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  • Originally posted by LTgiants View Post
    We made a offer for Kuhn but he said No

    http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2...for_fullb.html
    whats interesting is that our offer was higher than the 3 year $7.5m he got with the packers.

    Considering that the Giants had a very tough cap situation that is a lot of interest and very good money for a FB.

    I wonder whether us chasing Kuhn could have cost us a quality LB - for example Stephen Tulloch got a 1 year $3.25m deal which is not much more than we offered Kuhn.

    Will we look at LeRon McClain?

    Perhaps our interest in Jason Snelling is due to Kuhn resigning with the Packers.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JBCX View Post
      DT: After losing Barry Cofield in free agency, I'm going to have to give the edge to the Eagles, especially after their signing of Cullen Jenkins. Marvin Austin and Linval Joseph have potential, but at this point they are still completely unproven. The Eagles have more depth and proven talent at this position right now.

      Despite what other fans think, Barry Cofield is overrated. Fred Robbins was a much more productive DT and showed this when he was used in the correct way with Spags w/ the giants and rams. I believe the giants upgraded the position not only with drafting Austin, signing URFA Parker, signing Gabe Watson, moving Canty to UT instead of NT, but with Linval Joseph stepping into the lineup.

      Joseph is a monster, and in a rotation with Watson we should see a vast improvement to run defense up the middle. Austin, Canty, Parker or whoever else makes the roster at UT should be worlds better bc Austin and Canty were both playing NT in their defenses and moving to a 1 on 1 matchup with the guard is going to deliver at least 1 or 2 big plays a game.

      You can say eagles won this with Jenkins being the reason, but I believe our DTs will perform better.


      DE: I'll give the definite edge to the Giants because Osi and Tuck are superior to Babin and Cole, but it's not as wide of a gap as you might believe. If the Giants are forced to trade Osi and rely on JPP this year, then the talent level is probably equal or even in favor of the Eagles unless JPP suddenly develops into a force in his second season, which is not a foregone conclusion at all.

      If we trade Osi, we will be better. Kiwi and JPP vs the run compared to Osi vs the run is a great improvement. The dropoff in passrush might be a little to start off, but Kiwi had 4 sacks in 3 games before injury and JPP is easily the most freakish athletic player. JPP is gunna be good. We win this without question, big gap.


      LB: I'd say it's a push. They both have a mix of some average-quality veterans and some rookies/sophomores with some potential. Nothing stands out on either team just yet.

      This is a tossup

      CB: Right now it's hard to argue that the Eagles don't have more talent at this position. Say what you want to say about being better on "paper", but very few people would argue that Asomugha, Samuel, and Rodgers-Cromartie aren't, collectively, better than anything the Giants have.

      Rumor has it that Asante is looking for a trade, if that happens we win easily. How your corners are used once the season start will dictate who wins this, you have bigger name talent but we have more depth with all 5 being starting caliber players.

      S: The Eagles are relying on mostly rookies and second year players at this point, while the Giants have two proven veterans and an oft-injured, but talented, third year player. I'll give the edge to the Giants, but it's not a huge edge because none of the Giants safeties are more than slightly above-average at this point (Phillips being their best player, Rolle being overpaid for his talent level).

      Kenny will be better another year separated from his surgery. Rolle really came into his own once Fewell started using him as a blitzer, but I'd like to see him used as a joker/rover type player because he is a playmaker on the defense. The fact that you say its not a huge edge is why you should never post in here again.

      WR: Both teams have talented young players. The Eagles have more speed, however. Probably a push, or in favor of the Eagles depending on the status of NY's Steve Smith (if he doesn't play next year, the Giants are limited to Nicks and Manningham?)

      I will say Eagles, mostly because of how well Andy uses them in his offense.

      RB: LeSean McCoy is a top 15 RB in the NFL. Bradshaw and Jacobs are both solid. The Giants have more proven depth, but the I'd probably take McCoy over Jacobs or Bradshaw player vs player. Slightly in favor of the Eagles.

      Again, how McCoy is used makes him the better player, but in tandem im taking Jacobs and Bradshaw.

