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2010 New York Jets Draft Discussion

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  • #46
    I think our most pressing need is actually a pass rush. Safety is where we're most thin, and it's my favorite (and IMO most important) position on the defense, but I think it's far easy to hide a weakness at Safety than a weakness with a pass rush, and sometimes it was kind of painful for me to watch our guys try to muster up a pass rush. Plus, the NT and OLB positions are the most important in a 3-4, and an impact player off the edge makes a world of difference.

    I'd say our needs go in the order of:
    1. OLB
    2. Safety
    3. WR
    4. RB
    5. CB
    6. DE
    7. OL
    8. FB

    How the draft looks to be panning out, I'd like to see us draft them loosely in this order:
    1. WR/OLB
    2. WR/RB/S
    3. WR/RB/S/CB/DE/OLB
    4. CB/S/RB/DE/OLB/OL

    I wouldn't say Bethea is worth it either. He's young and actually a perfect fit, but he'd probably command a decent amount of money and I feel we have to use our first rounder either at another position or to acquire more picks.

    I think Earl Thomas is overrated, but on paper he's a good fit. I'm hoping we're not trying to trade up in the first though, so I'd be left to assume he's out of our reach. Taylor Mays, while an enforcer would be great, I see as just too great of a liability. He'd be perfect as a downhill force against the run, but I feel like he'd disallow some schematic versatility because of his limitations. Eric Berry would be perfect though. I'd really give up our entire draft and Leon for him and just say screw depth again. But that won't happen. Nate Allen just seems like an average player to me. Not too bad, nothing special. Major Wright is crap. Reshad Jones is overrated. He's an impressive athlete but he doesn't really know how to play. Chad Jones isn't committed to football. Morgan Burnett and Larry Asante are my two favorites for us, depending on what we're looking for. If we're looking for a ballhawk, a playmaker, a potential impact player, I think that's Burnett. I love him. He loves football, plays the game the right way, has range and athleticism, and can really do anything on the field. He just needs a little direction. As for Asante, he's not as talented, but he's a little bit more of an enforcer and he can more than hold his own in coverage. He has a natural instinct to go for the big hit than the pick, but he'd still be a real good player.
    Last edited by thetedginnshow; 03-08-2010, 02:00 AM.
    Ohio State Buckeyes Duke Blue Devils New York Jets St. Louis Cardinals San Jose Sharks Seattle Mariners

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    • #47
      I really don't want a trade up unless we can find someone as stupid as Mangini to give as a pick for nothing again. The 2 first round safeties other than Berry just seem to not be worth giving up draft depth for. I don't know how much of a difference Earl Thomas will make over a guy like Nate Allen. And as for Mays, I would be excited to get him, but he is such a risk.

      I think the Jets should probably sit where they are and hope that either Thomas or Mays fall into the 20s and if they have to trade up a few picks with the Rhodes fourth. Or as I would prefer, just trade down out of the first for Nate Allen as someone else suggested.

      Also, while it wouldn't be ideal at all, we could draft a mid round safety who would be passable but not a play maker (I have an unreasonable love for Myron Rolle even with the 4.7). Then we could draft another corner in the second and convert Lowery to safety and rotate the three guys (Smith, Lowery, and draft pick). I've said it many times, I believe that Lowery is physical enough and has ball skills to be a safety. His big issue as a corner is that he just can't run with receivers. Maybe we catch lightning in a bottle and he becomes a good safety.

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      • #48
        I always tend to post only around draft time and I am going to give some thoughts on trading up:

        1. Is always a possibility the way Tannenbaum drafts. Last year we traded up to 5 and traded up for Shonn Greene. I have a feeling unless something drops around 17 or higher, we won't trade up because at our draft slot, its way too many points and most of our trading options that we'd be willing to part with are gone.

        2. Safety is a pressing need but I see us struggling to get one of the top 3 guys. While I am a huge fan of Taylor May and he would be a great guy to drop in the box, he is such a big boom bust and after Gholston, I really struggle on the idea of physical freaks and as stated before too much of a liability. Oddly enough, this could wind up being an Al Davis pick. Eric Berry seems to be the only "safe" Safety pick but his value is too high at this point.
        Earl Thomas is overrated. Maybe a good pick but not great in my eyes. I have an easier time taking Nate Allen in the 2nd or 3rd round and trading up then, then selling our whole draft for an Eric Berry or Taylor Mays.

