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  • #16
    Seattle never had a top 5 cornerback duo. No one ever said they did. They had a top 5 CORNERBACK, but not a top 5 duo. Thats just a case of looking at lists and not looking at all of the text. Seattle was considered to have a top 5 secondary two years ago because of how few passing touchdowns they allowed. Their secondary got exposed this last year. Deny it all you want, but the Seahawks need another CB.

    Here are a couple of the scenarios that will be the only way the Seahawks don't take a CB in the first three rounds.

    1) Leroy Hill walks, and the Seahawks take Crabtree. Thus leading to a draft of:
    1. Crabtree
    2. Rashad Johnson/Louis Delmas/Clint Sintim (or Cushing/Matthews)/a LT/an elite RB
    3. Marcus Freeman/Patrick Chung/etc.

    2) They go out and trade for Lito Sheppard or sign DeAngelo Hall/Nmadi Asomugha.

    There are no OT or RB's that will garner consideration with our 3rd pick, so we go safety in the second and LB in the third, because the depth at LB seems to drop IMO after Freeman.

    If they resign Hill and don't have to worry about LB, they will be able to get a guy like Mike Mickens there. He is a taller guy who should fit in well in the Tampa 2.

    I really don't understand how you can say that Jennings is a good corner...he got benched! Your #2 corner should never get benched if he is as good as you say he is cacksman...should I start saying your on your last straw because you never come up for any other argument than "He's exactly like Trufant at that stage of his career." Jennings isn't the answer, if he was, he would have been starting.

    EDIT: Also, Jennings has been in the league three years and only had one bad year, but oh how bad that year was. Jennings has also never had a good year. He has only ever had average years. Wilson is light-years ahead of Jennings in terms of ball skills and his progression, and a year behind him in experience. Do I think Wilson is the answer? No. However he is a hell of a lot better than Jennings.
    Last edited by summond822; 02-13-2009, 07:27 PM.
    Video games keep me sane

    University of Washington Huskies: 7-6

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Cicero View Post
      Plenty of people on the internet who aren't Hawks fans acknowledge Trufant is a good corner. Just because they don't get to see every one of our games doesn't mean they can't evaluate anyone. I only watched a couple 49'ers games, but I know Mark Roman is horrible.

      Well hey, I don't think CB should be addressed until round 3 at the earliest either. I personally think they should either sign an FA corner or trade a pick for Sheppard. I think CB2 is our 3rd biggest need, behind WR and FS.

      That being said, here is who I would like for our first three picks, assuming we don't send our third to Philly for Lito.

      1. Crabtree
      2. Rashad Johnson
      3. Best CB available
      I have already stated that trading for Lito would be a horrible idea. For some it may be nice to throw ideas around, but there is no chance of it happening. He is also definitely not worth a 3rd right now. In the other thread, a Philly thread came in and said he would be ecstatic if they got a 3rd for Lito. He is just now worth that anymore.

      And no 3rd round pick is going to come in and be a better player than Wilson or Jennings. So why even address it? For depth? We have pretty good depth.

      CB is not that big of an issue, especially for us, but for other teams as well. I read a post by someone and I agree with it. They said there is a reason certain CBs are touted as great certain seasons and then called bums the next. Its mostly based upon luck, pass rush, T.O.P, etc.
      summond822- Seattle will not draft a WR in the first 3 rounds.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by summond822 View Post
        Seattle never had a top 5 cornerback duo. No one ever said they did. They had a top 5 CORNERBACK, but not a top 5 duo. Thats just a case of looking at lists and not looking at all of the text. Seattle was considered to have a top 5 secondary two years ago because of how few passing touchdowns they allowed. Their secondary got exposed this last year. Deny it all you want, but the Seahawks need another CB.

        Here are a couple of the scenarios that will be the only way the Seahawks don't take a CB in the first three rounds.

        1) Leroy Hill walks, and the Seahawks take Crabtree. Thus leading to a draft of:
        1. Crabtree
        2. Rashad Johnson/Louis Delmas/Clint Sintim (or Cushing/Matthews)/a LT/an elite RB
        3. Marcus Freeman/Patrick Chung/etc.

        2) They go out and trade for Lito Sheppard or sign DeAngelo Hall/Nmadi Asomugha.

        There are no OT or RB's that will garner consideration with our 3rd pick, so we go safety in the second and LB in the third, because the depth at LB seems to drop IMO after Freeman.

        If they resign Hill and don't have to worry about LB, they will be able to get a guy like Mike Mickens there. He is a taller guy who should fit in well in the Tampa 2.

        I really don't understand how you can say that Jennings is a good corner...he got benched! Your #2 corner should never get benched if he is as good as you say he is cacksman...should I start saying your on your last straw because you never come up for any other argument than "He's exactly like Trufant at that stage of his career." Jennings isn't the answer, if he was, he would have been starting.

        EDIT: Also, Jennings has been in the league three years and only had one bad year, but oh how bad that year was. Jennings has also never had a good year. He has only ever had average years. Wilson is light-years ahead of Jennings in terms of ball skills and his progression, and a year behind him in experience. Do I think Wilson is the answer? No. However he is a hell of a lot better than Jennings.
        :) I must have really struck a nerve with you. I didnt think I could do that over an internet message board but who knew. Back to the topic:

        Just because someone got benched, doesnt mean they are horrible. McNabb got benched last year. Jennings had a good rookie year, progressed nicely his sophomore season and then had a bad year last year. Coming from you it doesnt surprise me that you want to give up on him because of last year. You also are ready to declare LAwrence Jackson a bust. Did you say the same thing about Mario Williams when he had a horrible rookie season?