      QB: Vick has more raw talent than Eli, but is also more injury prone. It's hard to give either team a clear edge because their playing styles are so dramatically different. It all depends on how you feel about Vick's ability to play a full season without injury. The Eagles clearly have better depth, however, with Vince Young being probably the most talented backup QB in the NFL.

      Anytime you have a mobile QB, Vince Young is not the most talented backup in the NFL, but he is a good fit for the Eagles with his skillset being close to Vick's so the offense wont need to completely change what they are doing.

      I do think that with Vick's playingstyle he will get injured, but he is soo much more dangerous.


      OL: The Eagles have quality starters at LT, LG, and C. They have a rookie penciled in to start at RG, but that rookie is a first round pick that scouts were very high on. RT is somewhat up in the air depending on the status of Winston Justice. The Giants cut half of their OL in the off-season and will be starting a free agent in C, and likely starting rookies or sophomore players at one or more positions along the line. Diehl and McKenzie are solid players but a bit past their prime. Both lines have some questions, but the Eagles have more pure talent at this point, and younger talent.

      The Giants cut 2 OL who were both injury plagued and on the decline/end of their careers. Koets played extremely well, better than O'Hara, and when healthy I think he beats Baas. Baas is a very good run blocking C, so with his fit i think we get a slightly above average starter.

      We wont be starting a rookie/sophmore anywhere...you clearly dont know anything about the Giants, at least not enough to declare who has the better line.

      Beatty(3rd year) - David Diehl - Baas/Koets - Chris Snee - McKenzie

      Eagles allowed sacks; qb pressures: 49 (4th worst) ; 101 (3rd worst)

      Giants allowed sacks; qb pressures: 16 (tied for league best) ; 52 (4th best)


      Per: http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...qualified=true

      Plus....

      Winston Justice is on your line, you lose.


      TE: The Giants lost Kevin Boss and will have to find a new TE in trade or free agency. The Eagles have Brent Celek, Clay Harbor, and Donald Lee. I'll give the edge to the Eagles, for sure.

      I agree

      K/P: The Eagles are relying on a rookie kicker, but that kicker was the best kicker in college football last year. The punter situation is a question mark. The Giants are still relying on Lawrence Tynes at kicker. Matt Dodge showed flashes of both brilliance and ineptitude last year. Because of the question marks for Philly in this area, I'll give the edge to the Giants.

      I have no idea, this is a tossup as well.

      To recap:

      DT: Eagles Giants
      DE: Giants (pending Osi trade, then Eagles) Giants w/o a doubt
      LB: Push Tossup
      CB: EaglesEagles depending on Asante trade and how they are used by a OC as a DC
      S: GiantsGiants
      WR: Push (pending Steve Smith status, then Eagles)Eagles
      RB: Eagles Giants
      QB: Subjective Eagles
      OL: Eagles -_______- ...... Giants
      TE: Eagles Eagles
      K/P: Giants Tossup
      (10 characters)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by gpngc View Post
        A 4th and Carlson should do it.

        You have no leverage in trade talks. Osi's clearly disgruntled.
        How do we have no leverage? It's not like it matters if Osi pouts and says he wont play. We have 2 other DE's that could start. He's the one that has no leverage.

        Heck the Chargers needed a WR badly but didnt cave on VJax. We told him he could look for a trade only if it were a non-nfc east team and for a 1st round pick. We not only did this because we'd be willing to do it, but i think we did it because we know no one would give us that. Osi thinks he would net a 1st round pick because he wants elite DE money, but this will show him he's not worth that if no one offers a 1st. If they do then we're happy to be compensated.

        The only thing the giants have to worry about is Tuck or Kiwi getting injured and only having JPP and one of them playing. We need a rotation to be effective.

        Originally posted by gpngc View Post
        Then he'll probably have to keep Osi. Here's hoping Osi has a smile on his face this season.
        two seasons ago Osi complained about not being a starter, we kept him out. He wasnt playing well enough probably bc he was just recovering from an injury a season previous. He stepped up his game (at least passrushing-wise) and regained his position. If he comes back he'll just play well, he wants to get paid and the only way to do that is to perform up to the standards of an elite DE (passrusher and run defender).

