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  • Originally posted by dan77733 View Post
    Smith may not be great but you cant blame him for how the coaching staff or management has mishandled and misused him since the day he was drafted. Compared to all the UFA's that Brent listed a few pages ago, Smith is easily better. The only potential starting QB that I wouldnt mind SF trading for would be Packers Matt Flynn. Other than him, I would only try to trade for Buccaneers backup Josh Johnson as the third stringer. And I would keep Carr as the veteran backup.
    I'm not blaming him for being put in a bad situation (most quarterbacks that go first overall are though). I am saying that his decision making, terrible mechanics, periods of inaccuracy are his fault. Alex Smith doesn't get off the hook scott free just because of the coaching turmoil that occurred here. People have to realize that it is possible that he's just not a good player plain and simple. For some folks all the piling evidence will never be enough. But whatever. I already have my opinion on the matter.

    "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
    -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
    Originally posted by Borat
    Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

    Comment


    • Everyone has their own opinion Ness. All im saying is that compared to all those free agent options, Smith is the best option whether any of us like him or not.

      With that said, I would still go after Flynn and Johnson.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by dan77733 View Post
        Everyone has their own opinion Ness. All im saying is that compared to all those free agent options, Smith is the best option whether any of us like him or not.

        With that said, I would still go after Flynn and Johnson.
        In your opinion he is. Out of the free agents available I'd still rather have Volek under center at his age. Just as a stop-gap. Even Gradkowski.

        "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
        -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
        Originally posted by Borat
        Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

        Comment


        • I didn't even know Volek was still in the league.
          The Brian Sabean sig is no more. I disagreed with you on so many levels. And then you went out and built a dynasty. I am lame.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ness
            In your opinion he is. Out of the free agents available I'd still rather have Volek under center at his age. Just as a stop-gap. Even Gradkowski.
            Volek??? It's funny that Volek's best season was in 2004, same as McNabb's. LOL. And if you're willing to go with Volek who I think hasnt played since 2004 over Smith, its crystal clear that you despise Smith. It would be funny if Smith does good on another team in 2011. As for Gradkowski, he's played decent at times but I wouldnt go after him either.

            Again, with that being said, I would offer at most a 3rd round draft pick for Flynn and at most a 5th round draft pick for Johnson. Neither one will be franchised in 2012, both will be UFA's and both will never be a starter where they are now and should be cheap to extend.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Ness View Post
              In your opinion he is. Out of the free agents available I'd still rather have Volek under center at his age. Just as a stop-gap. Even Gradkowski.
              Come on man.

              If people are mentioning Volek, why not Jeff Garcia? I say Garcia should at least get a try-out here, just replace Carr with him and it's an automatic upgrade.

              What do you guys think of Robert Quinn? I like his size/strength but I don't know if he's explosive enough. His moves are pretty one dimensional too. Von Miller looks more explosive and quicker, but lacks the size. I really want a pass rusher over a CB if Peterson is off the board.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by binary View Post
                What do you guys think of Robert Quinn? I like his size/strength but I don't know if he's explosive enough. His moves are pretty one dimensional too. Von Miller looks more explosive and quicker, but lacks the size. I really want a pass rusher over a CB if Peterson is off the board.
                I doubt Von Miller is on the board when we pick. I worry about Quinn's explosiveness. With the amount of depth in this draft for 3-4 OLBs, I would imagine that Amukamara, who seems to barely rank below Peterson, is the best pick for us if he's there.

                Any one else feel like we'll target a RB in the later rounds? I am thinking Allen Bradford or other bigger backs like that.
                Last edited by Brent; 02-01-2011, 11:37 AM.

                Pick the Winners Champion 2008 | 2011

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ness View Post
                  That's like saying Joe Montana or Steve Young was garbage because Jerry Rice took a ten yard slant to the house. Oops? The quarterback still has to throw the ball and put his targets in position to make those plays. Let's also cement those guys as frauds because they played in a good system under a good coach.
                  It is not the same thing at all because Montana was great before Rice and Young was great the season when Rice only played one game. Not to mention that the sample size for Kolb is ridiculously small while it is huge for Young and Montana. I also never said that Kolb was a fraud, clearly what I write and what you read are two different things, I said that he hasn't looked any better than Alex despite the fact that he is an a much better situation. That is my point. All this other crap you are writing is way off-topic.

