San Francisco 49ers Discussion

[dan77733]

At least Crayton has put up some good numbers as the slot receiver the last few seasons. Is Crayton great? Not even close but he's far from being horrible. I have seen horrible and Crayton is not it. My friend wants DAL to get rid of Williams and keep in the slot with Witten, Austin and Bryant. He hates Williams and is still pissed Jones picked him over T.O.

If it wasnt for the fact that Crayton is 31, I honestly would have traded for him because he's a perfect slot receiver who can actually give you 500 plus yards and at least 5 or so TD's. Put that with Davis, Crabs and Morgan and thats pretty good. Oh well.

[YAYareaRB]

I'm throwing Jones to the dogs not just because he's done nothing but aso because of his contract. If he was making minimum or something then I wouldnt care but at his salary, no ******* way. As for Hill, he's in his last year of his rookie contract and I would much rather see him play to see if he's worth re-signing or letting leave as a UFA in 2011. Unless Jones does awesome in TC, I wouldnt keep him over Hill because of his salary. Thats just stupid epecially when many here complain about the team spending money poorly in the past. Seriously, whats the difference? At least Barlow and Plummer were coming off of good seasons when they received their huge contracts.

Wasn't Jones hurt for half the season? He had an awesome training camp.. when he first came. We were all excited to see what he could do but he got hurt. Let him have a full year before passing him off as over-paid trash.

Plummer was a bad sign because of his injury history and he wasn't even that good when he was healthy. Kevan Barlow was a bad sign because he lacked the it factor, got over 1000 yards once, and Frank Gore was continuing to impress the coaches. Frank Gore was a better RB then and is a better RB now.

[binary]

Jones needs to stay for the #3 WR competition, period. That spot needs to go to someone who flat out wins that job. If Crab or Morgan gets hurt, we need someone worthy to step in.

[dan77733]

Wasn't Jones hurt for half the season? He had an awesome training camp.. when he first came. We were all excited to see what he could do but he got hurt. Let him have a full year before passing him off as over-paid trash.

Plummer was a bad sign because of his injury history and he wasn't even that good when he was healthy. Kevan Barlow was a bad sign because he lacked the it factor, got over 1000 yards once, and Frank Gore was continuing to impress the coaches. Frank Gore was a better RB then and is a better RB now.

I wasnt excited either which way. Its training camp. Not actual games. I just dont want to see us get stuck with contract once a new CBA gets done.

Plummer was a bad signing because of his injury history but Jones wasnt? Jones was injured in TEN too. Not just with us last year. And at least Plummer was coming off a good season in 2001 and wasnt Barlow extended after the 2003 season and before Gore was ever even drafted? Of course, I agree that Gore is better but in Barlow's defense, everyone good around him was gone and we sucked in 2004 and 2005. Hell, in 2004, if there was one bright spot, it was Barlow.

Jones needs to stay for the #3 WR competition, period. That spot needs to go to someone who flat out wins that job. If Crab or Morgan gets hurt, we need someone worthy to step in.

I'll just respond to the last part in which we'll need someone worthy to step in just in case Crabtree or Morgan gets injured -

T.O., T.O., T.O. - There ya go, problem solved.

[YAYareaRB]

I wasnt excited either which way. Its training camp. Not actual games. I just dont want to see us get stuck with contract once a new CBA gets done.

But you just said in the post that I quoted that "Unless Jones does awesome in TC..

So are you recanting what you said about the training camp performance?

[LizardState]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan77733
Crayton is garbage???? WOW!!! If thats true, what does that make Roy Williams?
Originally posted by madirishman: Over-rated, over-drafted, over-hyped, over-paid garbage.

Or Just Another Matt Millen-Overdrafted Top Pick Overrated WR. And for whom Jerry Jones radically overpaid b/c of Lone Star State media pressure to bring on b/c he was a Longhorn All American. And who is on notice to put up or find another team other than Dallas this season now that Dez Bryant is a Cowboy. Maybe nobody is offering anything for Crayton b/c they figure Dallas will release him.

Who on the 9ers is in a Put Up or Shut Up Yr. this season? I'll nominate:

Kentwan Balmer -- With Franklin & Smth drawing dbl & triple teams, the 9ers s/b getting better TFL & sack production from the 3-4 scheme DE opposite Justin Smith. No way has he justified his high pick yet

Alex Smith -- Yes, Smith. He has to own the franchise QB spot this season now that the necessary supporting caste -- Crabtree heading a better WR corps & new blood on the OL -- + a re-oriented shotgun-driven offense from Raye that's designed to emulate Smith's Utah spread & keep him in a better comfort zone are in plc.