        3. This is a bit of a gamble yet deepish receiver draft. I would love to see us take a receiver in the first and build a legitimate deep threat for Sanchez. I don't care what people say but Cotcherry is arguably one of the best possession receivers. Obviously I am a major homer, but he makes all the catches and the last three games (especially), he always had two feet in and two hands on the ball. We gotta get a stretch guy. I would love Golden Tate with freakish speed and his work ethic is immense. Some people have Benn higher then him and some have Tate higher then Benn. I just feel like if Tate is on the board within our range, we pull the trigger.

        I really wouldn't mind us taking a solid 3-4 DE in this draft high either but we gotta do something about the exterior front 7 for defense. I love Calvin Pace but I can't get my head around Bryan Thomas since he was first drafted. We all know Shaun Ellis is old as stone and Marques Douglas is done, we gotta find someone to fill this.


        Via BoneKrusher

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        • #49
          Once free agency dies down a bit, I was thinking of creating a sort of mock draft on our board that we can all help decide on the picks for so as to better help us figure out who might be available for the Jets' first rounder. I'm putting this here as a reminder.
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          • #50
            It's interesting because while there's a ton of positions I could see getting addressed with #29, I'm not sure how many fits there are that seem realistic. A lot of the guys are valued too high and may not be there or are more second round types that would be reaches. Not really seeing many fits at FS unless somebody falls or they reach for a Chad Jones type, CB seems to be out the window, I could see Ryan liking Cody so maybe if he slips, Tate seems to be the only late first WR to make sense unless they reach for Thomas, Odrick seems to be the only end who has a chance to land in the late first, and at OLB maybe they like Graham if he slips or Hughes would be a really nice pickup if he's around in that spot. Probably a couple of other guys who could make sense but the fits aren't great Iupati maybe if he's around just for value? I'm just not seeing a ton of options right now. Seems our needs match up with value better for the most part either earlier or later, but maybe it's just me.

            Also I would LOVE Demaryius Thomas in the second round. Obviously he's not a sure thing but at that point I think he's more than worth the risk, in the first round it's definitely a gamble. He fits in pretty well though I think, especially with his blocking ability, and wouldn't be forced to start immediately.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by thetedginnshow View Post
              I'd say our needs go in the order of:
              1. OLB
              2. Safety
              3. WR
              4. RB
              5. CB
              6. DE
              7. OL
              8. FB

              How the draft looks to be panning out, I'd like to see us draft them loosely in this order:
              1. WR/OLB
              2. WR/RB/S
              3. WR/RB/S/CB/DE/OLB
              4. CB/S/RB/DE/OLB/OL
              I'm curious as to why you think a third string RB who probably won't see any significant playing time barring an injury is such a big need.

              Unless you think Leon is leaving of course.

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              • #52
                I would use the 1st and 2nd round picks to find a slot receiver (Golden Tate?) and an OLB. Then with the 4th round pick I would grab a guy who can get some time at DE and NT since the DL is getting up there in age. With the late round picks, RB and DB can be addressed.
                Penn State University - Detroit Red Wings - New York Jets - Red Bull New York - Fulham FC

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by gsorace View Post
                  I'm curious as to why you think a third string RB who probably won't see any significant playing time barring an injury is such a big need.

                  Unless you think Leon is leaving of course.
                  I think saying "barring an injury" is like saying the Jets are going to play football next year. I will bet everything that Greene gets injured, and he's either going to miss time or his production will suffer because of it. His running style and his body type is just too conducive to getting banged up.

                  And Leon's really not cut out to be a workhorse. He wasn't even playing that great before the injury anyway, at least IMO. Neither backs can pass protect all too well (Greene really not at all) and only Leon can catch. The issue with having two backs with such a lack of overlapping skills is that it makes it fairly obvious what you're going to do when either is in the game. So, not only is there the fact that they need a third back (or second if Leon leaves) to take at least 30-40% of the snaps, but neither back even has close to a complete skill set.

                  That's why I have the need "so high". I'll actually go and explain why I have each position where it is.

                  1. OLB - Getting to the QB is the most important thing to the 3-4 (minus the Belichek 3-4). Some people seem to think that our rush is good enough because how many "pressures" we get, Pace's sack numbers, and so on. But really, I feel like anyone that actually watched a game, most notably the playoff games, would realize that our pressure on QBs of actual good teams is kind of few and far between, and a decent amount of our sacks come from coverage sacks. I think this could also be attributed to some of our defender's lacking ability at disguising what they're doing pre-snap, as well as a lack of innovation in how they line up, but still, there's an issue with the pass rush. Gholston does nothing, Thomas really isn't even in there to generate sacks, and Westerman is up-and-coming. So that leaves Pace who, while decent at getting pressure, really isn't a sack artist. Now I know part of the beauty of Rex's schemes is that pressure can come from anywhere from anyone, but in crunch time, you kind of need a premier pass rusher to count on and I think we're fully capable of acquiring one in the draft.