                  Even if you want to calculate all the BS and say Smith has played three years
                  How is that BS? There are 16 games in a season so 50 games is about 3 years, right?

                  You really don't know what an opinion is do you? I just said it. How can it be impossible if I just said it? If I said Warren Moon was terrible and had a ****** career it would still be an opinion. Most may not agree, but it's still an opinion never-the-less. Literally.

                  And for you to act like everyone shares your same opinion as gospel is just ridiculously stupid. Just because someone doesn't agree with it means their opinion isn't an opinion and that yours is factual? In a sport that has so many variables? Really? You're really going to run with that strawman stance? By your logic everyone that says that Alex Smith is garbage/terrible (and there are a lot) is factually wrong just because you say so...in the sport of football...right...
                  Opinions can be wrong, regardless of what you might have been told. If it is my opinion that the sky is purple and the grass is magenta, my opinion is wrong. For something more along opinionated lines; it could be my opinion that the U.S. is the worst country in the world to live in. That would be wrong as well. If you want a football example; it could be my opinion that Tom Brady is a complete product of the system and any QB in his place would be just as good. Also wrong. I don't want to get into a philosophical debate here but what is the difference between facts and opinions, really? Facts are just opinions that the majority of the population accepts. What was a fact hundreds of years ago, say that the Earth is flat, is not a fact today.

                  As for failing to see how you screwed up:

                  You're saying that he's been mediocre to decent...depending on who you ask (which is giving an opinion) yet I can't have an opinion that he's garbage. Only the ones that say he's been mediocre to decent are truth...even though it's an opinion. Mmmkayyy...
                  You can have the opinion that he has been garbage, sure, but that doesn't mean it is a valid opinion. Only people that have not actually watched him over the last years and/or just hate him could actually believe it.

                  As for Palmer, he's not a king certainly...one could even call him garbage, but I just don't think he smells as bad as Smith.
                  So you would be willing to pay significantly more money, and draft picks, for a slight increase in ability? That just seems stupid. Unless, of course, you just hate Smith.

                  Again, what does this have to do with my preference of taking a has-been over a never-was? I'm telling you something I prefer. What in the world are you trying to argue with me about? It's like your trying to change my mind or something LOL.
                  I'm sorry but did I respond to your post first when this debate started two days ago? I could have sworn that you responded to me.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by dan77733 View Post
                    Volek??? It's funny that Volek's best season was in 2004, same as McNabb's. LOL. And if you're willing to go with Volek who I think hasnt played since 2004 over Smith, its crystal clear that you despise Smith. It would be funny if Smith does good on another team in 2011. As for Gradkowski, he's played decent at times but I wouldnt go after him either.

                    Again, with that being said, I would offer at most a 3rd round draft pick for Flynn and at most a 5th round draft pick for Johnson. Neither one will be franchised in 2012, both will be UFA's and both will never be a starter where they are now and should be cheap to extend.
                    Well when you're the backup behind two great quarterbacks (McNair and Rivers) for the majority of your career it's hard to get an opportunity. Volek simply hasn't played a good amount of games. Doesn't mean he's incapable of succeeding.

                    Yes it would be funny if Smith succeeded elsewhere, I don't see it happening though.

                    Originally posted by binary View Post
                    Come on man.

                    If people are mentioning Volek, why not Jeff Garcia? I say Garcia should at least get a try-out here, just replace Carr with him and it's an automatic upgrade.

                    What do you guys think of Robert Quinn? I like his size/strength but I don't know if he's explosive enough. His moves are pretty one dimensional too. Von Miller looks more explosive and quicker, but lacks the size. I really want a pass rusher over a CB if Peterson is off the board.
                    Oh yes Garcia wasn't on a team last season right? Heck I'd take my chances with him over Smith as well. Especially if we're going back to WCO.