Might add Shaun Hill too, the 9ers definitely need a better backup with a better W-L rcd. Both Clements & Spencer are working out privately & didnt participate in the OTA yesterday, & Clements regressed badly last yr & is coming off an injury, so UDFA Florida A&M CB LeRoy Vann, 7th rd. South Carolina St. pick Phillip Adams & former Viking FA Karl Paymah got their chance to shine in drills, apparently nobody could catch anything b/c of the high winds here this wk. Paymah stood out with a Smith pass INT intended for Ginn.

These players listed on the left IMO arent necessarily in a put up or get cut position but are going to be seriously pushed by the same position players to their right & are under a Singletary microscope:

• Joe Staley --> Anthony Davis
• Chilo Rachal --> Mike Iupati
• Glen Coffee ---> Anthony Dixon
• Eric Heitmann --> Cody Wallace

I didnt list Taylor Mays b/c unless he screws the pooch in camp I think he will take the starting SS job.

[dan77733]

But you just said in the post that I quoted that "Unless Jones does awesome in TC..

So are you recanting what you said about the training camp performance?

If he does awesome in TC and pre-season, I would maybe keep him but it also depends on how the other receivers do. If Ginn, Jones and Hill all do the same, Jones is gone. If Jones does better than both by far then I would most likely keep him but quite honestly, even if he does better by far, im still concerned that we'll get screwed over with his contract. Thats my main concern.

[dan77733]

Or Just Another Matt Millen-Overdrafted Top Pick Overrated WR. And for whom Jerry Jones radically overpaid b/c of Lone Star State media pressure to bring on b/c he was a Longhorn All American. And who is on notice to put up or find another team other than Dallas this season now that Dez Bryant is a Cowboy. Maybe nobody is offering anything for Crayton b/c they figure Dallas will release him.

Who on the 9ers is in a Put Up or Shut Up Yr. this season? I'll nominate:

Kentwan Balmer -- With Franklin & Smth drawing dbl & triple teams, the 9ers s/b getting better TFL & sack production from the 3-4 scheme DE opposite Justin Smith. No way has he justified his high pick yet

Alex Smith -- Yes, Smith. He has to own the franchise QB spot this season now that the necessary supporting caste -- Crabtree heading a better WR corps & new blood on the OL -- + a re-oriented shotgun-driven offense from Raye that's designed to emulate Smith's Utah spread & keep him in a better comfort zone are in plc.

Might add Shaun Hill too, the 9ers definitely need a better backup with a better W-L rcd. Both Clements & Spencer are working out privately & didnt participate in the OTA yesterday, & Clements regressed badly last yr & is coming off an injury, so UDFA Florida A&M CB LeRoy Vann, 7th rd. South Carolina St. pick Phillip Adams & former Viking FA Karl Paymah got their chance to shine in drills, apparently nobody could catch anything b/c of the high winds here this wk. Paymah stood out with a Smith pass INT intended for Ginn.

These players listed on the left IMO arent necessarily in a put up or get cut position but are going to be seriously pushed by the same position players to their right & are under a Singletary microscope:

• Joe Staley --> Anthony Davis
• Chilo Rachal --> Mike Iupati
• Glen Coffee ---> Anthony Dixon
• Eric Heitmann --> Cody Wallace

I didnt list Taylor Mays b/c unless he screws the pooch in camp I think he will take the starting SS job.

Yeah, I agree in regards to your response about Williams and comment about Millen. I dont know if Millen drafted MEGATRON but if he did, a least he got that one right. LOL.

Balmer - I personally think that he's crap and im still pissed we passed on FS Kenny Phillips for him but thats just me. I would like to see him become a starter at DE opposite Smith but I dont see that happening. At least he's not who I consider an important part of the team.

Smith - I agree. If he can show that he can be our franchise QB, he'll be re-signed after the season. If not, Nate Davis baby!!!

Hill is in DET. Our backu is David Carr who is an upgrade over Hill because of his arm but I dont see him beating out or even matching Smith. Spencer is our best CB and like a lot of players missed a non-mandatory OTA. No biggie. Clements will be the other starter with Brown as the nickelback. James, Paymah and the rookies will be battling for roster spots.

As for the other players you listed that wil be challenged. Staley is our starting LT and is easily the best OT that we've had since Deese. Davis will be the starting RT and isnt meant to push Staley either way. Staley is SET at LT and shouldnt be moved no matte what.

Iupati will be the stating LG when the season opens in my opinion. Him and Davis were drafted to be starters, not bench players. Rachal and Baas will compete for the RG spot.

Agree about Coffee but at the same time, him and Dixon are pretty much the same. I was hoping for a finesse back but oh well.

