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  • He can suck it then. I'd rather have Paul or Deron Williams. We have enough pieces to get a deal done if they want out, which they probably will because Williams is still somewhat pissed at the Jazz for trading his best friend and the Hornets have been a **** organization since Paul has been there.

    I'll take my chances on Melo in the off-season. As long as nothing wacky happens we can just S&T for Melo and get him his money.
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    • I'm tired of waiting for stars to come here. I don't want us to just assume we'll get CP3 or Derron. Like we assumed we'd get Lebron, like we assumed we'd get Melo.

      We have a chance to get a star player, let's get him. I think we should hold tough and not include Mozgov, but if the clock is ticking on Thursday and Melo is a minute away from signing with the Nets, then you include Mozgov.

      There's no question in my mind that I rather have CP3 or Derron than Melo, but I have no idea if we will get either one. Here's a chance to get Melo, let's get him.

      Comment


      • You keep saying get Melo now cause he is a star but what is the point in giving up just about all your assets if you cant win with him.

        Comment


        • Bc our assets aren't as great as we think they are. You can fill in the gaps with other players.

          You're not getting Melo just for this year, this is a long term commitment. Think big picture, 2-3 years down the road.

          In 2 years we can easily fill the rest of our roster and make a run. I don't think we can say the same thing if we go with the Gallo/Chandler/Felton combo long term moving forward.

          The only asset that truly hurts to me is losing Felton. Gallo, Chandler, and Mozgov, we can live without those guys.

          Felton hurts a little. Hopefully Billups has some left in the tank and can mesh in this system.

          Comment


          • If this trade goes down and Mozgov is included, our new starting lineup is:

            Turiaf
            Stat
            Melo

            Billups
            Fields

            That starting 5 is still better than the one we currently have. Now sure, our bench takes a big hit in the short term, but we can live with that. Bench players aren't the biggest deal in the world, it's all about your starting 5 in the playoffs.

            We might lose Turiaf in the offseason, so we'll need to sign a big man. That's why I'm hoping we keep Mozgov, bc he allows us to use a Mozzy/Turiaf 1,2 punch at Center all game long and keep Stat at the PF spot throughout the game, but if we lose him, it's not the end of the world.

            I'd imagine our small lineup would be

            Stat
            Shawn Williams
            Melo
            Fields
            Billups

            Not too thrilled with that small lineup, and we all know D'Antoni loves small lineups, but again, the bottom line is this trade makes our starting 5 better, no question about it.

            To me, this trade hurts your bench, that's it. But I'm just not valuing the bench as much as you guys are. It's just not that important in the playoffs.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
              Bc our assets aren't as great as we think they are. You can fill in the gaps with other players.

              You're not getting Melo just for this year, this is a long term commitment. Think big picture, 2-3 years down the road.

              In 2 years we can easily fill the rest of our roster and make a run. I don't think we can say the same thing if we go with the Gallo/Chandler/Felton combo long term moving forward.

              The only asset that truly hurts to me is losing Felton. Gallo, Chandler, and Mozgov, we can live without those guys.

              Felton hurts a little. Hopefully Billups has some left in the tank and can mesh in this system.
              I thought the goal was to win a title this move doesn't bring us closer to that seriously look at this bench after this trade

              C Turiaf
              PF Shawne Williams/Sheldon Williams
              SF Bill Walker
              SG Roger Mason/Azubuike
              PG Douglas/Anthony Carter

              That is an awful awful bench. Amare and Melo are not going to win a title by themselves. Your not going to win with just two guys.

              Big picture? I assumed the big picture was to make a move for a title this is just you gutting your team for a guy who is right now clearly over rated. You keep complaining oh our pieces are over rated the 2 main pieces we are getting back are over rated as well.

              You can make moves around Gallo, Chandler and Felton as well to make a run at a future title as well. When you make a move for a Melo you are making a move to win now not in 2 years. That is why Melo wanted out of Denver in the 1st place He wants to win now.

              The most valuable asset we are giving is Gallo weather you want to admit it or not.

              Comment


              • Melo isn't going to all of a sudden start sucking in 2 years.

                Stat easily has at least 4 more years in the tank. Seriously, who gives a crap about the bench. We just need to somehow keep a combo of Mozgov/Turiaf long term to keep our Center position decent for a full 45 minutes, and we need a backup PG.

                We needed to do that anyway. Now with Melo, you don't need a great bench, bc your starting 5 doesn't take a monumental hit on offense when you rest Stat, bc Melo is still on the floor. Conversely, when Melo needs a rest, you run the offense through Stat while he's off the floor, so our offense never takes the nosedive that it currently does whenever Stat gets a breather.

                You're overrating the role of the bench immensely. We won't win crap with Gallo/Chandler/Felton long term.

                Bring Felton back in 2 years if we can't get CP3, keep our draft picks starting in 2012 and just go from there.

                Comment


                • Think about this for a second. Our bench, if this trade goes down, is the same bench that we currently have minus

                  Chandler
                  Mozgov

                  So we're complaining about what this does to our bench? Why? Bc we lose Chandler and Mozgov?

