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  • Honestly, I don't really want to sign any of those qbs. True all those guys are experienced and some have had some success in the league, but all of them are pretty flawed. I think we are probably better off not waiting any longer on the guys we have. At a certain point, we need to see what our guys have.

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    • Originally posted by josh07039 View Post
      Honestly, I don't really want to sign any of those qbs. True all those guys are experienced and some have had some success in the league, but all of them are pretty flawed. I think we are probably better off not waiting any longer on the guys we have. At a certain point, we need to see what our guys have.
      I do want to see what our guys have, but I don't want to hand it to them either. The flipside of it is that we have a major issue if our guys wouldn't beat out the players on that list. Because if they wouldn't, we're kind of throwing potentially a solid season away.

      Obviously you're not going to hand the veteran the job because we all (and I'm sure the organization) wants the younger guys to start. So by signing a veteran you're kind of hedging your bet so we're not completely screwed at quarterback this season if the younger guys wouldn't beat them out, but in all likelihood one of the younger guys is going to win anyway so maybe it's a waste of money.

      As long as it's cheap I don't think it's a huge, huge issue either way.

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      • Here is what Scott said about the Jets in his latest chat.

        They will be picking in the Top 10 overall next year if they go with Kellen Clemens and Brett Ratliff.
        Just to bring in another perspective.

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        • Originally posted by AlexDown View Post
          Here is what Scott said about the Jets in his latest chat.



          Just to bring in another perspective.
          So who can they go and get in free agency?

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          • Scott is awesome, but to be fair I'm not sure how much weight that carries. He'd be pretty open to us taking a guy like Freeman at 17...and I don't know many Jets fans that think taking Freeman there would be a good idea. It's one man's opinion, but I don't frankly agree with it and it's far too much of a blanket statement for my taste.

            I'm just not sure who we're going to add that's a major upgrade (or upgrade at all) over who we have right now, and any QB that we draft should really sit for a couple years before starting. I think anyone that follows the team would be open to an upgrade if they felt there was one available, but at this point it's unclear who that upgrade would be.

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            • Originally posted by derza222 View Post
              Scott is awesome, but to be fair I'm not sure how much weight that carries. He'd be pretty open to us taking a guy like Freeman at 17...and I don't know many Jets fans that think taking Freeman there would be a good idea. It's one man's opinion, but I don't frankly agree with it and it's far too much of a blanket statement for my taste.
              Well said. I didn't post his opinion as an end all be all, but as another perspective.

              And Crickett, of the guys you have listed, I would love for Byron Leftwich to be brought in to compete for the starting job. If Clemens beats him out, that is awesome and great news for the Jets. If not, hopefully I can feel more confident with a backup who has experience and could help us keep afloat if the starter goes down, instead of, in my opinion, losing the season completely.

              Maybe I just like Marshall QBs though.
              Last edited by AlexDown; 03-08-2009, 02:40 PM.

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              • Byron is really the only QB on that list that I wouldn't mind. Even though he has a slow release, our line is better than Pittsburgh was last year, and he did fine in relief for Big Ben. I want to see him have another chance at a starting job.
                Penn State University - Detroit Red Wings - New York Jets - Red Bull New York - Fulham FC

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                • Originally posted by derza222 View Post
                  Scott is awesome, but to be fair I'm not sure how much weight that carries. He'd be pretty open to us taking a guy like Freeman at 17...and I don't know many Jets fans that think taking Freeman there would be a good idea. It's one man's opinion, but I don't frankly agree with it and it's far too much of a blanket statement for my taste.

                  I'm just not sure who we're going to add that's a major upgrade (or upgrade at all) over who we have right now, and any QB that we draft should really sit for a couple years before starting. I think anyone that follows the team would be open to an upgrade if they felt there was one available, but at this point it's unclear who that upgrade would be.

                  I definitely respect his opinion with consideration of talent evaluation, because he's been spot on since i've been on here. However, as far as team needs and personel he's missed a few times, as others have as well. I distinctly remember he criticizing the jets for moving up and taking keller when all the other receivers like Kelly, Hardy and Sweed were open for the taking...


