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  • I actually wouldn't mind Ginn in the first. The ways to use him!

    If the Giants can figure out how to set up a wedge for kickoffs, imagine two speedsters like Ginn and Moss back there? Who to kick it to?!

    Ginn on punts is obvious.

    Ginn and Moss on reverses? Jeez.

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    • Originally posted by Go_Eli View Post
      I actually wouldn't mind Ginn in the first. The ways to use him!

      If the Giants can figure out how to set up a wedge for kickoffs, imagine two speedsters like Ginn and Moss back there? Who to kick it to?!

      Ginn on punts is obvious.

      Ginn and Moss on reverses? Jeez.
      Yeah right, like Tom Coughlin and Kevin Gilbride would ever think of actually utlizing a players ability? Heh.

      I know Gilbride didn't call any trick plays in his short time there. Before that we only called one reverse to Michael Jennings I believe.
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      • Originally posted by ricky bobby View Post
        Toomer 33 years old, Plax 30 years old, not a great route runner. Toomer was goo in his prime because he ran great routes, was very reliable and had great hands. We need to get a guy that can imediately replace him if he goes down due to his injury and tender age. If Toomer goes down, or retires next year, there will be nobody to step into that role. I propose the following players by round.

        1. Robert Meachem, Dwayne Bowe
        2. Craig Davis, Jason Hill, Steve Smith, Andrae Allison
        3. Mike Walker, Laurent Robinson

        Most of those guys have good size, good speed. They have a chance to replace Toomer when he gets injured or inevitably retires. Best case would be CB in round one and then Craig Davis in round 2.
        And my friggin point is that we can get an Amani Toomer any year in the middle rounds, no need to do it now where he is still on the team and still our #2 WR. Ginn would bring a dimension to this offense that it sorely needs, not to mention Devin Hester like return ability.
        Originally posted by Paul
        Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
        Originally posted by Vikes99ej
        These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
        MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Forenci View Post
          Yeah right, like Tom Coughlin and Kevin Gilbride would ever think of actually utlizing a players ability? Heh.

          I know Gilbride didn't call any trick plays in his short time there. Before that we only called one reverse to Michael Jennings I believe.
          I'll give you one guess why.
          Originally posted by Paul
          Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
          Originally posted by Vikes99ej
          These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
          MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

          Comment


          • Well, even when Moss was healthy they never called a trick play using a reverse.

            Tell me Number 10, you really think Ted Ginn with average hands, below average route running, and superb speed is a first round pick? I mean, I was just in a thread about Mike Williams and Troy Willamson and Ginn reminded me completely of Troy. Has superb speed which blinds people to his other average/below average skills as a receiver. To argue that he has good hands or great route running would be extremely pointless because I'm sure even you can agree upon it.

            He's no where near Devin Hesters punt/kick return ability either because Hester is not only fast, but he is extremely elusive. Not to mention I clearly remember Ginn muffing several punts over the years. Against Michigan in 2005 he muffed two of them only to be saved by Santonio Holmes.

            His speed is awesome, but he shouldn't be in the first round by any means. If he had ran a 4.45 on a 40, he wouldn't be nearly as coveted. So does speed a lone warrant a first round selection? Not at all. I can also agree with Ricky Bobby in the fact Jerry Reese would never draft Ted Ginn in the first. There's a chance he could go for Meachem or Bowe, but that's about it.
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            • There is such a thing as overkill. And adding Ted Ginn in with Sinorice Moss would be overkill. It would be like adding Tony Hunt to Brandon Jacobs. Or another DE in round 1. There is just absolutely no need for it. And we have plenty of needs.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ricky bobby View Post
                There is such a thing as overkill. And adding Ted Ginn in with Sinorice Moss would be overkill. It would be like adding Tony Hunt to Brandon Jacobs. Or another DE in round 1. There is just absolutely no need for it. And we have plenty of needs.
                Or like Reuben Droughns to Brandon Jacobs?

                Hm.
                Originally posted by Paul
                Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
                Originally posted by Vikes99ej
                These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
                MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Forenci View Post
                  Well, even when Moss was healthy they never called a trick play using a reverse.

