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The Jack Lambert Appreciation Thread

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ward View Post
    Hollywood Henderson. :D
    In all honesty, he had the potential. But he threw it away.

    Ya know, for the Cowboys being a storied franchise, theyre not particularly strong historically at the LB position. I found that a little odd. Especially with Landry as HC for so many years. He built his 4-3 flex around the linebacker position.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
      I have mixed feelings about a lot of the upper-tier linebackers. On the one hand, Butkus was basically a one man defense his whole career while Lambert had Green, Ham, etc.

      On the other hand, Lambert won 4 Superbowls while Butkus never made the playoffs.

      I also agree that Ham was much better than Lambert. Lambert to me is similar to Swann and Bradshaw (or Troy Aikman) in that he is overhyped due to being on high profile teams and being charismatic.

      That being said, I don't think either is the best MLB of all time.

      My vote goes to this guy:



      He's Samurai Mike, he's stop 'em cold. Part of the defense, big and bold.
      This guy is my favorite MIKE, but I don't think he was the best ever. He's arguably the smartest ever, but I don't know if he's the best. Top 5 no doubt. Maybe top 3.

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      • #18
        One important thing that Urlacher pointed out in a sit down interview with Butkus that a lot of people don't appreciate is that they can't tackle like that anymore. They would get arrested.

        So while BBD likes to get his rocks off to flashy hits, and for someone that knows a lot about the linebacker position tends to simplify it a bit too much, it's changed too much to use highlights films to get your point across.


        Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.

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        • #19
          Another thing worth noting is that Butkus revolutionized the MLB position (with Bill George before him) because George Halas realized that you could adjust a scheme and get a huge guy (Butkus was bigger than some lineman of his era) that would just scare the piss out of everyone across from him.

          You could take that to add to Butkus' legacy or take away from it based on your perspective.


          Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
            One important thing that Urlacher pointed out in a sit down interview with Butkus that a lot of people don't appreciate is that they can't tackle like that anymore. They would get arrested.

            So while BBD likes to get his rocks off to flashy hits, and for someone that knows a lot about the linebacker position tends to simplify it a bit too much, it's changed too much to use highlights films to get your point across.
            Why do you gotta spoil my fun all the time? lol.

            Yes, I know. But what else can I show? Some of these guys have never even seen him at all.

            And anyway, if I get too complex, people will just skip over my post and say to themselves "im not reading all of that". So sometimes I gotta cut back on what I want to say.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
              Another thing worth noting is that Butkus revolutionized the MLB position (with Bill George before him) because George Halas realized that you could adjust a scheme and get a huge guy (Butkus was bigger than some lineman of his era) that would just scare the piss out of everyone across from him.

              You could take that to add to Butkus' legacy or take away from it based on your perspective.
              Ive always felt that the MLB should be a suffocator. He's the guy who stops the run, and knocks guys out up the middle of the field. I don't think anyone did that better than Butkus. He's the prototype.

              Of course the position has changed since then, and continues to change, but Im still a fan of the sledgehammer MIKEs. Let the OLBs cover, the MIKE is there to be a run thumper. Thats how I feel about the position.

              Thats another reason why I like 3-4 ILBs so much. Theyre built like old school MIKEs. You don't see many sledgehammer types in the 4-3 anymore. Nowadays, 4-3 MIKEs are smaller and quicker.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by njx9
                why, in your opinion?
                Well I think he's the best of the new breed. At the front of the vanguard if you will.

                One could make a case for Ray Lewis too, but I think his flame burnt out too fast.

                As I stated before, I think people tend to overate the massive hits that Butkus and Lambert laid because they played in an era in which the defense had MUCH more leniancy from the league in terms of rules. If you could tackle a guy by choking him or taking a forearm to his face I promise you guys like Urlacher and Merriman would have flashier highlights films.

                Also, Singletary was, as BBD pointed out, probably the smartest linebacker to ever play the position. He ran the 46 like a maestro, and I tend to value intelligence over power at almost every position (except defensive line). Singletary made the people around him better. I don't think you could say that about Lambert or Butkus and with Ray Lewis I think it was more the case that the people around him (namely Adams and Goose) made him better than he was.


                Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
                  Well I think he's the best of the new breed. At the front of the vanguard if you will.