                    "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                    -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                    Originally posted by Borat
                    Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
                      It is not the same thing at all because Montana was great before Rice and Young was great the season when Rice only played one game. Not to mention that the sample size for Kolb is ridiculously small while it is huge for Young and Montana. I also never said that Kolb was a fraud, clearly what I write and what you read are two different things, I said that he hasn't looked any better than Alex despite the fact that he is an a much better situation. That is my point. All this other crap you are writing is way off-topic.
                      You were just talking about Kolb throwing short passes to receivers and then the receivers doing the rest of the work and making plays in one of his games. And then I mention Young and Montana doing the same thing and you say it's off-topic? Yeah sure that makes sense. When Montana and Young do it's fine, but when Kolb does it it's an overrated tactic? And Montana and Young being good before Rice has nothing to do with what I was saying. I could have said Mike Wilson or Dwight Clark instead of Rice and it meaning would still be the same. This has nothing to do with Jerry Rice and how he helped those quarterbacks, it has to do with the offense that Montana and Young succeeded in...and that Kolb has had success in.



                      Originally posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
                      How is that BS? There are 16 games in a season so 50 games is about 3 years, right?
                      BS excuses. I should have been more clear. Fact of the matter is Alex Smith has been here for six years and has not gotten it done. Not all his fault, but he takes a good amount of the blame.

                      Originally posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
                      Opinions can be wrong, regardless of what you might have been told. If it is my opinion that the sky is purple and the grass is magenta, my opinion is wrong. For something more along opinionated lines; it could be my opinion that the U.S. is the worst country in the world to live in. That would be wrong as well. If you want a football example; it could be my opinion that Tom Brady is a complete product of the system and any QB in his place would be just as good. Also wrong. I don't want to get into a philosophical debate here but what is the difference between facts and opinions, really? Facts are just opinions that the majority of the population accepts. What was a fact hundreds of years ago, say that the Earth is flat, is not a fact today.
                      The fact of the matter is I'm still entitled to an opinion. So your comment is "no your wrong and that is not my opinion" and to run with it as fact is flat out absurd. Regardless if it's right or wrong (not that Alex Smith being mediocre to decent is factual correct in the first place). This is what you fail to understand. Since we're talking about Alex Smith, there is not a consensus opinion that he is mediocre to decent among the 49ers fanbase. Would you agree? Yes or no?


                      Originally posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
                      You can have the opinion that he has been garbage, sure, but that doesn't mean it is a valid opinion. Only people that have not actually watched him over the last years and/or just hate him could actually believe it.
                      And I would say that I disagree with your last statement, which is an opinion by the way, and that in turn makes your first statement fruitless in regards to what I believe personally.

                      Originally posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
                      So you would be willing to pay significantly more money, and draft picks, for a slight increase in ability? That just seems stupid. Unless, of course, you just hate Smith.
                      I'm just saying I think he's better. He wouldn't be first on my list to bring here.

                      Originally posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
                      I'm sorry but did I respond to your post first when this debate started two days ago? I could have sworn that you responded to me.
                      Go back and check if you aren't sure.

                      "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                      -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                      Originally posted by Borat
                      Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by dan77733 View Post
                        If they dont want to see Davis become Kwame Harris, they should. If Mankins hits the market, they need to make sure that they go after him because a Pro Bowl veteran like him will be able to help Davis A LOT which to me should be the second top priority on offense after QB. We cant afford to see Davis flop and Rachal sucks and is only going to make things worse for him instead of better. Hopefully, Baalke and Harbaugh will see and realize this while watching tape of Davis and Rachal.



                        I wouldnt say the best because Davis still has a way to go but adding a proven veteran like Mankins would help him greatly. I agree about Staley though.



