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  • Originally posted by PalmerToCJ View Post
    I would honestly rather cut ties with Bobbie Williams than get rid of Andrews. A lineman as young as he is and as good as he is are hard to come by.

    Our organization places a lot of importance on the Oline (tackle capable Olineman especially), I guess we'll see...
    You guys do and it's a great thing for a franchise to put ehmpasis on; i'm a firm beleive that you build a franchise from the trenches out. I really don't see you guys letting andrews get away, he is far too valuable. I actually wanted the jets to sign prior to this season and give up the 2nd rounder when they brought him in for a metting, but than we wouldn't have gotten harris so it's alright.

    "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

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    • if we let andrews go it would be a very bad move. i want him back more than anyone.

      ^A Bonekrusher production^
      #15
      Gamertag= ELDUDERINO1165

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      • I'm doing a forum mock on another site and wanted to know if a 3rd and 4th pick would be enough for Madieu Williams? thanks

        EDIT: Also when is his contract up with you guys this year or next?
        Last edited by regoob2; 01-07-2008, 08:24 PM.

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        • I think they would let him go for a 3rd rd choice. He was a 2nd rders himself but to tell you the truth, the Bengals have shied away from paying Safeties much. They let Sam Shade walk to the Redskins a few years a go and we have Marvin White and Chine ready to take over. I'm not sure if he is RFA or UFA

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          • I think the Bengals have been pretty bad drafting. I actually think any moron can read a few draft booklets and perform as well as we have . Look at the slections of Ratliff in rd 2, Askew in rd 4, Odell (character), Henry (character), Perry over Jackson( I know we ended up lucking out with Andrews, but it was the whole idea of thinking Perry was as good a pick as Jackson which was absurd.

            Teams should rarely if ever screw up a 1st and 2nd rd pick since any mock can provide adequate info yet we've done it a couple times under Marvin. I know we have gotten some good players too, but when you think about it, rarely have they done any better than any of us could have done. I liked Toeaina pick alot......but they didn't have sense enough to keep him.

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            • The Toeinea pick? Who cares you have no clue if hes good or bad so whatever if you want to think that then fine. Why do you like him so much? You saw him puck up a fumble and run it back(very slowly). He is a a DE/DT tweener and we have enough of those as is.

              We have drafted well, we just got bit in the ass on some of them, such as, Odell and Henry only. Odell showed skill wise he was a steal and I hope he shows us again this year but well see. Henry has also showed us he was a major steal skill wise and even with those games suspended he was worth it. Odell and Henry both were made scape goats by Goodell and under normal circumstances would not have had such large suspensions.

              Also, on saying that teams should rarely screw up first and second round picks. the first round a lone is a 50/50 avg of making a difference on teams. So by that I would say lots of teams screw them up.

              On the M. Williams thing, we can't get anything for him b/c hes a free agent which means hes no longer under contract with us. So teams will have a shot at get him, just have to show him the money.

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              • Toeaina is 6-4 311; hardly an DE/DT tweener.....he made 6 tackles since he left us which is about 1/3 of what Robinson made the entire year. The point is, you do not allow a draft pick (in a position of need) to leave after he was good enough to keep the entire season, for the sake of keeping 33 -34 yr old has-been that will under no circumstances be here next season. It is a matter of another poor personnel move whether Toeaina pans out or not is not the question.

                Tell me, how many tackles did Odell make this season anyway? How many games did ole reliable Chris Henry win for us? These were stupid picks that a team like the Pats can gamble on, but not a struggling team that MUST make intelligent picks. WE tried to take shortcuts to becoming a quality team and look what happened. Many many teams had the sense to stay away from these 2.

                First round picks may be a 50/50 proposition, but I bet if you check 1st rd picks picked in the top 15 which is usually the case with us, the percentage is more like 85-90%

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                • looks like rickscott should be the head of the bengals scouting department. as for our drafting over the past years i think its been pretty good. not great, but not horrible as you say. i think you'd be hard pressed to find a team that has as many 4th-7th rounders that they originally drafted that have become starters/contributors as we have.