                  Originally posted by AlexDown View Post
                  Well said. I didn't post his opinion as an end all be all, but as another perspective.

                  And Crickett, of the guys you have listed, I would love for Byron Leftwich to be brought in to compete for the starting job. If Clemens beats him out, that is awesome and great news for the Jets. If not, hopefully I can feel more confident with a backup who has experience and could help us keep afloat if the starter goes down, instead of, in my opinion, losing the season completely.

                  Maybe I just like Marshall QBs though.

                  Gotta love those Marshall QBs :) I wouldn't mind bringing in Leftwich, as long as he can fix his delivery, it's always been too damn elongated. It looked as though he shortened it up a bit during his spot duty with Pitt this year.

                  On the other hand, I also understand those who feel he would stunt the growth of our current QBs. It often takes in-game play in order to assess a player and I just personally wanna ride or die with the guys we currently have.

                  If they don't pan out, good ole Vinny T is only a phone call and quick ride away.

                  "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

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                  • Well having read all of that argument now...

                    Someone knocked Clemens because he couldn't even beat out Pennington. However, Derek Anderson couldn't beat Charlie Frye, yet he turned out to be significantly better. Training camp and the pre-season are poor barometers of what a QB can do because at the end of the day, it's just not the same. Even take Flacco. While I hate him, prior to the season he looked terrible, yet he at the very least was better than Boller and did a fairly admirable job.

                    And it's interesting because it seems as though the main knock on them is that we don't know a lot about what they can do, but really, isn't that a good thing? Looking at all of the QBs available, even considering the ones that could be gotten through trade (excluding Cutler, since I think that's unrealistic), how many of them were that good? How many have really won all that much and could any of them carry a franchise? Because really, I'd say that they'd have to be able to carry a franchise to be considered over the QBs we currently have because if all we're going to do is rely on our rushing attack and defense anyway, you don't need to bring in some high-priced, long-in-the-tooth free agent.

                    As far as what sort of QB we should be looking for...

                    Well, I think one of the biggest deterrents on Favre with us last year was the fact that he lacked mobility. I don't think half of his picks would have happened had he been able to buy himself some time, and it was fairly painful watching him have twenty-five yards of open field in front of him and not be able to pick up five. If we bring in someone, they're going to have to be mobile.

                    Secondly, they need the arm. I don't think anyone would disagree there. You just need a strong arm in New York. It's funny because Favre with the shoulder injury had just about as much pop on his ball as Pennington does.

                    And lastly, they need to bring chemistry and leadership. With Favre, there was talks about him not really being all too close with his teammates, and by the sounds of things, we're really going to emphasize team chemistry, so we'll need to bring in someone that will become a support system for his teammates. At the same time, we need someone that will rally the troops and march them downfield when necessary.

                    So looking at that criteria (JMO of course), of the QBs available, the only ones that mildly pass the first two points are Derek Anderson and Kyle Boller (Leftwich has D-Linemen speed and Garcia is a WCO QB for a reason), and neither comes that close to passing the last one. So to me, that'd mean we'd be better off sticking with our guys, trading for Troy Smith (well, I'm biased, but still), or drafting a guy.

                    And as they've stated, they really don't want to bring in an older QB to actually compete for the starting position, so more than likely they'll be signing a third-stringer a couple of months before the start of the season (unless of course we draft a guy).
                    Ohio State Buckeyes Duke Blue Devils New York Jets St. Louis Cardinals San Jose Sharks Seattle Mariners

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                    • Nice post. The other thing that gets me with the Clemens knocking for not being able to even beat out Pennington is that Pennington actually had a really good season for the Dolphins last year. He's probably not going to win you a Super Bowl but he's also not exactly a slouch at the position either.