                  So it's more important to ultimately, not improve our starting lineup for the sake of keeping these 2 rotation guys?

                  Think about it.

                  Comment


                  • I think you're severely underrating the power of a good bench, BBD. This isn't college basketball where you get a few days off between every game so it's okay to have a short bench. Look back at a number of the teams who have one championships. Having a few good bench players can be huge in trying to win a ring. Guys like Posey and House for the when the Celtic won theirs. Odom for the Lakers. Manu and Robert Horry for the Spurs teams (amongst others). I mean the Spurs were more known more for their great bench and defense rather than having several stars. Manu and Parker are great players but few people consider them elite.

                    I don't know how much basketball you've watched since the Knicks have sucked BBD, but having a good bench is critical not only to your team success in the playoffs but as well as keeping guys fresh during the season, thereby having them at their best in the playoffs. Look how the Spurs have maintained themselves through the years, despite aging. Hell, they're the best team in the NBA again now that they've got an elite bench with guys like Gary Neal, George Hill, James Anderson, etc.
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                    • Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                      Melo isn't going to all of a sudden start sucking in 2 years.

                      Stat easily has at least 4 more years in the tank. Seriously, who gives a crap about the bench. We just need to somehow keep a combo of Mozgov/Turiaf long term to keep our Center position decent for a full 45 minutes, and we need a backup PG.

                      We needed to do that anyway. Now with Melo, you don't need a great bench, bc your starting 5 doesn't take a monumental hit on offense when you rest Stat, bc Melo is still on the floor. Conversely, when Melo needs a rest, you run the offense through Stat while he's off the floor, so our offense never takes the nosedive that it currently does whenever Stat gets a breather.

                      You're overrating the role of the bench immensely. We won't win crap with Gallo/Chandler/Felton long term.

                      Bring Felton back in 2 years if we can't get CP3, keep our draft picks starting in 2012 and just go from there.
                      I didn't say he would start sucking but the whole point of him wanting out is cause Denver is not in position to win. The lineup as it would stand after this trade( I think Moz stays and without looking at any moves we can make after) does not win you a title which defeats the whole purpose of the move.

                      People who actually know basketball give a crap about the bench. Every team that has won a title has won with good role players off the bench you cant win with out them.

                      This isn't a video game in real basketball you need role players.

                      If your going to rest Stat and just play Melo you are taking a huge hit on offense what are you talking about? Amare is our only post presence on O. Who is going to score in the post with the roster as it would stand after this trade? Seriously don't worry I will wait for you to come up for 1 offensive option we would have cause we would have none we would be even more jumper based with those lineups.

                      Your under rating the role of the bench. You wont win crap with just 2 players.

                      Felton would came back again why? and your getting CP3 away from the NBA owned Hornets how?

                      Comment


                      • Phil Jackson has won more rings than anybody. His solution when going against a team with a great bench has always been simple in the playoffs:

                        Play your starters the whole game.

                        And it's worked obviously. Your bench wins in the regular season and keeps your guys fresh for the postseason. Come playoff time, you just need 2 solid bench guys who can rotate in when need be.

                        If we can keep Mozgov and resign Turiaf to a reasonable contract, that's 1 rotation guy.

                        Now we just need to get another. That's what the draft is for. Sure, outside the top 5 picks in the draft you usually won't find a great player, but if you draft well, you can fill out your bench in the draft.

                        We found Fields in the 2nd didn't we?

                        Even if you feel the bench is a big factor in winning championships, I don't see why you feel it would be so difficult to find replacements to fill out your bench.

                        Look at Orlando for example. They "improved" their depth with some moves this season right? Well has it led to any change in their win/loss %? No! Bc bench players are bench players.

                        I've been watching basketball for a long long time. Basketball was my first love growing up. Some things never change. The bench isn't as critical as you think.

                        Bench players are very replacable. Star players are not. When you get a chance to get a star, go get him.

                        Ask Patrick Ewing if merely having solid role players around you is enough to get over the hump.

                        The Knicks have been there, done that.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LTgiants View Post
                          I didn't say he would start sucking but the whole point of him wanting out is cause Denver is not in position to win. The lineup as it would stand after this trade( I think Moz stays and without looking at any moves we can make after) does not win you a title which defeats the whole purpose of the move.

                          People who actually know basketball give a crap about the bench. Every team that has won a title has won with good role players off the bench you cant win with out them.

                          This isn't a video game in real basketball you need role players.

                          If your going to rest Stat and just play Melo you are taking a huge hit on offense what are you talking about? Amare is our only post presence on O. Who is going to score in the post with the roster as it would stand after this trade? Seriously don't worry I will wait for you to come up for 1 offensive option we would have cause we would have none we would be even more jumper based with those lineups.

                          Your under rating the role of the bench. You wont win crap with just 2 players.

