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  • Originally posted by Go Cowboys View Post
    Ok, of the people you named....We drafted AOA, Arkin, Lissemore....Sure if you count Supplemental then Brent... But... How many of those guys did we draft in the thoughts that they need to start? Or in a high enough draft position to think that they will start? Hey, don't get me wrong I would love to be like the Patriots and pull gem after gem in the late rounds that can begin playing and contributing in year one.... But we haven't been doing that.
    I was just using those picks as an example, there's plenty of others on the roster. We have some young players on the team that barely get any playing time....at least under Wade. Right or wrong, if we're not a SB team(roster as is...we're not)...Then I think these guys need to start to get burn, you have to start churning the roster over, because this core of players is on its last leg.

    I'm not even going to go quote for quote with you. I agree fully with what most have said...Stop with the "Kool aid" talk...that's ridiculous. It's just seems like everyone is upset that we didn't sign a bunch of high priced FA's, the fact of the matter is the FO tried to upgrade many key spots, by going after ASO/Cullen/Bowen/etc..We didn't land them, for whatever reason. It's just funny to see people point out the lack of cap space, yet get upset because we didn't sign any expensive FA's. At this point it's time to face facts, they'll be competitive throughout the season barring major injuries, and hopefully they can get a few bounces to go their way and get a wildcard.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by FreshBoy! View Post
      I was just using those picks as an example, there's plenty of others on the roster. We have some young players on the team that barely get any playing time....at least under Wade. Right or wrong, if we're not a SB team(roster as is...we're not)...Then I think these guys need to start to get burn, you have to start churning the roster over, because this core of players is on its last leg.

      I'm not even going to go quote for quote with you. I agree fully with what most have said...Stop with the "Kool aid" talk...that's ridiculous. It's just seems like everyone is upset that we didn't sign a bunch of high priced FA's, the fact of the matter is the FO tried to upgrade many key spots, by going after ASO/Cullen/Bowen/etc..We didn't land them, for whatever reason. It's just funny to see people point out the lack of cap space, yet get upset because we didn't sign any expensive FA's. At this point it's time to face facts, they'll be competitive throughout the season barring major injuries, and hopefully they can get a few bounces to go their way and get a wildcard.
      You must misunderstand my being upset. I don't really care that we didn't land Aso/Cullen/Bowen etc.... I'm upset we haven't addressed our needs at all in the Draft or in Free Agency out side of getting a new Right Tackle whom everyone seems to think is going to be a the perfect guy to fill for years to come, but we need to realize that isn't going to be perfect for a year or two most likely.

      You talk about turning the roster over and such. If we are doing that then we need to actually do that, which means Romo has to be on the way out. I have never been a huge fan of his but as good as the guy is he isn't going to play forever. He isn't at the age where you can "rebuild" around him. He's at the age where QB's begin to peak. If we are going to win with Romo at the helm we need to do it soon or we are going to have to rebuild completely.

      From what I'm reading and hearing including here I would imagine Spencer is gone soon as a bust. But then again who knows.

      Thanks to bonekrusher for the sig

      Comment


      • Our cutting of Elam is irrelavant, by the way. No one is making him how out to be a savior, so I dont know where that came from, either. But anyway, we cut him in his sophomore pro season. Since then, he's gone on to start 48 games. And he's played well. Elam is a fine safety, who knows the defense. He is someone who could certainly help this team.

        I'm not expecting a pro bowl performance, but he would be a solid addition.

        Thanks BoneKrusher^

        http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
        http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
        KO KNOWS

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        • Here is a look at Drafts since BP left and Jerry took over with Wade/Garrett

          2007 (Wade's First year, Jerry's first removed from BP)
          1. Anthony Spencer, OLB, Purdue (Hasn't been what was expected, odds are he will lose his starting job or playing time in a year or two)
          3. James Martean, OT, Boston College (Well.... He got cut....)
          4. Isaiah Stanback, WR, Washington (Another wasted pick... Never saw much time, cut last year.)
          4. Doug Free, OT, Northern Illinois (Might be the steal of the draft or at least is for us. Hats off to whoever lobbied for him to get drafted)
          6. Nick Folk, K, Arizona (Great first year, not so much after... Not with team)
          6. Deon Anderson, FB, UConn (Been hurt a few times, Otherwise was a solid pick before injuries)
          7. Courtney Brown, S, Cal-Poly (Was a project, didn't work out... Not with team)
          7. Alan Ball, S, Illinois (We drafted him as a project, he started last year and struggled badly.)
          So from the 2007 Draft We Ended up with Truly 4 eventual starters...Ball hasn't worked out so far, Anderson is hurt, Spencer underperforms.. So as of this year it will be 2 maybe 1 starter out of the goup... Not a bad draft until Ball failed.

