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4-3 vs. 3-4

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Ravens1991
    hey guys can you please settle this between PMs, this is a good thread and I hope it doesnt get locked for 1 letter difference.
    but back to you point i can never see a 3-4 dline over 1000lbs

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    • #62
      If we're gonna talk about the best players in each position in a 3-4, we can only talk about guys who have played the technique before, because its impossible to predict accurately exactly who from the 4-3 would translate as effectively in the 3-4.

      So having that said.

      DE - Seymour
      NT - Jamal Williams
      DE - Luis Castillo

      SOLB - Adalius Thomas
      ILB - Donnie Edwards
      ILB - Tedy Bruschi
      WOLB - Shawn Merriman

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      • #63
        Interesting BBD for having Adalius Thomas over Joey Porter I read on other forums that people have Porter labeled as the best 3-4 OLB in the leauge.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by The Legend
          Originally posted by Ravens1991
          hey guys can you please settle this between PMs, this is a good thread and I hope it doesnt get locked for 1 letter difference.
          but back to you point i can never see a 3-4 dline over 1000lbs
          That would be extremely difficult to pull off. 3-4 DEs have to still have some quickness so they can move laterally and defend the outside run. Also your LE in a 3-4 needs to be more versatile because he's the primary edge rusher in a 4 man rush out of the 3-4. 350 Lbs would not cut it, they would lack the lateral movement to be successful.

          Until we find a freak of nature capable of moving laterally with quickness on a 350 lb frame, it will never happen.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Ravens1991
            Interesting BBD for having Adalius Thomas over Joey Porter I read on other forums that people have Porter labeled as the best 3-4 OLB in the leauge.
            Adalius Thomas has 8 sacks this season as a situational rushbacker in a 4-3 front. I could only imagine if they imployed a full time 3-4 as their base. Everyone would say "Shawne Merriman who?" because Adalius would dwarf his rather impressive season. Adalius Thomas is the best 3-4 OLB followed by Merriman.

            Adalius is the best coverage defender, arguably the best pass rusher, and one heck of a run stuffer. He has no weakness

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Ravens1991
              Interesting BBD for having Adalius Thomas over Joey Porter I read on other forums that people have Porter labeled as the best 3-4 OLB in the leauge.
              Not after the way Porter has played this year.

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              • #67
                Thank you I have said that on other message boards and people called me a homer and a idiot and so on.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Ravens1991
                  Interesting BBD for having Adalius Thomas over Joey Porter I read on other forums that people have Porter labeled as the best 3-4 OLB in the leauge.
                  He WAS the best, but the new crop of 3-4 OLB have matched if not surpassed Porter in pure talent and production right now: Shawn Merriman, Demarcus Ware and the underrated Kamerion Wimbley.

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                  • #69
                    How does everyone feel if Terrell Suggs played OLB in a 3-4 were he would be ranked up with some players.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Moses
                      Originally posted by The Unseen
                      Originally posted by Moses
                      Dream Defence:

                      LDE: Richard Seymour
                      NT: Jamal Williams
                      RDE: Julius Peppers

                      LOLB: DeMarcus Ware
                      LILB: Brian Urlacher
                      RILB: Keith Bulluck
                      ROLB: Shawne Merriman

                      LCB: Champ Bailey
                      RCB: Rashean Mathis
                      FS: Ed Reed
                      SS: Sean Taylor
                      What the crap is a defence? The de-transliteration of the stadium signs?
                      It's the way everybody except Americans spells "defense".
                      Too right. Offence has a 'c' in as well. Oh and don't forget the 'u' in colour.

                      Thanks to FoosballIsTheDevil for the sig

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                      • #71
                        4-3, I prefer two DT's and just one MLB to the NT and 2 MLB's. Also I like more athletic MLB's (Brian Urlacher, Ray Lewis), and they are generally found more in the 4-3 defence.

                        Thanks to FoosballIsTheDevil for the sig

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                        • #72
                          I also want to discuss this notion that the 3-4 is quicker than the 4-3. This is actually false.