                  One could make a case for Ray Lewis too, but I think his flame burnt out too fast.

                  As I stated before, I think people tend to overate the massive hits that Butkus and Lambert laid because they played in an era in which the defense had MUCH more leniancy from the league in terms of rules. If you could tackle a guy by choking him or taking a forearm to his face I promise you guys like Urlacher and Merriman would have flashier highlights films.

                  Also, Singletary was, as BBD pointed out, probably the smartest linebacker to ever play the position. He ran the 46 like a maestro, and I tend to value intelligence over power at almost every position (except defensive line). Singletary made the people around him better. I don't think you could say that about Lambert or Butkus and with Ray Lewis I think it was more the case that the people around him (namely Adams and Goose) made him better than he was.
                  To play devil's advocate, you can say that Hampton and Fridge did the same for Singletary.

                  I view Singletary as a better version of Lewis. Lewis is Singletary Lite if you will.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by njx9
                    i wouldn't have actually thought ray lewis belonged in the conversation for top MLB ever. as far as i've ever seen people play, singletary was the guy i loved (and i saw a fair amount of him, as my entire family was from detroit). realistically, i think this comes down to the same thing every other question comes down to here: which era are we talking about? would urlacher really have been as successful against guys like, for instance, earl campbell who run with more power than 99% of any running back playing right now? would lambert/butkus have even been able to catch up to an LT or cover someone like Steven Jackson or Bryant Westbrook out of the backfield? meh, it's a bit of a cop out (actually, bit is understating it), but i'm just not sold you can positively identify anyone as having really been a better MLB across all eras.
                    You can say that about any position in the game. Would Alan Page hack it at DT at 255 lbs etc.

                    I think when you talk about topics like this, you have to evaluate it based on dominance in each era. Who dominated their era more? Also factor in how much impact did the said player have on the evolution of the game. I think those 2 factors are the most important when discussing topics like this.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                      To play devil's advocate, you can say that Hampton and Fridge did the same for Singletary.

                      I view Singletary as a better version of Lewis. Lewis is Singletary Lite if you will.
                      Meh..the Fridge. I poop on the Fridge.


                      Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.

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                      • #26
                        Count Dracula In Cleats Is the Greatest of All-Time

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                        • #27
                          Great player, great mentality.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by njx9
                            absolutely. but again, i'm not sure you can quantitatively say that lambert was less dominant than any other guy you'd put in the top 5 or that he affected the game any less (those hits are illegal for a reason, just like the head slaps that deacon jones used). i just have a hard time buying that, once you get down to the top 3-5 guys at a spot, that there's any realistic way to order them other than personal preference.
                            Some positions are harder than others, sure. I think MLB is one of the hardest positions to rate.

                            I think Rice is unaminously the best WR ever, and LT the best rushbacker ever. But then positions like QB, DT, MIKE, etc can be rather difficult.

                            It depends on the talent at hand I guess. And often at times, it is based more on preference than actual fact. Makes for great conversation either way.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                              Some positions are harder than others, sure. I think MLB is one of the hardest positions to rate.

                              I think Rice is unaminously the best WR ever, and LT the best rushbacker ever. But then positions like QB, DT, MIKE, etc can be rather difficult.

                              It depends on the talent at hand I guess. And often at times, it is based more on preference than actual fact. Makes for great conversation either way.
                              There are very few GOATs that are commonly accepted. Even Jim Brown is losing that recognition from newer fans to the game, and it disgusts me. Maybe in 10 years people start forgetting about Rice too. The easiests GOATs at positions for me are:

                              RB - Jim Brown
                              WR - Jerry Rice
                              LT - Anthony Munoz
                              LB/DE - Lawrence Taylor
                              S - Ronnie Lott

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                              • #30
                                I don't think Brown is a clear cut GOAT. Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, and Jim Brown all have arguments for GOAT. Barry Sanders, to me, is without a doubt the best RUNNER of them all. Is that enough to give him the GOAT crown? I don't think so. Jim Brown was a better overall back than Sanders, but Sanders did so much with no offensive line and QBs the likes of Scott Mitchell. Not to mention Jim Brown was the size of the lineman he played against. I have Barry Sanders and Jim Brown as 1A and 1B.
                                I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
                                Hunter S. Thompson

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