                  ^A Bonekrusher production^
                  #15
                  Gamertag= ELDUDERINO1165

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                  • Yeah Rick... It hasn't been amazing by any means but adequate I'd say. Pollack getting hurt can't be blamed on them, Henry being an idiot can but even then he didn't have as much off field issues as issues with the coaches which has pretty much been controlled here. Odell was a risk, a very good one IMO given his first year. The Nicholson pick sucked, Keiwan never turned out obviously... Otherwise guys like Steinbach/Whitworth/Andrews/JJ/Hall/Ndukwe/Madieu etc. haven't been bad picks. Even Weathersby was a good risk IMO.

                    I really don't have much of a problem with our drafting, more with FA signing and play calling.

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                    • OK, so I am now head of our scouting dept so let's get busy. Maybe I am overdoing it somewhat. Alot of good picks, but alot of bad ones too. I think I heard where Indy has ZERO starters that ever played with another team so that is pretty darn good. I do think they have to start drafting good character "leader" type guys to right the ship rather than picking up a 28 yr old Canada import that beats his wife. Whether he makes it or not, it says something about our priorities.

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                      • I did a little research for fun and found the following. You be the judge. In 5 drafts under Marvin, we have had an average 1st rd pick in the 17th position. We have had 1 Pro Bowl player out of all of those drafts, and that was Carson Palmer; a no brainer pick.

                        Starters still with club

                        2003 - Carson Palmer
                        Jeremi Johnson
                        2004 - Robert Geathers
                        Stacy Andrews
                        Madeiu Williams
                        2005 - Eric Ghiaciuc
                        2006 - Jonathan Joseph
                        Andrew Whitworth
                        Domata Peko
                        Landan Johnson
                        2007 - Leon Hall
                        Marvin White
                        Chine Ndukwe

                        41 players drafted during that period and 13 are starters, another 15 are with the club in some capacity...mostly injured. I don't really know how this compares to other clubs but I guess it's likely that better teams keep fewer of their draft picks

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                        • Landon was before 2006 fyi.
                          and wasn't Toenia's tackles in preseason? I don't think those count. My only guess is that there was a reason he was on the practice squad.

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                          • Originally posted by rickscott View Post
                            I did a little research for fun and found the following. You be the judge. In 5 drafts under Marvin, we have had an average 1st rd pick in the 17th position. We have had 1 Pro Bowl player out of all of those drafts, and that was Carson Palmer; a no brainer pick.

                            Starters still with club

                            2003 - Carson Palmer
                            Jeremi Johnson
                            2004 - Robert Geathers
                            Stacy Andrews
                            Madeiu Williams
                            2005 - Eric Ghiaciuc
                            2006 - Jonathan Joseph
                            Andrew Whitworth
                            Domata Peko
                            Landan Johnson
                            2007 - Leon Hall
                            Marvin White
                            Chine Ndukwe

                            41 players drafted during that period and 13 are starters, another 15 are with the club in some capacity...mostly injured. I don't really know how this compares to other clubs but I guess it's likely that better teams keep fewer of their draft picks
                            the ironic thing about this is that perhaps our best draft in recent memory came the year BEFORE marvin became our head coach. i think when you take everything into account considering our obviously understaffed/funded we've done pretty darn good. i'd def like to see more but our drafting really isn't our biggest problem by a long shot. maybe im a bit too homerish when i say i think this season was mostly just bad luck but thats what i think. we've got some problems but they are correctable problems that do not require a complete overhaul of our coaching staff. we're stuck with a ****** owner as well and that does not help us at all. maybe when we win/get to a superbowl ole mikey boy will start believing as his father once said.

                            ^A Bonekrusher production^
                            #15
                            Gamertag= ELDUDERINO1165

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                            • I am hopeful that IF we get the return of Thurman, he and Brooks can form a very very strong portion of our LBing corp and we can turn this thing around in a hurry with just the addition of a solid DE and DT thru the draft and free agency. Fill those 2 positions on the D-line and concentrate on depth the rest of the draft

                              Landan was in 2004; sorry

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                              • A 3-4 would be VERY entertaining with Brooks/Odell in the middle... Good lord.

                                Now is the BEST time to swap we could possibly do. New DC, Odell hasn't played in 2 years, Ahmad has barely played and Geathers could move outside. Let Smith walk, put Peko at end... Draft/Sign a NT and put Frostee/Fanene at DE. Geathers/Odell/Ahmad/Jeanty could be a very solid LB core, draft a backup in the 2nd/3rd round.

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