                          We assume that because you have an extra linebacker, that your team defense is faster, but the truth is 3-4 defenses are slower than 4-3 defenses, and actually thicker when you add up the total body mass of the front 7.

                          The prototypical 3-4 has these respective weights.

                          DE - 290
                          NT - 340
                          OLB - 260
                          ILB - 250

                          Thats 1940 lbs of mass in the front 7.

                          The prototypical 4-3 bodyweights are

                          DE - 270
                          NT - 310
                          UT - 300
                          MLB - 240
                          SLB - 240
                          WILL - 235

                          Thats 1865 lbs of mass.

                          The 4-3 has smaller quicker linebackers who play the middle of the field faster than the 3-4.

                          Remember, while the 3-4 may have one extra LB, youre usually blitzing that LB, leaving 3 LBs in coverage who tend to be thicker than 4-3 Lbs, so you have less speed in coverage. Plus, your 3 downlinemen are essentially all DTs, so you get less overall speed out of the pass rush as well.

                          This is why the 3-4 is better against the run, but worst against the pass. You have a thicker front 7 against the run, and its spaced out so its difficult to bounce it outside as well. However, the overall weight of the front 7 reduces team speed, making coverage a little slower, and pass rush a little slower, thus equating to worse pass defense.

                          Don't believe me? Think about who has the best run defenses in the league. Dallas, Pittsburgh, and SD. All 3-4 teams. Who has the best pass defenses? Generally Cover 2 teams, built on speed and 4-3 fronts, like the Bears.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Ravens1991
                            How does everyone feel if Terrell Suggs played OLB in a 3-4 were he would be ranked up with some players.
                            Well, he has played in it before, and at a very high level. I personally felt that Baltimore is more suited for the 3-4 with Thomas and Suggs, but theyre just accomodating Ray until he retires with their 4-3 right now.

                            Suggs would be a great pass rusher and run stuffer, but at his current frame he's a little too thick for great pass coverage. He'd be good, but not top level.

                            I think when you talk about pass coverage, the best 3-4 OLBs are

                            Adalius, Joey Porter, Demarcus Ware, and Mike Vrabel (McGinnest gets honorary mention for years of great coverage)

                            In terms of pass rushing you have
                            Adalius, Merriman, Suggs, Ware

                            In terms of run stuffing
                            Adalius, Merriman, Ware, Suggs, Porter are all in the same level

                            I think having that said, its very difficult to make a list of 3-4 olbs, but its easier to discuss who would be the best out of these guys.

                            I think its between Adalius and Merriman.

                            But a better question is what if we introduced DEs into the mix? Jason Taylor, Osi Umenyiora, maybe Alex Brown...they would all thrive as rushbackers in a 3-4 too, so its very difficult to say whos best.

                            Out of the guys who have played 3-4, Id say the best is Adalius followed by Merriman.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Moses
                              Originally posted by cardsalltheway
                              Originally posted by Moses
                              Originally posted by The Unseen
                              Originally posted by Moses
                              Dream Defence:

                              LDE: Richard Seymour
                              NT: Jamal Williams
                              RDE: Julius Peppers

                              LOLB: DeMarcus Ware
                              LILB: Brian Urlacher
                              RILB: Keith Bulluck
                              ROLB: Shawne Merriman

                              LCB: Champ Bailey
                              RCB: Rashean Mathis
                              FS: Ed Reed
                              SS: Sean Taylor
                              What the crap is a defence? The de-transliteration of the stadium signs?
                              It's the way everybody except Americans spells "defense".
                              Guess what country the NFL is played in?
                              This is why Americans have been labelled as "ignorant".
                              I was kidding around.

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                              • #75
                                My defense.

                                OE- Jason Taylor
                                DT- Richard Seymour
                                NT- Jamal Williams
                                DE- Julius Peppers

                                WLB- Keith Bulluck
                                MLB- Brian Urlacher
                                SLB- Adalius Thomas/Marcus Washington

                                That is correct comahan
                                I ******* LOVE YOU DG
                                <3 dg

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