                  Tell me Number 10, you really think Ted Ginn with average hands, below average route running, and superb speed is a first round pick? I mean, I was just in a thread about Mike Williams and Troy Willamson and Ginn reminded me completely of Troy. Has superb speed which blinds people to his other average/below average skills as a receiver. To argue that he has good hands or great route running would be extremely pointless because I'm sure even you can agree upon it.

                  He's no where near Devin Hesters punt/kick return ability either because Hester is not only fast, but he is extremely elusive. Not to mention I clearly remember Ginn muffing several punts over the years. Against Michigan in 2005 he muffed two of them only to be saved by Santonio Holmes.

                  His speed is awesome, but he shouldn't be in the first round by any means. If he had ran a 4.45 on a 40, he wouldn't be nearly as coveted. So does speed a lone warrant a first round selection? Not at all. I can also agree with Ricky Bobby in the fact Jerry Reese would never draft Ted Ginn in the first. There's a chance he could go for Meachem or Bowe, but that's about it.
                  I'm just saying you don't know a damn thing about the footbal mind of Coughlin or Gilbride, let alone both. They added an entire piece to the playbook for Moss last year, and just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it does not exist. There is a little bit more to calling plays than you will ever know, so don't try to dive into X's and O's with me.

                  And stop with the below average route running talk because it is false. He has average route running which can easily be improved....in fact route running and hands are the two easiest traits of a WR to improve over the course of a prospect's first couple years anyway. So now Troy Williamson is the same kind of player that Ginn is? Tell me why please. Is it because Williamson had a blazing 40 time? Tell me how they compare with the ball in their hands, tell me how they compare in the return game, tell me how they compare in the screen/reverse game. How about short routes? Or maybe you really can't compare the two because you have seen enough of the two to formulate a real opinion.

                  Ginn is faster than Hester and while he may not be as elusive (although it is close) he is just as explosive in terms of reaching peak speed very quickly. He makes cuts on a dime and seems to be at top speed while everyone else around him is still adjusting to his cut.

                  He works out next week and I honestly don't care if he runs a 4.5 because like I said, I have seen his speed on the field and that is the only thing I care about. And you know what, I don't think Reese will draft Ginn either. I would not be suprised either way but that is not the debate here, the debate is what would we do.
                  Originally posted by Paul
                  Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
                  Originally posted by Vikes99ej
                  These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
                  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Number 10 View Post
                    Or like Reuben Droughns to Brandon Jacobs?

                    Hm.
                    Yeah, because Droughns cost us a first round pick.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ricky bobby View Post
                      There is such a thing as overkill. And adding Ted Ginn in with Sinorice Moss would be overkill. It would be like adding Tony Hunt to Brandon Jacobs. Or another DE in round 1. There is just absolutely no need for it. And we have plenty of needs.
                      Whether we need a wr in the 1st or not, there is a huge difference between adding one, or adding another rb/ de....only 1 rb can run the ball, yeah you can misdirect, but if you have 2 big less elusive guys...thats not gonna work, neither Hunt or Jacobs are blocking fullback types...so it would be pointless to field both of them too often.
                      Same thing w/ des we have 2 good starters, 1 b/up that can play inside a bit, one that could play a bit lb, it would be a stretch to get a 5th.
                      If we have 2 wrs that are extremely fast, and send both deep, whether run or pass you are going to have multiple defenders deep as well, opening up underneath routes, taking extra defenders out of the box, and setting up the defense for trick plays. As opposed to 2 rbs, or 2 des, you can field 3 wrs as a base offense, or more in passing situations. Look at our opponents in the east, who has 2 cbs that can run with moss, ginn, and another 1-2 that can cover plax, toomer?
                      Personally I'd rather not go wr in the 1st, but I could see its benefits.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Number 10 View Post
                        I'm just saying you don't know a damn thing about the footbal mind of Coughlin or Gilbride, let alone both. They added an entire piece to the playbook for Moss last year, and just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it does not exist. There is a little bit more to calling plays than you will ever know, so don't try to dive into X's and O's with me.