                        If he gets the contract he wants, im pretty sure he would move to RG if its part of the deal.
                        I think replacing Chilo with.....well anybody and having a head coach that is smart enough to actually leave a tight end to block or chip on 3rd down will be enough to help Davis. Like Mankins but no point paying that much money for a RG. Cut Chilo, start Snyder, and draft a guard in round 3 or 4.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ness View Post
                          You were just talking about Kolb throwing short passes to receivers and then the receivers doing the rest of the work and making plays in one of his games. And then I mention Young and Montana doing the same thing and you say it's off-topic? Yeah sure that makes sense. When Montana and Young do it's fine, but when Kolb does it it's an overrated tactic? And Montana and Young being good before Rice has nothing to do with what I was saying. I could have said Mike Wilson or Dwight Clark instead of Rice and it meaning would still be the same. This has nothing to do with Jerry Rice and how he helped those quarterbacks, it has to do with the offense that Montana and Young succeeded in...and that Kolb has had success in.
                          Never said that the Young and Montana comparison was off-topic; once again you clearly don't actually read what I post. I said that the comparison was stupid. I said the rest of what you posted was off-topic.

                          BS excuses. I should have been more clear. Fact of the matter is Alex Smith has been here for six years and has not gotten it done. Not all his fault, but he takes a good amount of the blame.
                          He has been hear for 6 years but he has only started 50 games. That is not an excuse, it is a fact.

                          The fact of the matter is I'm still entitled to an opinion. So your comment is "no your wrong and that is not my opinion" and to run with it as fact is flat out absurd. Regardless if it's right or wrong (not that Alex Smith being mediocre to decent is factual correct in the first place). This is what you fail to understand. Since we're talking about Alex Smith, there is not a consensus opinion that he is mediocre to decent among the 49ers fanbase. Would you agree? Yes or no?
                          Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I did not say they weren't. I did say that opinions can be wrong.

                          And I do think that most people who actually watched him play, or even went back to just look at his numbers, and who don't hate him would say that Alex has been mediocre to decent since 2009.

                          And I would say that I disagree with your last statement, which is an opinion by the way, and that in turn makes your first statement fruitless in regards to what I believe personally.
                          It is not an opinion. Any unbiased observer would rate Smith from mediocre to decent the last two years. Only someone with an irrational dislike of him, like yourself, would say that he has been garbage.

                          I'm just saying I think he's better. He wouldn't be first on my list to bring here.
                          But you said you would rather have him than Smith. That means you would rather pay a lot more for someone who you consider garbage instead of paying a lot less for someone who is basically the same. That makes no sense unless you just don't like Alex Smith.

                          Go back and check if you aren't sure.
                          I did.

                          http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...32490&page=322

                          I responded to the article posted that started all this, you quoted me and began this argument that you see no point in.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Brent View Post
                            I doubt Von Miller is on the board when we pick. I worry about Quinn's explosiveness. With the amount of depth in this draft for 3-4 OLBs, I would imagine that Amukamara, who seems to barely rank below Peterson, is the best pick for us if he's there.

                            Any one else feel like we'll target a RB in the later rounds? I am thinking Allen Bradford or other bigger backs like that.
                            Im the opposite. I think the depth is bad at OLB but good at CB and would prefer Quinn or Miller at 7. Beal, Acho and Reed are the only good OLB prospects left after the 1st. Carter and Moch are ok but raw. There's quite a few good CB's in the 2nd-3rd rounds imo.

                            Yes we need a RB. Locke and Scott looked good at the senior bowl. would take either one in late rounds. Im hoping Vereen runs a bad 40 and drops to the 4th lol.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Milk Man View Post
                              Im the opposite. I think the depth is bad at OLB but good at CB and would prefer Quinn or Miller at 7. Beal, Acho and Reed are the only good OLB prospects left after the 1st. Carter and Moch are ok but raw. There's quite a few good CB's in the 2nd-3rd rounds imo.

                              Yes we need a RB. Locke and Scott looked good at the senior bowl. would take either one in late rounds. Im hoping Vereen runs a bad 40 and drops to the 4th lol.
                              Aldon Smith? He may seem a little big for OLB but when you watch him play he looks like he could play any position, dude is just a beast.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by binary View Post
                                Aldon Smith
                                I'm a fan of him. I think with Brooks Reed, Kerrigan, Acho, and other 3-4 OLB guys available, we should be able to find a good one if we take a CB in round one.

                                This draft looks good for all our needs but QB.

                                Pick the Winners Champion 2008 | 2011

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