornerback than Terence Newman.

                    So how exactly is Newman better than either Springs or Brown? So far all I've heard is that he is because he is.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Oh god Sheldon Brown isn't winning.
                      Ohio State Buckeyes Duke Blue Devils New York Jets St. Louis Cardinals San Jose Sharks Seattle Mariners

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        I went Sheldon Brown on this one. I would take either Eagles CB over Newman.
                        #Chop


                        sig by BoneKrusher

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          iv been watchin shawn springs shut down TO for a long time. i'll take springs.

                          sig by CalBears99
                          Originally posted by yodachu
                          I HAVE ISSUES! :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by The Fat Kid
                            iv been watchin shawn springs shut down TO for a long time. i'll take springs.
                            He really shut him down last season, since he didn't get to play either game against the skins. But he has in the past done an excellent job against TO, but I believe he also had some safety help.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by cunningham06
                              Originally posted by DMWSackMachine

                              Um, :roll: , I don't know wtf you are talking about. Here is what the deal is:

                              There once was a little boy named Baskalonis (or something like that) who developed a severe boy crush on a football player named Terence Newman. Balaskonis was a talkative boy, and would often go about proclaiming his love for Newman on every forum he visited. Along the way, Balaskonis pis$ed a lot of people of because of the stupid ridiculous statements he made, and the homeric way in which he proclaimed his love for Newman. The result of his spewing was that people actually ended up hating the person that he loved so much. The End.

                              Newman is by no means "overrated" on these boards. When the majority of people say that someone is overrated, then they can not- by definition- actually be overrated. The ultimate example of this is Michael Vick. His name comes up in every single "overrated" thread on this board. The only difference between him and Newman is that the national media still rides his jock. So, by THAT standard, he still kinda is overrated, but definately not by the fans.

                              Balaskonis is the only person that overrates Newman. The only one, and that is only because he thinks that he is basically as good as Deion in his prime. Because of that little twit, everyone on here actually hates Newman, if anything. Except Cowboy fans, that is.

                              The reason why we value him so highly is because we actually watch all the games. The media doesn't. They follow the highlight reels, they look at boxscores and they write about the obvious. The way Newman plays is not conducive to this sort of attention. He straps it up, shuts up, and shuts 'em down. Anyone who consistently watches the Cowboys thinks this same thing. Last year, we had two Pro Bowlers on defense. Yet, all the local media, all the fans and the coaching staff all concur that he was hands down our defensive MVP. Go figure that out.
                              I watch plenty of cowboys games, as they most are televised since I live in Texas. I watch all of the teams in the NFC East very closely. I really hope that you aren't serious about saying he is a shutdown corner, because he isn't at all. On these forums I say he is overrated, just take a look at the polls. The best corners in the NFC East are
                              1. Sheldon Brown
                              2. Shawn Springs
                              3. Terence Newman
                              You can call me a homer for saying Sheldon is better, but plenty of non Eagles fans agree with me, but Shawn Springs is also better than Terence Newman. I don't like either team over the other, but Springs is a better cornerback than Terence Newman.

                              So how exactly is Newman better than either Springs or Brown? So far all I've heard is that he is because he is.
                              And all you've said is that he's not because he's not. Lol. I mean, c'mon. I (as well as, I assume, a lot of people on these forums) am a regular subscriber to the Ticket and I watch a ton of games, ok? I watch all the NFC East closely because that is my division, and I watch the Skins a lot because I hate them with such a passion. So I have a very good idea of what I'm talking about.

                              Unfortunately, in this particular discussion, there aren't a lot of concrete, substantial facts that can be quoted. You can't use interceptions, tackles or (to a lesser extent) pass deflections to gauge a CBs value, because the no. 1 priority for a cornerback is to make sure that his man does not catch the ball. The best way to do that, is by covering so well that the QB refuses to throw your way. So, essentially, the ultimate cornerback would have a total of 0 balls thrown his way, and thus would have no ints, pass deflections, and very few tackles.