                        And stop with the below average route running talk because it is false. He has average route running which can easily be improved....in fact route running and hands are the two easiest traits of a WR to improve over the course of a prospect's first couple years anyway. So now Troy Williamson is the same kind of player that Ginn is? Tell me why please. Is it because Williamson had a blazing 40 time? Tell me how they compare with the ball in their hands, tell me how they compare in the return game, tell me how they compare in the screen/reverse game. How about short routes? Or maybe you really can't compare the two because you have seen enough of the two to formulate a real opinion.

                        Ginn is faster than Hester and while he may not be as elusive (although it is close) he is just as explosive in terms of reaching peak speed very quickly. He makes cuts on a dime and seems to be at top speed while everyone else around him is still adjusting to his cut.

                        He works out next week and I honestly don't care if he runs a 4.5 because like I said, I have seen his speed on the field and that is the only thing I care about. And you know what, I don't think Reese will draft Ginn either. I would not be suprised either way but that is not the debate here, the debate is what would we do.
                        I'm not going to get into an arguement over this, not because you're right or wrong, but instead because I respect your opinion enough to buy into some of what you're saying.

                        That said, I've watched a ton of Ohio State games over the past years and from what I have personally seen, and as I mentioned before it's just an opinion, most of his big plays come from running in a straight line and I've seen him run many bad routes and not be able to juke out a linebacker in the open field. That said, I've also seen him blaze a kick return in making the special teams look silly. I've seen him completely burn some of the fastest corners, and so on.

                        The thing that scares me is I'm not sure if his speed will be enough in the NFL. He just seems like a boom or bust type to me, and I'm not a big fan of that.

                        The primary reason I don't want him though is we haven't given Sinorice Moss a chance to develop. For all we know he might end up being better than Ted Ginn and be our replacement for Amani. It just seems like a waste of a pick if we're basically condeming him as the fourth wide receiver when he hasn't had a chance to prove himself. Not only that, but basically draft the same type of receiver that we have in him, in Ted Ginn.

                        I think you mistake me for not liking Ted Ginn, which just isn't true. As I've said many times before, I've seen him play a lot and always thought he was a great college player - I'm just afraid from what I've seen if he is going to be a great NFL receiver.
                        (shameless self-promotion)
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                        • Originally posted by ricky bobby View Post
                          Yeah, because Droughns cost us a first round pick.
                          And if I told you back when the beginning of FA started that Droughns would be the guy to spell Jacobs, you would have the same "overkill" reaction you have now.
                          Originally posted by Paul
                          Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
                          Originally posted by Vikes99ej
                          These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
                          MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Number 10 View Post
                            And if I told you back when the beginning of FA started that Droughns would be the guy to spell Jacobs, you would have the same "overkill" reaction you have now.
                            Tim Carter was worth nothing, therefore we got Droughns for nothing. If you want to sign 10 speedy UDFA, be my guest. Don't waste a first round pick on one.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ricky bobby View Post
                              Tim Carter was worth nothing, therefore we got Droughns for nothing. If you want to sign 10 speedy UDFA, be my guest. Don't waste a first round pick on one.
                              So we can get another Tim Carter on our team? No thanks.

                              And again, if two months ago I were to tell you that instead of a thunder/lightning type backfield we were gonna have Droughns and Jacobs as our dual attack, you would have called it overkill.
                              Originally posted by Paul
                              Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
                              Originally posted by Vikes99ej
                              These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
                              MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Number 10 View Post
                                So we can get another Tim Carter on our team? No thanks.

                                And again, if two months ago I were to tell you that instead of a thunder/lightning type backfield we were gonna have Droughns and Jacobs as our dual attack, you would have called it overkill.
                                Tim Carter = Ted Ginn Jr.

                                Both straight line speedsters who would make better track athletes than football players.

                                I would tell you it's overkill, but if you mentioned that we got another powerback for Tim Carter, I wouldn't care. If you told me that we spent a first round pick on him, i'd be extremely dissapointed with Reese.

                                We're going in circles here, and you're missing (or ignoring) my point. My point being that we should spend our 1st day draft picks on guys that we actually need.

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