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  • If we trade both Robertson and Vilma for a NT and Draft picks that frees up a lot of money that we can hopefully invest in an offensive lineman and a wide receiver. Then we can just focus on OLB, OL, and Secondary on Day 1, and add depth at DL later in the draft. I think Ellis, Jenkins/Rogers, and Coleman would be a good fron 3.
    Penn State University - Detroit Red Wings - New York Jets - Red Bull New York - Fulham FC

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    • Originally posted by BroadwayJoe10 View Post
      If the rumors for faneca are true i'm pretty sure i dont mind. It allows us to draft RT this year and hold off drafting OG until next year; this person could compete for time with moore and eventually be faneca's replacement. At 31/32 he has 3-4 years of very solid play left in him.

      However, i don't beleive it's true. If i'm correct, wasn't he born in louisiana and went to LSU? He played for the steelers his whole life, so what is a paper in wine-country california reporting it? I heard someone say that it's because that's where his agent lives, but i dunno if i buy it.

      Basset brought up a good point in his article when he said that Rosenhaus was quoted as saying 10 million in guarnteed money for faneca was a good deal. So if rosenhaus thinks 10 mill is a good deal than i will bet your as$ so does every other agent; than why would the jets pay two times the market value?? The deal could be true, but i would hold off on the assumption that it's for 20 mill guaranteed.
      i heard the same rumors at work today with regards to faneca..i wouldn't mind signing him for that kind of cash- i think he is a player who deserves it. actually i really don't know what pittsburgh is thinking by letting him walk anyway.

      by the way, since everyone on here is talking FA and draft day, how the hell do you actually gain admission into the draft? sounds like a dumb question, but this is the first time ever that i have off that weekend in the last 8 years, and i always wanted to attend? if anyone knows, let me know. thanks.
      "Somewhere in the world Ken O'Brien is laughing."

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      • Originally posted by nvot9 View Post
        The amount of sacks he gets is the least of my worries. I would be happy if our NT was a good passrusher..obviously, but by no means am I going to select our NT based on his passrushing skills or lack of them. That's not the job of the NT at all and quite frankly I don't care about it. If he's a true NT that also happens to be a good passrusher...then great, but otherwise, I don't care. It's funny that that is the argument for his immense potential, because that's exactly my point...I don't want my starting NT whom I traded a top player for, to be known for his high sack count despite his little effort...

        As far as comparing his situation to Randy Moss's, yea it's a similar situation in that a good player is disgruntled and his play is suffering, but otherwise it's pretty different. Moss is world's better than anything Rogers will ever be, Moss is a first ballot HOF, Rogers is lucky to ever even be nominated. Moss discontentment came from a situation directly involving him...he was unhappy with his QB (among other things, but mainly his QB), Rogers is not even necessarily unhappy, he's not demanding a trade, it's the Lions who are shopping him. Moss was traded to the best team in the NFL, Rogers would be going to the 6th worst team in the NFL (draft pick wise). The NT position is perhaps the most crucial position on the entire Jets team let alone their defense, WR is a position in which you can take a gamble on, especially when you've already got 4 other talented WR's. Moss was traded for a 4th rounder, Rogers (if it's what we suspect) will be traded for former ROTY and pro-bowler Jonathan Vilma...
        I'd have to disagree with some of that. When word got out that a deal to get Rogers out of Detroit was imminent, his agent said he had never seen Rogers more excited. He, like most great players, want to be on a winner, and everyone realizes after a few years that Detroit isn't the place. When healthy and motivated, Rogers was the most dominant DT in the league. And had Moss actually not been good this season, it would have been a considerable gamble, especially considering they didn't know how good Welker was at the time... or Stallworth... or Gaffney really, so no, they didn't have four talented WRs already in camp that they knew the full capabilities of. And if we're the 6th worst team in the league, then hell, we can take a chance at any position. It was the Raiders there though, and the Tommy Kelly signing should be proof of how horrible their FO is, but in any case, they were basically getting Moss's giant salary off the roster. With this deal, if it truly was straight up, it's a gamble from both sides and we really don't know how it'll work out. Plus, had Moss stayed in Oakland, he wouldn't have had a season close to the one he just had. It's just about finding the right home for players. Clearly Vilma won't be great in the 3-4, but if he's a stud in Detroit, all the more power to him, but we can't be selling him based on his potential to be great, considering he's coming off the surgery. It's really too bad that happened. Had he not gotten injured, we could be raking in a whole lot more than what we're currently (hypothetically) being offered.
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        • Originally posted by thetedginnshow View Post
          I'd have to disagree with some of that. When word got out that a deal to get Rogers out of Detroit was imminent, his agent said he had never seen Rogers more excited. He, like most great players, want to be on a winner, and everyone realizes after a few years that Detroit isn't the place. When healthy and motivated, Rogers was the most dominant DT in the league. And had Moss actually not been good this season, it would have been a considerable gamble, especially considering they didn't know how good Welker was at the time... or Stallworth... or Gaffney really, so no, they didn't have four talented WRs already in camp that they knew the full capabilities of. And if we're the 6th worst team in the league, then hell, we can take a chance at any position. It was the Raiders there though, and the Tommy Kelly signing should be proof of how horrible their FO is, but in any case, they were basically getting Moss's giant salary off the roster. With this deal, if it truly was straight up, it's a gamble from both sides and we really don't know how it'll work out. Plus, had Moss stayed in Oakland, he wouldn't have had a season close to the one he just had. It's just about finding the right home for players. Clearly Vilma won't be great in the 3-4, but if he's a stud in Detroit, all the more power to him, but we can't be selling him based on his potential to be great, considering he's coming off the surgery. It's really too bad that happened. Had he not gotten injured, we could be raking in a whole lot more than what we're currently (hypothetically) being offered.
          Uhh..? Stallworth had perhaps his worst year of his career with the Pats, he didn't establish himself as a solid WR due to his one year tenure with the Pats, he was already an established deep threat. Jabar Gaffney has been a reliable 3rd receiver his entire career. Wes Welker emerged as a great slot receiver the year before he came to NE, when he was still with the Dolphins, hence them trading away a 2nd rounder for him plus signing him to a 5 year 18 million dollar contract. Plus they had Chad Jackson, who despite not being given the opportunity, was a 2nd rounder who still has much potential as a #2 WR. Combine that all with the fact that they have Tom Brady as their QB, who was already considered the best QB in the NFL even before putting up the impressive numbers he did this year. Obviously Moss wouldn't have had the season he did this year, with Oakland, but put on a dominant team like the Pats and paired with the NFL's best QB, meanwhile only giving up a 4th rounder, in hindsight, there was little risk involved in the trade (although I initially said it was a bad trade), mainly because his poor play was so obviously not due to losing his talent, but because of the situation he was in. And again, regardless of how established their WR's were already, it is much more logical and much easier to gamble on a WR than it is on an NT, the NT is perhaps the most important part of the Jets...WR, well they had 4 other options plus a run game.