                          Felton would came back again why? and your getting CP3 away from the NBA owned Hornets how?
                          He wants out of Denver bc he wants to live the NY lifestyle. It has nothing to do with winning. It has nothing to do with anything other than lifestyloe. His wife gets to market herself in NY, he gets endorsement deals and the bright lights, and NYC clubs are better than Denver clubs.

                          That's why he wants to be here.

                          I find it funny how you think I know nothing about basketball. Whether you like it or not, we're probably getting Melo.

                          And when you see the results, you'll realize how much you're overrating our current role players.

                          We're the ******* 6th seed. If these guys were so great we wouldn't be the 6th seed.

                          If you were a Knicks fan in the 90s, you'd probably be one of the guys who wouldn't want to trade the Oakleys and Anthony Masons of the world for a Sprewell.

                          I've seen this story before. I know my basketball. Trust me, you don't want to pass on Melo to keep these scrubs on our team.

                          Comment


                          • In 92 or 93, I'm forgetting which year it was, the Knicks had a chance to trade Oakley and Xavier McDaniel plus a 1st for Dominique Wilkins.

                            And we passed on it. Bc we thought our role players were enough around Ewing to take out Jordan and Pippen.

                            It was ********. A Ewing/Wilkins combo wouldn't fall short to Jordan every single year in 6 or 7 games like we did. Ewing needed that one guy he could kick it out to, and he never had it in his prime.

                            We can't fall for that same trap. Whether you think Melo is overrated or not, he's 1 BILLION times better than anyone else on our team. Hell, he's better than Stat too.

                            So why the hell wouldn't you trade a bunch of role players for him? The whole planet outside of Knick fans thinks this is a fair trade.

                            Why?

                            Bc they know our players aren't that good. To me, this trade is robbery on our part.

                            I just don't get why you guys are so against it. I really don't.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                              Phil Jackson has won more rings than anybody. His solution when going against a team with a great bench has always been simple in the playoffs:

                              Play your starters the whole game.

                              And it's worked obviously. Your bench wins in the regular season and keeps your guys fresh for the postseason. Come playoff time, you just need 2 solid bench guys who can rotate in when need be.

                              If we can keep Mozgov and resign Turiaf to a reasonable contract, that's 1 rotation guy.

                              Now we just need to get another. That's what the draft is for. Sure, outside the top 5 picks in the draft you usually won't find a great player, but if you draft well, you can fill out your bench in the draft.

                              We found Fields in the 2nd didn't we?

                              Even if you feel the bench is a big factor in winning championships, I don't see why you feel it would be so difficult to find replacements to fill out your bench.

                              Look at Orlando for example. They "improved" their depth with some moves this season right? Well has it led to any change in their win/loss %? No! Bc bench players are bench players.

                              I've been watching basketball for a long long time. Basketball was my first love growing up. Some things never change. The bench isn't as critical as you think.

                              Bench players are very replacable. Star players are not. When you get a chance to get a star, go get him.

                              Ask Patrick Ewing if merely having solid role players around you is enough to get over the hump.

                              The Knicks have been there, done that.
                              That is not what Phil does at all. You have never seen his whole starting lineup play all 48 minutes.

                              Name a team that won a title with only 2 players off the bench? not any of Phil's teams cause he had more then 2 guys off the bench.

                              Thats not what Orlando did at all they traded VC for Hedo cause Vince Carter was awful and Otis Smith decided to take a gamble on Arenas cause they have history that has nothing to with Depth

                              If anything they gave away depth when they traded Gortat in that deal and now when Dwight has to rest they are screwed.

                              Landry fields is a exception not the norm most 2nd rounders are in the D-league or are in International Ball. Seriously for every 2nd round steal you can name I can name more busts.

                              Ask MJ if having a bench helped him at all? How about Shaq? Larry Bird? Magic? I can name a bunch more great players who won titles with having role players

                              Teams win with a bench including the Bulls and Lakers.

                              Fine show us your plan BBD play the role of Donnie Walsh and show me what kind of moves you want to make to improve the depth this trade kills. A team with guys like Melo and Amare need depth you cant argue against it.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                                In 92 or 93, I'm forgetting which year it was, the Knicks had a chance to trade Oakley and Xavier McDaniel plus a 1st for Dominique Wilkins.

                                And we passed on it. Bc we thought our role players were enough around Ewing to take out Jordan and Pippen.

                                It was ********. A Ewing/Wilkins combo wouldn't fall short to Jordan every single year in 6 or 7 games like we did. Ewing needed that one guy he could kick it out to, and he never had it in his prime.

                                We can't fall for that same trap. Whether you think Melo is overrated or not, he's 1 BILLION times better than anyone else on our team. Hell, he's better than Stat too.

                                So why the hell wouldn't you trade a bunch of role players for him? The whole planet outside of Knick fans thinks this is a fair trade.

                                Why?

                                Bc they know our players aren't that good. To me, this trade is robbery on our part.

                                I just don't get why you guys are so against it. I really don't.
                                It might have to do with the fact that Wilkins was in his 30's and was on the start of decline

                                No the whole planet doesn't think its a fair trade there are plenty of people who don't think its a good deal.

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