          2008
          1. Flex Jones, RB, Arkansas (More Flash than productivity but is officially our starter now.)
          1. Mike Jenkins, CB, South Florida (Has had great moments and not so great moment, is a starter now also.)
          2. Martellus Bennett, TE, Texas A&M (Well, doesn't start but who expected him to with Witten, is athletic but has many struggles)
          4. Tashard Choice, RB, Georgia Tech (We all want him to get more carries, he wants more carries, might be our "power" back this year with Barber being gone.)
          5. Orlando Scandrick, CB, Boise State (Has had flashes of brilliance but also had moments where no one has any idea what he is thinking)
          6. Erik Walden, DE, Middle Tennessee St (Cut)

          Overall, not a horrible draft, 2 guys with star potential, 2-3 solid role players. Pretty good draft and an upgrade from a year before.

          2009
          1. (Traded for Roy Williams) BUST
          3. Jason Williams, ILB, Western Illinois (Cut, wasted pick)
          3. Robert Brewster, OT, Ball State (Cut, wasted pick)
          4. Stephen McGee, QB, Texas A&M (Well, haven't seen him do much for a 4th round pick.)
          4. Victor Butler, OLB, Oregon State (Showing great progress now might beat out Spencer)
          4. Branden Williams, OLB, Texas Tech (Recovered well from Injury and is progressing well.)
          5. Deangelo Smith, CB/FS, Cincinnati (Cut, Wasted Pick)
          5. Michael Hamlin, FS, Clemson (Cut after injuries, Wasted Pick)
          5. David Buehler, K, USC (Inconsistent at both Kickoffs and Field Goals)
          6. Stephen Hodge, S, TCU (Gut hurt, never worked out)
          6. John Phillips, TE, Virginia (Proven a more reliable receiver than even Martellus Bennett lately)
          7. Mike Mickens, CB, Cincinnati (Cut)
          7. Manuel Johnson, WR, Oklahoma (Not a horrible pick, has bounced around the practice squad and the roster but was beat out by Jesse Holley eventually)

          Overall a horrible draft even if you count Roy Williams, the only picks worthwhile are Butler and Branden Williams and maybe Buehler if he fixes things up.

          2010 I'm going to say is too soon to say on any of them as it's only been one year.

          Overall an average draft, a good draft and a waste of a draft in the first 3 years of Wade Being here and Jerry having full control.

          Thanks to bonekrusher for the sig

          Comment


          • Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
            Our cutting of Elam is irrelavant, by the way. No one is making him how out to be a savior, so I dont know where that came from, either. But anyway, we cut him in his sophomore pro season. Since then, he's gone on to start 48 games. And he's played well. Elam is a fine safety, who knows the defense. He is someone who could certainly help this team.

            I'm not expecting a pro bowl performance, but he would be a solid addition.
            I have a problem that he was starting the majority of those 48 games with the Cleveland Browns who haven't been winning a whole lot of football games. Before that he was with the Jets when they weren't winning a whole lot of football games. I'm not saying there is a correlation between him and teams losing, I'm saying that I want guys who know how to win on the roster.

            Thanks to bonekrusher for the sig

            Comment


            • I honestly wouldnt worry about his crappy team record history, more so than his indivisual play, and he played good football at both destinations. ASO was dealt a **** hand here too. Not like he won much in Oakland. But yeah, Elam's a solid safety these days.

              Granted, we're thin at the position...but if we signed him, he's easily the best safety on the roster. I know it's not the "splash" everyone wanted...but he's safe and solid. Look at the alternative of potentially starting Church/AOA this year. Elam isnt a bad player and Ryan wants the guy too. We could do much worse.

              Thanks BoneKrusher^

              http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
              http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
              KO KNOWS

              Comment


              • Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
                I honestly wouldnt worry about his crappy team record history, more so than his indivisual play, and he played good football at both destinations. ASO was dealt a **** hand here too. Not like he won much in Oakland. But yeah, Elam's a solid safety these days.

                Granted, we're thin at the position...but if we signed him, he's easily the best safety on the roster. I know it's not the "splash" everyone wanted...but he's safe and solid. Look at the alternative of potentially starting Church/AOA this year. Elam isnt a bad player and Ryan wants the guy too. We could do much worse.
                Ya, the difference with Aso was he gets thrown at about 2-4 times a game because he is such a shutdown.

                I don't disagree that he beats whatever options we have at safety now and I would imagine that he would be starter day 1. I'm sure he can always surprise me as I liked him as a solid role guy before he was cut. He might be a stopgap for a year which is fine by me, I'm just looking for us to address a need we have had for mulitple years at some point.

                Edit: I guess what it is is this. I'm tired of all the stopgap players at safety, let's get someone to be our franchise safety. Hamlin and Roy changed to Ball and Sensabaugh now is going to be Unknown and maybe Elam or another unknown.