                      The thing with free agency and trades is that, as I said, if a guy is available they're available for a reason. Teams don't just let legit quarterbacks go unless they have a surplus at the position, and even then you're generally getting who they think is the worse of the two. There's always a question about guys, even a couple years ago with Brees the Chargers had Rivers and Brees had shoulder questions coming of an injury. Or with Cassell and Brady, Cassell is clearly the lesser of the two guys and has major question marks coming out of that system with that supporting cast. So if you're bringing in somebody there, it's almost like a what the hell lets sign him for kicks and see if he pans our and maybe gives us some competition.

                      So if not free agency it's the draft, and with the guys that are available this year nobody seems to be ready to start this year anyway. I'd be really worried if we drafted Sanchez or Freeman only to have them start year one. So at this point if we draft a guy we're probably going to have to see if Clemens or Ratliff or maybe even Ainge is the answer this year anyway. If we don't and none of our guys are successful maybe it sets us a year back, but on the same token if we do draft a quarterback and he busts it sets us maybe 3 or 4 years back so if we do draft a guy we'd better be damn comfortable that he's going to pan out.

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                      • Lol I would love to try and get Troy Smith. Have him Clemens and Ratliff compete for the job.
                        Penn State University - Detroit Red Wings - New York Jets - Red Bull New York - Fulham FC

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                        • Originally posted by derza222 View Post
                          So if not free agency it's the draft, and with the guys that are available this year nobody seems to be ready to start this year anyway. I'd be really worried if we drafted Sanchez or Freeman only to have them start year one. So at this point if we draft a guy we're probably going to have to see if Clemens or Ratliff or maybe even Ainge is the answer this year anyway. If we don't and none of our guys are successful maybe it sets us a year back, but on the same token if we do draft a quarterback and he busts it sets us maybe 3 or 4 years back so if we do draft a guy we'd better be damn comfortable that he's going to pan out.
                          I think this is the great benefit of being in the mid-range of picks, my favorite spot to be. We can draft a guy with high talent, get a 5 year contract and pay them a very nice salary.

                          If we got a QB at 17 we'd pay them roughly what Flacco got last year, 5 years $30 mill but only $8.75 mill guaranteed. If a player doesn't work out, ~$9 mill isn't gonna really handcuff us like a top 5 pick would. But, I do get your point nevertheless.

                          "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

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                          • Getting a QB in the draft might be helpful 3 years from now because the only QB in the draft that could come in this year and perform at the level Flacco did (which wasn't anything too impressive) is Stafford and we're not getting him. WR is what we need to grab with our first round pick looking at it being our biggest need and WR being one of the best positions in this draft.

                            Clemens may have benefited from playing behind Pennington and Favre the past couple years but no one really knows and the other 2 are even bigger question marks. Why not bring in a Leftwich? His price tag won't be to high, he has been successful as a starter in the past on an offense that wasn't very good and last year he did a very impressive job backing up Big Ben.

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                            • Originally posted by BroadwayJoe10 View Post
                              I think this is the great benefit of being in the mid-range of picks, my favorite spot to be. We can draft a guy with high talent, get a 5 year contract and pay them a very nice salary.

                              If we got a QB at 17 we'd pay them roughly what Flacco got last year, 5 years $30 mill but only $8.75 mill guaranteed. If a player doesn't work out, ~$9 mill isn't gonna really handcuff us like a top 5 pick would. But, I do get your point nevertheless.
                              You make a good point that we'd be paying them significantly less. What I meant was less financial and more on the field. Figure we wait a year or two for them to develop and wait a couple more years to see if they're a legit player. You have to figure a first rounder is going to be given more than a year or two to see whether or not he's a franchise guy. So unless we decide really quickly he's a bust, you're looking at being behind at the QB position simply because you want to find out if your guy from the first round in 2009 is legit.

                              Rotoworld has us interested in Torry Holt, also. Wonder what that means for us drafting a WR (if we get him).
                              Last edited by derza222; 03-09-2009, 01:07 PM.

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                              • Originally posted by derza222 View Post
                                Rotoworld has us interested in Torry Holt, also. Wonder what that means for us drafting a WR (if we get him).
                                does anybody follow St Louis? does torry have any miles left on him?

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