                              Therefore, you can't use hard stats as a measuring stick. All you can do is keep them in mind as a very shaky component of the overall evaluation. Cornerback, more than any other position on defense, imo, is most easily evaluated by simply observing. Most of the time, no new is good news. So if you aren't hearing about or seeing a CB in on a lot of plays then that usually means that he is doing a very good job. And when he IS tested, then he must demonstrate an ability to make a play.

                              If you simply must have a stat to back this up, I have two that are readily available. I'm sure you are familiar with KC Joyner, from ESPN. He is basically a professional statistician who watches games play by play and breaks them down into categories. From this information, he forms unique "metrics" that are designed to more accurately measure players at different positions according to more specific criteria than we are used to seeing. One of these is comp % against for CBs. He wrote about this last year, and gave stats from 2004. Here are a list of the top 10 corners in the league in comp% against for 2004:

                              1. Dre' Bly -- 36.5 percent
                              2. Mike McKenzie -- 40.8 percent
                              3. Eric Warfield -- 44.0 percent
                              4. Shawn Springs -- 44.6 percent
                              5. Deltha O'Neal -- 44.8 percent
                              6. Will Peterson -- 44.9 percent
                              7. Asante Samuel -- 46.2 percent
                              8. Terence Newman -- 46.6 percent
                              9. Al Harris -- 47.4 percent
                              10. Nate Clements -- 47.7 percent

                              So, according to this particular standard, it would seem that Newman is a top 10 CB, while Springs is just a smidge better than him. However, there is a modification that he makes to these rankings called "missed passes", or in other words, passes where the QB simply made a bad throw that the reciever had no way of catching. Here were the top 10 in missed passes (or the bottom 10, depending on how you look at it):

                              80. Sheldon Brown -- 41
                              79. Jerametrius Butler -- 31
                              78. Terrence McGee -- 31
                              77. Shawn Springs -- 27
                              76. Lito Sheppard -- 25
                              75. David Macklin -- 25
                              74. Deshea Townsend -- 24
                              73. Dre' Bly -- 21
                              72. Eric Warfield -- 20
                              71. Gary Baxter -- 20

                              So, while Springs was above Newman slightly in comp%, he was also the beneficiary of a lot of bad throws from the QB. Now, this brings the pass-rush into play, because bad passes are often the result of pressure on the QB, and we all know that there isn't a CB in the league that can cover for 5 seconds. So there is no way to measure a CB in a vacuum. A lot of it is subjective judgment. But here is a stat that suggests Newman as a top CB, and this was in a year that he was clearly struggling. Imagine how good he was last year.
                              Originally posted by 21ST
                              He was protecting his self
                              Originally posted by tjsunstein
                              From what? His leg?
                              Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck
                              That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
                              "We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

                              DeMarcus Ware

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by DMWSackMachine
                                Originally posted by cunningham06
                                I watch plenty of cowboys games, as they most are televised since I live in Texas. I watch all of the teams in the NFC East very closely. I really hope that you aren't serious about saying he is a shutdown corner, because he isn't at all. On these forums I say he is overrated, just take a look at the polls. The best corners in the NFC East are
                                1. Sheldon Brown
                                2. Shawn Springs
                                3. Terence Newman
                                You can call me a homer for saying Sheldon is better, but plenty of non Eagles fans agree with me, but Shawn Springs is also better than Terence Newman. I don't like either team over the other, but Springs is a better cornerback than Terence Newman.

                                So how exactly is Newman better than either Springs or Brown? So far all I've heard is that he is because he is
                                .
                                And all you've said is that he's not because he's not. Lol. I mean, c'mon. I (as well as, I assume, a lot of people on these forums) am a regular subscriber to the Ticket and I watch a ton of games, ok? I watch all the NFC East closely because that is my division, and I watch the Skins a lot because I hate them with such a passion. So I have a very good idea of what I'm talking about.

