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Mayock says AVOID STAFFORD!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by JRTPlaya21 View Post
    Stafford didn't throw at the combine.
    Oh ok. Did he do anything?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Hyperion Ecta View Post
      Just a general inquiry. I'm a relatively new fan to the NFL so my knowledge of it's history is limited.

      My question is, has a QB ever been drafted into a team that was floundering and managed to turn it around within the three or so seasons it takes for them to be considered a bust or for them to move on?

      And when I say floundering I mean bottom three teams in the league at the time. So that means, the QB has no strong O-line or Running Back or Defence to fall back on.

      Personally, I don't see Stafford becoming a great QB here, he might at a team which has some personnel for him to work, but here has little. CJ is really the only weapon he has, and while it's a great weapon, it's not gonna stop him from getting rushed constantly.

      We need to fix our defence, which happens to be among the worst the league has ever seen. Curry would be a good choice, even though there seems to be this utterly stupid notion of not giving the safest and most likely best player in the draft his worth because he plays a certain position.

      Monroe or J. Smith is also completely viable.

      Also, for those people who say we can draft a stronger O-line with the picks we have later on in the draft should note that our defence needs help, if we spend 1 or 2 picks that high up on O-lineman, what's gonna be left for our shocking defence. Little, if any top talent, which is what we need.

      Their will be other QB's in the future, whether it comes from the draft or from the Free Agency, we won't know. But to say not drafting Stafford is gonna be a big mistake is really pretty silly because there's just as much chance, if not a bigger chance, that drafting him will be just as big of a mistake.
      Curry alone will not fix this defense, just like Stafford alone will not fix the offense(although we will be much closer if Stafford works out than if Curry works out in getting something fixed because of CJ and Kevin Smith and Gosder and even Bryant Johnson). Plus Stafford has more control with his release to help the Oline than Curry has. Curry has to react to the Dline and the opposing teams offense can avoid him through game planning. If Stafford is good, the other teams can't avoid him and QB is far more important of a position.

      And why is Curry such a safe pick. LBs never get taken number 1. That doesn't sound very safe to me doing something that is never done in the NFL. Curry may be switched to Mike to make more of an impact because SAMs are probably the least important position in football other than kicker. So we take a guy number 1 and then switch his position. Not very safe sounding to me.

      Everyone says Stafford will struggle without an Oline. What about Curry without a Dline. Ask Ray Lewis how he did in between Siragusa and Ngata. If any LB has blockers on them constantly, they usually struggle. Curry needs the defense built around him just like Stafford needs some of the Oline built around him. With any pick at number 1, we will have to build around them.

      Finally, logic. 3 of the QBs next year are spread QBs. Pro style offense is greater than a spread QB. 2nd year pro is greater than rookie and IMO Stafford>McCoy,Bradford,Tebow. Who would be the 1st QB if all of them came out this year. Stafford IMO. Stafford going back to Georgia for a senior year isn't beneficial to the Lions. I'd rather him sit in the 09 and get NFL coaching and adjust to the league than have McCoy/Bradford learn some more spread garbage from Texas and OU coaches and then play some terrible defenses every week in the Big 12. And Tebow is a flat out winner but has to learn how to be a QB in the NFL because his mechanics are the worst out of all the QBs. He has 1 year under Loeffler to do it.

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      • #18
        2 elite WR's? He played with Green one year and when was Massaquoi ever elite? Stafford also played without a quality TE his whole career. If the Lions pass on Stafford they will regret it for a long time. Mayock is wrong on this one. Perhaps Lions fans have grown accustomed to having no franchise QB and being irrelevant for 50 years, so I guess it's no biggie to them, but Stafford will be a top NFL QB in a few years.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Hyperion Ecta View Post
          My question is, has a QB ever been drafted into a team that was floundering and managed to turn it around within the three or so seasons it takes for them to be considered a bust or for them to move on?
          Colts took Peyton Manning #1 overall and two seasons later they went to the playoffs. Bengals took Carson Palmer #1 overall and two seasons later they made the playoffs. Atlanta reached the playoffs shortly after drafting both Mike Vick and Matt Ryan. The Chargers and Giants both made the playoffs after taking Philip Rivers and Eli Manning respectively.