                  2. Safety - I left this here since this is where I originally had it, and while I don't know if Pool will definitely be the answer, I think now you can slide this need way down, though I'd like to see us address it still.

                  3. WR - To me, we really only have one receiver, two if you count Keller. There's no guarantee Braylon will be here beyond this year, and since he's definitely never going to learn to not drop easy catches, I don't see why we should count on him as a premier receiver in the first place. So while a lot of people say we need a slot receiver, I think we should just be looking at a receiver in general. Plus, I think it's kind of stupid to type-cast for a slot receiver, because generally if you're doing that you're negatively limiting your search by looking for a smaller, quicker receiver that can get lost in traffic and stretch the field. And while that's all well and good, I think that stunts any growth the offense could have because that disables them from potentially developing that receiver into a #2 or #1 option. Like look at what the Colts had with Garcon and Collie for example. Both are fully capable of playing the slot position, but they can also profile as flankers or whatever. So anyway, I think we need a WR, and I don't think we should look for specific traits, such as "a slot guy", or a "burner", or any of that, and rather just find the best receiver for our team. It's really a great thing because if they know our team's weaknesses well, this draft happens to be deep at all of those positions.

                  4. RB - I already explained this earlier, but essentially, I think we need a well-rounded back. I have no problem with a game-breaker, but we need someone versed in more than just one thing.

                  5. CB - Well still, we only have what, four corners? And one of them's not that good and another one can clearly only play the nickel, so that leaves two capable of starting which isn't that good. Nickel coverages offer up a lot of possibilities for blitz schemes, so I'd like to see us in that formation more often (and they probably would too). Thus, another corner is still a relatively important need. I'd say it'd be someone that's pretty fast and pretty tough (not necessarily physical).

                  6. DE - You'd actually kind of think that this is like our top need considering Ellis is old and the others aren't really worth that much (though they came on very admirably this season). But, I just don't think it's a terribly high priority in this defense. True, it's important to stopping the run and freeing up the LBs, but I just think it's something where you need some depth and nothing more; certainly not a marquee name.

                  7. OL - This is actually looking ahead. Honestly, I doubt all the starters stay healthy again and I'd be willing to bet at least two go down with injury at some point. Plus, Faneca and Woody are pretty old, and Woody's really not even that good anymore. This is such a low need though because unlike all of the other positions, you don't see rotations during a game so you're really only looking for depth, not to mention the fact that OL is one of the easiest positions to transition from college to, so we can address the need when it becomes a little more apparent (probably next year).

                  8. FB - Even if T-Rich comes back he's like 40 years old. The FB is a fairly pivotal position for our offense and there always seems to be one good blocking FB in each draft. We'll need a successor at some point and I'm not so sure Davis is anything more than a stop-gap.

                  EDIT: In case anyone's coming back and reading this, with what we've done lately, I'd re-arrange things to be...

                  1. OLB
                  2. WR
                  3. CB
                  4. DE
                  5. OL
                  6. S
                  7. RB
                  8. FB
                  Last edited by thetedginnshow; 04-09-2010, 04:25 AM.
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                  • #54
                    Which 3-4 OLB's in this draft does everybody like for us? I'm a big Hughes guy, he would be my preference late round 1 and I kind of like Norwood as well in the second but I'm not sure he's an ideal fit for just getting after the QB though he's obviously very good at it. Also like Schofield and I go back and forth on Hardy for mid-rounds, and Worilds kind of intrigues me but I'm not too sure about him either.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by derza222 View Post
                      Which 3-4 OLB's in this draft does everybody like for us? I'm a big Hughes guy, he would be my preference late round 1 and I kind of like Norwood as well in the second but I'm not sure he's an ideal fit for just getting after the QB though he's obviously very good at it. Also like Schofield and I go back and forth on Hardy for mid-rounds, and Worilds kind of intrigues me but I'm not too sure about him either.
                      Obviously a homer pick and not an early guy or really a draftable guy. But getting George Johnson as a 7th rounder or UFA would be a really smart move. He was hampered by injuries his whole career but didn't take games off so his numbers were hampered. He is a really athletic guy who is a good size for the position. His best football may be ahead of him. With Westerman making such a positive impression last year, Johnson may be a possibility.