          Shaun Rogers however, was and has never been the best DT in the NFL. Albert Haynsworth, Darnell Docket, or Tommie Harris all performed much better this year. Regardless though, he's still a great DT/NT and I wouldn't be trading for him only if he was the BEST, I'd be trading for him if I thought he could perform well period, he wouldn't have to be the best. However, I am extremely skeptical of him being able to consistently perform well, considering he hasn't done that in his entire career, and it became even more evident this year. I agree with you, he's a wonderful talent, it's so apparent (although he's still no where near to his position what Randy Moss is to the WR position), but what's even more apparent is that he is only a wonderful talent when he cares, I don't feel that a team should be forced to motivate it's players to get the most out of them, aside from their million dollar salaries these guys should be motivated to win because of their competitive drive, it shouldn't have to be forced out of them. For this reason, I would welcome Kris Jenkins and all his problems, because his "problems" came with his team's apparent lack of effort and heart...hell yea, that's what I want, I want my team to be pissed off when they or their teammates don't try, who wouldn't?

          Also, just because of Vilma's injury, doesn't mean we have to settle...he's still a tremendous player, and as broadwayjoe has said numerous times, his injury is not one that will likely hinder his future play, he will continue to be a great player and we should be getting every bit of what he is in return...
          Glenn Dorsey will slip...

          Jets will not take McFadden...

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          • I don't want to get into essay-esque debates especially considering none of this may even happen. I will say though that never did I say I wouldn't want Jenkins, and in fact, I said specifically that I'd want Jenkins more. And as for what BroadwayJoe has said about Vilma, he doesn't actually know that for sure. As for the rest, I'll respectfully disagree. We'll just have to wait a couple more hours to see how this all shakes out.
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            • So from all the article i've been reading it seems that the following are looking to be the most likely..as of now of course..and as always, take with numerous grains of salt.


              -Vilma is looking like he's going to be a saint.

              -Jets & Panthers: jenkins is looking like he might be coming to the jets, however drob or vilma wouldn't be included. Most likely a 2nd or 3rd rounder, it appears that the panthers don't want to pay him his million dollar roster bonus and are looking to get rid of him before they have to.

              "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

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              • Originally posted by thetedginnshow View Post
                I don't want to get into essay-esque debates especially considering none of this may even happen. I will say though that never did I say I wouldn't want Jenkins, and in fact, I said specifically that I'd want Jenkins more. And as for what BroadwayJoe has said about Vilma, he doesn't actually know that for sure. As for the rest, I'll respectfully disagree. We'll just have to wait a couple more hours to see how this all shakes out.
                I didn't think of it really as an angry debate, more of just a Jets fan to Jets fan discussion :) Agree to disagree though...