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          • #20
            And even the Steelers were 6-10 the year before Ben. I think every team that takes a QB very high in the draft is usually awful or stink because QB is so important and they don't have one. Sometimes they are just the missing pieice because they are so important and a good team is crap or just decent until they get a good QB and sometimes they have to carry a franchise on their back. We will have to hit on other picks for Stafford to win games but Stafford is a good start.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2 View Post
              Curry alone will not fix this defense, just like Stafford alone will not fix the offense(although we will be much closer if Stafford works out than if Curry works out in getting something fixed because of CJ and Kevin Smith and Gosder and even Bryant Johnson). Plus Stafford has more control with his release to help the Oline than Curry has. Curry has to react to the Dline and the opposing teams offense can avoid him through game planning. If Stafford is good, the other teams can't avoid him and QB is far more important of a position.

              And why is Curry such a safe pick. LBs never get taken number 1. That doesn't sound very safe to me doing something that is never done in the NFL. Curry may be switched to Mike to make more of an impact because SAMs are probably the least important position in football other than kicker. So we take a guy number 1 and then switch his position. Not very safe sounding to me.

              Everyone says Stafford will struggle without an Oline. What about Curry without a Dline. Ask Ray Lewis how he did in between Siragusa and Ngata. If any LB has blockers on them constantly, they usually struggle. Curry needs the defense built around him just like Stafford needs some of the Oline built around him. With any pick at number 1, we will have to build around them.

              Finally, logic. 3 of the QBs next year are spread QBs. Pro style offense is greater than a spread QB. 2nd year pro is greater than rookie and IMO Stafford>McCoy,Bradford,Tebow. Who would be the 1st QB if all of them came out this year. Stafford IMO. Stafford going back to Georgia for a senior year isn't beneficial to the Lions. I'd rather him sit in the 09 and get NFL coaching and adjust to the league than have McCoy/Bradford learn some more spread garbage from Texas and OU coaches and then play some terrible defenses every week in the Big 12. And Tebow is a flat out winner but has to learn how to be a QB in the NFL because his mechanics are the worst out of all the QBs. He has 1 year under Loeffler to do it.
              I said that Curry is the safest pick because the consensus is that he is the best overall prospect. I also said that the Lions should not take him at #1 because he dosen't fill a pressng need....Stafford does. I'm not sure why you're trying to debate an issue which I conceded in my original post.

              Next year's QBs are of no concern to me at the moment. I was attempting to logically illustrate a contradiction in Mayocks posted comments concerning Stafford relative to how he has him rated going into the draft.

              Here's a simple way to put what I tried to explain: Of Mayock's top 6 prospects, only 3 could logically be chosen...either one of the 2 LT's or Stafford. Given that ratio assuming each player carries a relatively similar value, it makes no sense for Mayock to suggest that Detroit avoids him...ergo the contradiction.
              [

              Crazyass sig by BoneKrusher

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              • #22
                Originally posted by noondog View Post
                I said that Curry is the safest pick because the consensus is that he is the best overall prospect. I also said that the Lions should not take him at #1 because he dosen't fill a pressng need....Stafford does. I'm not sure why you're trying to debate an issue which I conceded in my original post.

                Next year's QBs are of no concern to me at the moment. I was attempting to logically illustrate a contradiction in Mayocks posted comments concerning Stafford relative to how he has him rated going into the draft.

                Here's a simple way to put what I tried to explain: Of Mayock's top 6 prospects, only 3 could logically be chosen...either one of the 2 LT's or Stafford. Given that ratio assuming each player carries a relatively similar value, it makes no sense for Mayock to suggest that Detroit avoids him...ergo the contradiction.
                I agree with you. I was debating with the poster above you, which is why I quoted him and not you. I agree with your post 100% on your lgoic. But Curry is really no safer in Detroit than Stafford. Curry needs a Dline and Stafford needs an Oline. Either way we need to build around them. And both "safeness" assumptions are based on potential by the media draft experts, which really means nothing. We really don't know what the actual NFL scouts think until after the draft.
                Last edited by Maybe Next Year Millen2; 03-10-2009, 12:23 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Halsey View Post
                  2 elite WR's? He played with Green one year and when was Massaquoi ever elite? Stafford also played without a quality TE his whole career. If the Lions pass on Stafford they will regret it for a long time. Mayock is wrong on this one. Perhaps Lions fans have grown accustomed to having no franchise QB and being irrelevant for 50 years, so I guess it's no biggie to them, but Stafford will be a top NFL QB in a few years.
                  Massaquoi is an elite college WR. He and Green both have great ability to nullify the many mistakes Stafford made with their superior athleticism. Maybe he's not that great of an option in the NFL, but in college, he's an elite talent for sure.
                  ________
                  PLAYBOYSQUIRT LIVE
                  Last edited by nepg; 09-17-2011, 08:05 AM.