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                      • #56
                        Jerry Hughes would be my favorite. Then it's Thaddeus Gibson. Then Kindle? Then Eric Norwood. Then I think I like Worilds. Then probably Daniel T'eo-Nesheim and Junior Galette.
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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by thetedginnshow View Post
                          Jerry Hughes would be my favorite. Then it's Thaddeus Gibson. Then Kindle? Then Eric Norwood. Then I think I like Worilds. Then probably Daniel T'eo-Nesheim and Junior Galette.
                          Thing I don't like much about Kindle is that he's pretty up and down. Plus he's overvalued IMO if that makes any sense...Hughes for example seems to be a guy who should get picked higher than he will. Kindle seems to be the reverse, to me at least. What's the deal with Gibson? I know you're a bit of a OSU fan, isn't he a bit light? Doesn't look like he's got a massive frame either, and he certainly doesn't have huge pass rushing numbers. I'll be honest I've never watched him play but so I really don't know, but he seems like even less of a pass rusher than Norwood and to me that's the priority in any OLB that would come in, although obviously the ability to cover and make plays is important. I just think taking an all-around guy is a little too cute.

                          Love the Rutgers info as always Josh, definitely a guy I'll keep my eye on.

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                          • #58
                            I don't really like Kindle as a person, but he's supremely talented. His problem is that he can really only go forward, but he goes forward faster than any other 3-4 OLB in this draft. He's not the smartest, but as long as he doesn't have off-field troubles, he could post double digit sacks for us every year. I actually think Hughes and Gibson have better coverage abilities and play in space better, which is why I have them ranked higher, but Kindle is dynamic. His explosiveness from a stationary position is unreal. And really, he wasn't that inconsistent. Sometimes people say guys are inconsistent because they're not jumping off the screen, but really, he was just getting consumed by blockers. Moving him to DE, in my mind, was a terrible idea by Texas. He still had a ridiculous number of TFL's, but you saw less of him because just doesn't have much of a pass rush repertoire and his functional strength isn't really impressive enough to overwhelm them. But as a 3-4 OLB he could be pretty special... provided he gets into the right situation (and yeah, I doubt he makes it to our pick).

                            As for Gibson, his frame is about the same as Hughes. One thing I love about Hughes though is that he's got a thicker base, which Gibson doesn't really have. Really though, it just allows him to be more fluid, because he's very strong (I believe he posted something like 32 reps at the bench as proof). He's said he always felt like a linebacker at heart, so I think Ohio State had just miscast him a bit. It's funny though. Going back to when Gholston was around, he was always someone watching the games in person and on TV where I never really saw him jump off the screen, and I was surprised when I saw his stats and absolutely dumbfounded when I saw where he was projected to go. As for Gibson, I was always surprised that his numbers weren't better, because save for the Rose Bowl (but I think that's because I was at the game), he always jumped out at me. Really, I thought he'd be projected higher than Heyward, though I love him too. Gibson really is great in space though. I don't like his body structure though, it seems a little top heavy and short for my liking, and I think that can kind of affect his rush around the edge, but he's nasty. He's really the exact opposite of Gholston. Not really much of a freak, smart, nasty, great work ethic, never quits, great in space, and would love to stand up. Oh and he was born where I was born.

                            And as a side-note, he only declared for the draft because his mother recently got sick and he wants to pay the medical bills. He said he'd come back to win a NC had Tressel asked him to, but Jim gave him his blessing.

                            With Norwood, I've always liked him. He has the same birthday as me. I really like his pass rush ability. I think he's destined to be successful. I guess I'm just tempering my interest in him because I don't think we're looking at him.

                            Worilds I haven't seen enough of to make an educated decision but I'm pretty sure he's just kind of average. I like Galette for some reason and DTN is a pretty bad dude. They were a bad defense though so his numbers might be a bit skewed.
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                            • #59
                              Oh and I've re-thought what I think about the Safeties. I looked over some things and now I'm down with Earl Thomas. Pretty sure he won't be around for us, but still. Less high about Burnett and Asante now, and I think Kurt Coleman would be a real good late round option.

                              Also, I've completely changed my stance on the runningbacks. Before I thought it was essential we acquired someone with a plethora of skills, but having signed LDT, we really don't need to anymore. Now I would see a greater emphasis on speed.
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                              • #60
                                Kris Jenkins cant stay healthy. Ellis is how old? Douglas is gone.

                                Pouha played very well at DT last year. The other rotational players did too.
                                Doesnt hide the fact we are old on the d-line.

                                BPA for the first. Take the best kid you can turn into someone like Ellis at least.
                                Need to get younger and fast IMO.

                                A slot WR which is a major need can be found later i think. Or retain Leon and put him in the slot.

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