                And Broadway Joe, that's awesome news...I'd trade either pick for Jenkins for two reasons A) we'd likely be getting that pick back in return for Vilma and or or Dewayne assuming they weren't part of the trade for Jenkins and B) Jenkins is far and away a better NT than anyone in the draft period, let alone with our 2nd or 3rd rounder (although I do think Ellis can be very good, I just think Jenkins is already a top established DT who would thrive as an NT).

                That just got me giddy..hopefully it's true.
                Glenn Dorsey will slip...

                Jets will not take McFadden...

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                • Haha. Never said it was angry. I just don't like writing long posts really. lol

                  The prospect of getting Jenkins is very interesting. I'll be disappointed if it's our 2nd rounder, but I'd have to assume (hope) it'd be our third. While there's a strong possibility that Jenkins would be better than any NT we could get in the draft in the 2nd, that isn't the only position we need to address, and a pick as valuable as that one, I'd hope, would be kept, unless we were filling up multiple holes through that process.

                  We'll see though. In a perfect world, we'll give up Jenkins for a third and get a second for Vilma. Haha.
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                  • Originally posted by thetedginnshow View Post
                    Haha. Never said it was angry. I just don't like writing long posts really. lol

                    The prospect of getting Jenkins is very interesting. I'll be disappointed if it's our 2nd rounder, but I'd have to assume (hope) it'd be our third. While there's a strong possibility that Jenkins would be better than any NT we could get in the draft in the 2nd, that isn't the only position we need to address, and a pick as valuable as that one, I'd hope, would be kept, unless we were filling up multiple holes through that process.

                    We'll see though. In a perfect world, we'll give up Jenkins for a third and get a second for Vilma. Haha.
                    Honestly I wouldn't mind the 2nd for Jenkins...yea obviously I'd prefer a 3rd rounder, but a 2nd wouldn't exactly bother me. For starters, I think there's a strong possibility we take Rubin with our second rounder anyways, if Mangini's shown anything, it's that he drafts and reaches for need, he doesn't care about value. Second, I think as much as we definitely have other big needs, NT is our biggest need. I think Mangini was playing up Pouha at the end of the season simply to say that we don't NEED an NT, so no team can try and force us into a trade and weasle us like that, I think it was all strategy, because I dnno what games he was coaching, but as good as he played, Pouha is not good enough to start 16 games and not have the be a position necessary of upgrading. I think Jenkins is, as mentioned, far and away better than any NT we could venture selecting...even if we spent the first overall pick on an NT, still wouldn't get anyone as good as Jenkins, even more to the point, I think Jenkins is likely to be better than any player we'd be selecting in the 2nd round period, let alone any NT. I just think value wise, Jenkins can provide more to this team than any draft pick can, and I don't see it as being a waste of a high pick if NT was a position that needed to be spent on a high pick anyways...
                    Glenn Dorsey will slip...

                    Jets will not take McFadden...

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                    • So then in this situation, we'd wait until the third round to draft our RT? I don't know. I think you have a good chance at getting someone that can adequately fill the hole at that point, but not a solid RT to build upon as a premier bookend to play opposite Ferguson. I mean, opposed to the unknown that is the draft and the Jets potentially not taking the guys I'd want us to take, yeah, I'll take this, but I would feel as though we're getting a little ripped off.
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                      • It seems as the the saints and jets are very close, but the value of vilma seems to be at a 3rd. The saints pick 15th in the 3rd round and some people beleive that the pick could be sent to the panthers for jenkins.

                        I am wondering what's going to happen to drob, but if we can get jenkins i'll already be sold on a solid offseason haha.

                        "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

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                        • So wait we trade a pro bowl LB who hasn't been producing because of the system for a 3rd rounder? That seems a little messed up.
                          Penn State University - Detroit Red Wings - New York Jets - Red Bull New York - Fulham FC

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                          • A second rounder for Jenkins would bother me because I think there are a lot of needs that the Jets are in prime position in the second round to fill. RT, DL, LG, slot WR, OLB. To me, what would be ideal is the Jets 1st for Jenkins and the Panthers 1st.

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                            • Ideally (realistically), for me, it'd be Vilma and our 4th for the Saints' 2nd and Jenkins for our 3rd... and Dewayne Robertson in that trade with the Broncos and Lions for Shaun Rogers... and then Jacob Bell for cheap. Haha.
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                              • Originally posted by TimDris View Post
                                So wait we trade a pro bowl LB who hasn't been producing because of the system for a 3rd rounder? That seems a little messed up.
                                He was a probowl alternate once, has played terribly the last two years and coming knee surgery. There are multiple teams interested in him and if the most we can get is a 3rd than that's what we're going to have to get.

                                If we keep him; he struggles again in our defense, he leaves through free agency and we get nothing. Bare in mind that the compensatory picks aren't 100% and theres a chance we could get nothing if we land some free agents of our own that year.

                                If we land a pick from vilma that we can swing for jenkins or rogers than i am 100% absolutely fine with it. I could care less if it was a 4th round pick as long as it turns out to be vilma for rogers or jenkins straight up.

                                "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

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