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                  • #24
                    You know whats funny, the same situation we speak of him having at Georgia, well he is walking into almost the same thing if the Lions draft him.

                    Great WR and good rb, where Georgia had a good wr and good rb. Both teams have terrible O-lines at least thats what people keep telling me about Georgia. Ohh and he played in the SEC which is apparently like the closest thing to the NFL.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bhaarat316 View Post
                      You know whats funny, the same situation we speak of him having at Georgia, well he is walking into almost the same thing if the Lions draft him.

                      Great WR and good rb, where Georgia had a good wr and good rb. Both teams have terrible O-lines at least thats what people keep telling me about Georgia. Ohh and he played in the SEC which is apparently like the closest thing to the NFL.
                      If he can get 30 wins like he did in college in 3 years and get better every year I'll be happy. Reality that won't happen but improvement in 2010 and 2011 is what I want to see.

                      But most likely he'll sit in 09 and then by 2010 it's time to see what he has. You'd be amazed how a quick release good decision making QB(which is essentially a franchise QB) can have an effect on an Oline. It won Georgia some ball games. And its not like this Oline will be the exact same in 2 or 3 years. At least it better not be or we have bigger problems with Mayhew.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by nepg View Post
                        Massaquoi is an elite college WR.
                        Yeah..no. Watched every game he played in. He's not elite. Good, yes. Elite, heck no. Inconsistent hands, heck yes.

                        And no NFL team drafts a QB with the plan to not give him weapons to throw to. There's no GM or coach saying "lets find a QB and surround him with no talent." :D

                        Even the best QB's can't win without talent around them, so if the Lions can't find other talented players to put around their QB, they might as well stand by for another 50 years of fail no matter who they draft.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2 View Post
                          I agree with you. I was debating with the poster above you, which is why I quoted him and not you. I agree with your post 100% on your lgoic. But Curry is really no safer in Detroit than Stafford. Curry needs a Dline and Stafford needs an Oline. Either way we need to build around them. And both "safeness" assumptions are based on potential by the media draft experts, which really means nothing. We really don't know what the actual NFL scouts think until after the draft.
                          Fair enough....my bad.
                          [

                          Crazyass sig by BoneKrusher

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                          • #28
                            I don't have the time to time a long reply so I'll keep it short. Mayock suffers from the same thing many people on here do only looking at the skill players his junior year. Please tell me where the elite WR's was staffords first 2 years starting. The OL he had was average at best and below average the last 2 years. Moreno is a fantastic HB, but overall UGA wasn't even in the top 50 rushing teams in the country. Massaquoi isn't elite and it's not even debatable. He was average his first 3 years until A.J Green and steped up to take all the pressure off him. I don't know where Mayock has Massaquoi ranked, but he better have him as a top 5 WR if he thinks he is elite. If not then he is just making stuff up. As someone else mentioned A.J Green will be the best WR in school history. But he ran wrong routes alot and that lead to several interceptions. Plus if he had any other QB in the country throwing to him he doesn't lead the SEC in receiving.

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                            • #29



                              FTW!!!
                              Stafford Sig by touchdownrams the rest of the sig by Sig Master Bone Krusher Avy by King of all avys renji


                              DEATH NOTE MAFIA SIGNUP!

                              Originally posted by njx9
                              oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Lions WMD View Post
                                Mayock said that if the Lions make a mistake at quarterback with that pick, "they won't recover for five years.''
                                They won't recover? From what? Losing?

                                When you go O-16 there's only one way to go from there.

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