                Thanks to bonekrusher for the sig

                Comment


                • I want to, too man. Ideally through the draft. In a perfect world, we sign Elam...and either Church or AOA proves their worth at the other spot. Realistically, it could be either guy starting opposite him, because Elam can play both S positions. And then we could tackle the other safety spot early, via the draft.

                  I'm one of the guys who have been yelling for a safety in the early rounds for years now. Sadly, we may be looking at more than a few needs in this upcoming draft...so we may skip out on S...again.

                  G may be in play, DE, maybe OLB, CB, and S.

                  I like Bruce Carter, but I still wish we took Rahim Moore, who is gearing up to start at FS for Denver this year.
                  Last edited by M.O.T.H.; 08-02-2011, 01:49 PM.

                  Thanks BoneKrusher^

                  http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
                  http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
                  KO KNOWS

                  Comment


                  • I love seeing Rob Ryan talking ****. It really puts the pressure on guys to have to live up to that. That's one of the reasons why the Jets are so good. Rex is a very good defensive mind, but he really forces those guys to show up and show out. Now guys will probably start looking to make plays instead of hoping that they don't give up plays. When they play against the Eagles the team is probably going to be so fired up that it's going to throw their rivals back a bit. Hopefully Garrett encourages it. He knows what it's like to be on a team full of confident winners, so I'm expecting him and Rob to be a good combo unless Rob beats up somebody or something crazy.
                    "If you have one finger pointing at somebody, you have three pointing towards yourself."
                    ~Nigerian Proverb

                    Da riddum is too much for you.
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nKx27QrgO0

                    Comment


                    • Bottomline... there is just cause for frustration in Cowboys Nation.

                      No reason to call it a season by any means, but this team is going to rely on their young guys stepping up more than ever. Which is a scary proposition.

                      Comment


                      • That really depends, though...because honestly, the front 9 (lol) are exactly the same veteran starters we've had for the last two years.

                        Offense we'll need some young guys to step up...I'm not worried about Felix or Dez at all, though.

                        Thanks BoneKrusher^

                        http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
                        http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
                        KO KNOWS

                        Comment


                        • Yeah offense is in a really good spot. Felix is good anyway, he'll just now be the starter the whole season. Choice has always been good at stepping up, so I don't worry about him. Murray is going to be a good steal. The running backs are the reason why I don't worry about the young guys on the offensive line. There will definitely be a learning curve, but they've got some good help behind them.

                          Defense is the real problem. Is AOA ready? Can Jenkins return to form? Most of it is really secondary problems because the front seven isn't bad at all. I really wanted Jenkins and Bowen next to Ratliff, but even with that it's not like there are a bunch of scrubs there keeping Ware and Ratliff from being great. Then there's Sean Lee whose time to shine is coming up. They're not the problem. It's the secondary, and I really don't want to go through another headache season like last year.
                          "If you have one finger pointing at somebody, you have three pointing towards yourself."
                          ~Nigerian Proverb

                          Da riddum is too much for you.
                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nKx27QrgO0

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
                            That really depends, though...because honestly, the front 9 (lol) are exactly the same veteran starters we've had for the last two years.

                            Offense we'll need some young guys to step up...I'm not worried about Felix or Dez at all, though.
                            Yeah, definitely talking about the offense. Especially the right side of the line. I don't think Holland makes the team. ...and if he does, I expect him to be just as bad if not worse than Davis was last year. So if we rely on Arkin and Smith... As Jerry mentioned was the reason for not pursuing OL "to give our young guys an opportunity".... then well, there goes our brilliant plan to rely on our offense to carry us through the season.

                            I don't know why Jerry swayed away from his past history trend of relying on vets to fill immediate OL needs and using the draft to get developmental guys.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by E-Man View Post
                              Yeah offense is in a really good spot. Felix is good anyway, he'll just now be the starter the whole season. Choice has always been good at stepping up, so I don't worry about him. Murray is going to be a good steal. The running backs are the reason why I don't worry about the young guys on the offensive line. There will definitely be a learning curve, but they've got some good help behind them.

                              Defense is the real problem. Is AOA ready? Can Jenkins return to form? Most of it is really secondary problems because the front seven isn't bad at all. I really wanted Jenkins and Bowen next to Ratliff, but even with that it's not like there are a bunch of scrubs there keeping Ware and Ratliff from being great. Then there's Sean Lee whose time to shine is coming up. They're not the problem. It's the secondary, and I really don't want to go through another headache season like last year.
                              The problem on defense is once again going to start with Ratliff at NT. Then the DEs. I know this. We talk about the same thing at the end of every season. We did NOTHING there, so I expect NOTHING to change.

                              Then if anyone starts to talk about fixing the secondary, we'll have guys say, it was the DL's fault. Fact is, they'll both share the blame equally sucking.

                              Comment


                              • We re-signed Sensabaugh. With anyone other than Alan Ball next to him, he is going to be a great player for us.
                                http://twitter.com/#!/Gsensabaugh

                                Headed back to the Big D.

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