                                Unfortunately, in this particular discussion, there aren't a lot of concrete, substantial facts that can be quoted. You can't use interceptions, tackles or (to a lesser extent) pass deflections to gauge a CBs value, because the no. 1 priority for a cornerback is to make sure that his man does not catch the ball. The best way to do that, is by covering so well that the QB refuses to throw your way. So, essentially, the ultimate cornerback would have a total of 0 balls thrown his way, and thus would have no ints, pass deflections, and very few tackles.

                                Therefore, you can't use hard stats as a measuring stick. All you can do is keep them in mind as a very shaky component of the overall evaluation. Cornerback, more than any other position on defense, imo, is most easily evaluated by simply observing. Most of the time, no new is good news. So if you aren't hearing about or seeing a CB in on a lot of plays then that usually means that he is doing a very good job. And when he IS tested, then he must demonstrate an ability to make a play.

                                If you simply must have a stat to back this up, I have two that are readily available. I'm sure you are familiar with KC Joyner, from ESPN. He is basically a professional statistician who watches games play by play and breaks them down into categories. From this information, he forms unique "metrics" that are designed to more accurately measure players at different positions according to more specific criteria than we are used to seeing. One of these is comp % against for CBs. He wrote about this last year, and gave stats from 2004. Here are a list of the top 10 corners in the league in comp% against for 2004:

                                1. Dre' Bly -- 36.5 percent
                                2. Mike McKenzie -- 40.8 percent
                                3. Eric Warfield -- 44.0 percent
                                4. Shawn Springs -- 44.6 percent
                                5. Deltha O'Neal -- 44.8 percent
                                6. Will Peterson -- 44.9 percent
                                7. Asante Samuel -- 46.2 percent
                                8. Terence Newman -- 46.6 percent
                                9. Al Harris -- 47.4 percent
                                10. Nate Clements -- 47.7 percent

                                So, according to this particular standard, it would seem that Newman is a top 10 CB, while Springs is just a smidge better than him. However, there is a modification that he makes to these rankings called "missed passes", or in other words, passes where the QB simply made a bad throw that the reciever had no way of catching. Here were the top 10 in missed passes (or the bottom 10, depending on how you look at it):

                                80. Sheldon Brown -- 41
                                79. Jerametrius Butler -- 31
                                78. Terrence McGee -- 31
                                77. Shawn Springs -- 27
                                76. Lito Sheppard -- 25
                                75. David Macklin -- 25
                                74. Deshea Townsend -- 24
                                73. Dre' Bly -- 21
                                72. Eric Warfield -- 20
                                71. Gary Baxter -- 20

                                So, while Springs was above Newman slightly in comp%, he was also the beneficiary of a lot of bad throws from the QB. Now, this brings the pass-rush into play, because bad passes are often the result of pressure on the QB, and we all know that there isn't a CB in the league that can cover for 5 seconds. So there is no way to measure a CB in a vacuum. A lot of it is subjective judgment. But here is a stat that suggests Newman as a top CB, and this was in a year that he was clearly struggling. Imagine how good he was last year
                                .
                                Excellent post. Couldn't have said it better myself.
                                I wish more people around here (and in general) viewed the game through the same lenses that you have prescribed for yourself.
                                It really is ridiculous for people to form their entire opinions on players/teams solely off conventional statistics. Sadly, this way of thinking seems to encompass the vast majority of NFL fans. There are many statistics out there (such as those you referenced) that can be used to more accurately interpret the game than things such as INT's, and total yards.
                                Most people don't realize how much lies beneath the surface. It's just- "Shaun Alexander is the MVP! He broke the TD record, therefore he is the best RB in the game! He's the freakin' MVP!" Uh....no. The Seattle Seahawks had one of the best ground games in the league last year, and Alexander was a part of that. Same thing with Newman, but in reverse. "What?! Newman isn't even that good! He only had 3 INT's and 14 PD's! Are you crazy? He's average at best! So overrated!" In reality he is among the league's elite CB's. A true shutdown corner, and all you have to do to realize this fact, is WATCH THE DAMN GAME! (with a keen eye)... Again, great post.

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