Heitmann is our second best OL and Wallace hasnt done a damn thing since he was drafted. Wallace will be a backup at best.

Our OL will be this come week one -

Staley, Iupati, Heitmann, Rachal/Baas, Davis.

[binary]

Coffee is gonna surprise some people, just my prediction. Apparently he is 220 now and even more explosive, and he's always had pretty good straight line speed.

[Madirishman]

Coffee is gonna surprise some people, just my prediction. Apparently he is 220 now and even more explosive, and he's always had pretty good straight line speed.

In Starbuckian, Coffee would be a "Grande" and Dixon would be a "Venti!" LMAO

[phlysac]

The Balmer topic....

I really think people forget how long it takes MOST interior defensive linemen to translate their technique into NFL-calibre play. The transition to 5-Tech in a 3-4 defense is even more difficult. Has he been disappointing? Sure, but he hasn't exactly had alot of opportunity.

Here's a list of all the defensive tackles selected in the top-50 of the last 6 drafts. As you can see, not alot of success.


2004

Tommie Harris - Bears
Vince Wilfork - Patriots
Marcus Tubbs - Seahawks
Igor Olshansky - Chargers
Junior Siavii - Chiefs
Tank Johnson - Bears


2005

Travis Johnson - Texans
Luis Castillo - Chargers
Mike Patterson - Eagles
Shaun Cody - Lions


2006

Haloti Ngata - Ravens
Brodrick Bunkley - Eagles
John McCargo - Bills


2007

Amobi Okoye - Texans
Adam Carriker - Rams
Justin Harrell - Packers
Alan Branch - Cardinals


2008

Glenn Dorsey - Chiefs
Sedrick Ellis - Saints
Kentwan Balmer - 49ers
Trevor Laws - Eagles


2009

B.J. Raji - Packers
Peria Jerry - Falcons
Evander Hood - Steelers
Ron Brace - Patriots


The players in red are no longer with the team that drafted them. Of the seven 3-4 DE's on the list drafted prior to 2008, only two are starting for the team that drafted them (Luis Castillo and Haloti Ngata).

[Goon61]

Is it just me or does Parys Haralson's arms look huge in the pictures taken from OTA's. I think he will easily have another 8 sack season

[dan77733]

The Balmer topic....

I really think people forget how long it takes MOST interior defensive linemen to translate their technique into NFL-calibre play. The transition to 5-Tech in a 3-4 defense is even more difficult. Has he been disappointing? Sure, but he hasn't exactly had alot of opportunity.

Here's a list of all the defensive tackles selected in the top-50 of the last 6 drafts. As you can see, not alot of success.


2004

Tommie Harris - Bears
Vince Wilfork - Patriots
Marcus Tubbs - Seahawks
Igor Olshansky - Chargers
Junior Siavii - Chiefs
Tank Johnson - Bears


2005

Travis Johnson - Texans
Luis Castillo - Chargers
Mike Patterson - Eagles
Shaun Cody - Lions


2006

Haloti Ngata - Ravens
Brodrick Bunkley - Eagles
John McCargo - Bills


2007

Amobi Okoye - Texans
Adam Carriker - Rams
Justin Harrell - Packers
Alan Branch - Cardinals


2008

Glenn Dorsey - Chiefs
Sedrick Ellis - Saints
Kentwan Balmer - 49ers
Trevor Laws - Eagles


2009

B.J. Raji - Packers
Peria Jerry - Falcons
Evander Hood - Steelers
Ron Brace - Patriots


The players in red are no longer with the team that drafted them. Of the seven 3-4 DE's on the list drafted prior to 2008, only two are starting for the team that drafted them (Luis Castillo and Haloti Ngata).

Olshansky was a five year starter in SD and started for DAL last season. Is he great? No but he's a quality starter who does what he has to as a 3-4 DE. Johnson was decent, got into trouble but has seemed to resurrect his career with the Bengals. The other players in Red, I agree with.

As for Balmer, im more upset that we drafted him over Phillips as opposed to him being a bust thus far. However, I honestly dont ever see him as being more than a backup at best but I guess that we'll have to wait and see.

And imagine having Wilfork and Ngata? Oh man!!!

[WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?]

Really good point Phlysac. Franklin does not fall into the draft pick list you put together but I remember a lot of people, including myself, where either looking at him as a fringe NT a year ago or looking via draft or FA for his replacement and look at the year he put together last season. It takes a lot of patience for the position just hope Balmer can stay healthy.

[WhatWouldBillyBajemaDo?]

Is it just me or does Parys Haralson's arms look huge in the pictures taken from OTA's. I think he will easily have another 8 sack season

He looks a lot more cut this off-season.