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        • So now we're only asking for a 2nd rd'er for Osi. If a good team like the Ravens gives that up and we pick late 2nd it's not worth it. This is ****.
          #Chop


          sig by BoneKrusher

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          • Originally posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
            So now we're only asking for a 2nd rd'er for Osi. If a good team like the Ravens gives that up and we pick late 2nd it's not worth it. This is ****.
            please seattle, give us your first.

            Comment


            • Hopefully Al Davis gets involved out of spite for the Seahawks stealing Zach Miller from him.

              Comment


              • Ohm says we have not lowered

                Hearing NYG haven't lowered yet RT @JasonLaCanfora: if Giants lower demand for Osi from 1st rnd pick, BAL, SEA, NE + possibly ATL interested

                Comment


                • The other resolution I could see is reworking his deal, increasing the money a little and adding decent incentives along with dropping off the final year of his contract, which would make him an UFA after this season

                  That would give Osi more money, and guarantee he gets his payday next year. plus NYG would have a very motivated DE (both to reach incentives and maximise his value for his next deal).

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Big_Pete View Post
                    The other resolution I could see is reworking his deal, increasing the money a little and adding decent incentives along with dropping off the final year of his contract, which would make him an UFA after this season

                    That would give Osi more money, and guarantee he gets his payday next year. plus NYG would have a very motivated DE (both to reach incentives and maximise his value for his next deal).
                    If we drop the final year off his contract, why would we give him more money? So pay him more and not get anything for him in return? That doesn't make much sense.

                    Comment


                    • I don't care anymore.

                      If we keep him, great, we have another pass rusher. If we trade him, great, we have another draft pick. At this point, who cares. He's our least versatile pass rusher. Even under Spags he'd complain when he was dropped back in coverage on zone blitzes.

                      You're not good enough to be such a diva Osi. I want to keep him, but if we lose him, big deal.

                      We have Kiwi and JPP. We'll be ok. And if we can get something out of Joseph and Austin, then we'll be very dangerous along the dline with or without him.

                      Comment


                      • Kiwi looked great last year but he's coming off a career threatening neck injury. We weren't even sure he would be back. JPP is still raw also and while he looked good at times there were also plays that he was lost. A lot of his sacks last year were just cleaning up on Tuck or Osi's work. I'm going to lose this argument because Osi is definitely out of here but for everyone trying to justify this move that it wont hurt the team is fooling themselves. One injury and our vaunted D-Line is just about average.
                        #Chop


                        sig by BoneKrusher

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                        • Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                          I don't care anymore.

                          If we keep him, great, we have another pass rusher. If we trade him, great, we have another draft pick. At this point, who cares. He's our least versatile pass rusher. Even under Spags he'd complain when he was dropped back in coverage on zone blitzes.

                          You're not good enough to be such a diva Osi. I want to keep him, but if we lose him, big deal.

                          We have Kiwi and JPP. We'll be ok. And if we can get something out of Joseph and Austin, then we'll be very dangerous along the dline with or without him.

                          It's good we move on from Osi..

                          Who do you think is better Osi or Tuck?

                          I would say Tuck.. Also, if you pay Osi what he wants, then we may very well cause a chain reaction of players who want to get more money, starting with Tuck, who will look at his contract as a slap in the face, since he may think he is more productive than Osi.

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                          • Originally posted by Boss+Manning=Banning View Post
                            It's good we move on from Osi..

                            Who do you think is better Osi or Tuck?

                            I would say Tuck.. Also, if you pay Osi what he wants, then we may very well cause a chain reaction of players who want to get more money, starting with Tuck, who will look at his contract as a slap in the face, since he may think he is more productive than Osi.
                            Yeah pretty much. Tuck I think only make 100,000 more than Osi right now. No one person is bigger than the team.

                            Comment


                            • There's no denying that losing Osi will hurt our pass rush. Anytime you lose a 10 sack a season guy, you lose some pass rush.

                              But I'm just tired of it. Enough already. Yes my main concern is health too, bc Tuck is always hurt and so is Kiwi, so our pass rush could take a huge hit without Osi, but for the longterm interest of the team, maybe it's best we trade him.


                              Btw, remember how I said Moss would be an Eagle? They gave him an offer post retirement. I could see him giving in and taking it. Then I'm going to be really pissed.

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                              • Is Andy Reid retiring or something? Taking one last shot with Vick? With all these signings, something seems up.

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