        If you really think they will address CB this offseason then lets do a sig bet. That's really the only way to go from here. I say Seattle will not sign or trade for a top CB, or draft one in the first 3 rounds. I am also very confident about this. Why? Because I know Seattle's F.O. isnt stupid and we have MUCH bigger needs than another CB.
        summond822- Seattle will not draft a WR in the first 3 rounds.

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        • #19
          Who is the starter Jennings or Wilson? Why r we focus on Jennings?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by cacksman View Post
            :) I must have really struck a nerve with you. I didnt think I could do that over an internet message board but who knew. Back to the topic:

            Just because someone got benched, doesnt mean they are horrible. McNabb got benched last year. Jennings had a good rookie year, progressed nicely his sophomore season and then had a bad year last year. Coming from you it doesnt surprise me that you want to give up on him because of last year. You also are ready to declare LAwrence Jackson a bust. Did you say the same thing about Mario Williams when he had a horrible rookie season?

            If you really think they will address CB this offseason then lets do a sig bet. That's really the only way to go from here. I say Seattle will not sign or trade for a top CB, or draft one in the first 3 rounds. I am also very confident about this. Why? Because I know Seattle's F.O. isnt stupid and we have MUCH bigger needs than another CB.
            I am willing to give up on Jennings because he has never shown me he is capable of being a starting CB in this league. He has played in the NFL for three season now. He had the job until he proved he couldn't play it, and guess what he does. Loses a job that was his to keep.

            McNabb got benched for the second half of a game. Jennings got benched for the second half of a season. There's a big difference.

            First, McNabb was still the clear-cut best QB on that team by far. Jennings isn't even the second best CB on our team.

            Second, the McNabb benching was a message to McNabb that he had better start playing better. Jennings got benched because he wasn't capable of playing better.

            Jennings had average years. He has never showed the ability to go up and get interceptions. He was just middle of the pack in CB's from his class. He didn't play that well in either year, and he didn't show any progression IMO from his rookie to second year.

            As for giving up on Mario Williams after one season? No. I knew that he would be a great DE in the league because I watched some of the things he was capable of doing on the field, there are few other people who had the type of athletic ability that he did. Michael Johnson might, and that's a big might, have the same type of physical ability, but he doesn't have the motor that Williams did.

            Stop comparing Mario Williams to Lawrence Jackson. Lawrence Jackson isn't even close to Williams in terms of ability or pass rush potential. Jackson is a balanced DE who's main ability is stopping the run. He is a little bigger than our normal DE's and he is nowhere near as good as them at pass rushing. He also takes some plays off. He has a limited repetoire of pass rushing skills and is likely never going to be a good pass rusher in the NFL. In the Tampa 2 you need to have linemen who have the ability to get to the QB.

            Our needs are FS, DL, OLB (unless they resign Leroy Hill), CB, WR, QB, OT in no particular order.

            If I had to rank them, FS, OT, CB, WR are at the top of that list. WR will be taking in one of the first three rounds though, if not Crabtree then likely Brian Robiskie in the third. FS will likely be our second round pick. CB will either be Malcolm Jenkins or whoever the top CB on the board is in the third. Since Ruskell likes to wait (like a dumb ass) to draft his offensive linemen, they are going to miss out on an elite successor to Walter Jones and probably take an OT in the fourth. Which leaves the spot open for the Seahawks to take a CB in one of the first three rounds. Or do you think they take a QB?

            Originally posted by seahawkfanschill View Post
            Who is the starter Jennings or Wilson? Why r we focus on Jennings?
            Because cacksman believes that Jennings is the answer at CB.
            Last edited by summond822; 02-14-2009, 12:24 PM.
            Video games keep me sane

            University of Washington Huskies: 7-6

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            • #21
              Originally posted by summond822 View Post
              Second, the McNabb benching was a message to McNabb that he had better start playing better. Jennings got benched because he wasn't capable of playing better.

              Jennings had average years. He has never showed the ability to go up and get interceptions. He was just middle of the pack in CB's from his class. He didn't play that well in either year, and he didn't show any progression IMO from his rookie to second year.

              As for giving up on Mario Williams after one season? No. I knew that he would be a great DE in the league because I watched some of the things he was capable of doing on the field, there are few other people who had the type of athletic ability that he did. Michael Johnson might, and that's a big might, have the same type of physical ability, but he doesn't have the motor that Williams did.

              Stop comparing Mario Williams to Lawrence Jackson. Lawrence Jackson isn't even close to Williams in terms of ability or pass rush potential. Jackson is a balanced DE who's main ability is stopping the run. He is a little bigger than our normal DE's and he is nowhere near as good as them at pass rushing. He also takes some plays off. He has a limited repetoire of pass rushing skills and is likely never going to be a good pass rusher in the NFL. In the Tampa 2 you need to have linemen who have the ability to get to the QB.

              Our needs are FS, DL, OLB (unless they resign Leroy Hill), CB, WR, QB, OT in no particular order.

              If I had to rank them, FS, OT, CB, WR are at the top of that list. WR will be taking in one of the first three rounds though, if not Crabtree then likely Brian Robiskie in the third. FS will likely be our second round pick. CB will either be Malcolm Jenkins or whoever the top CB on the board is in the third. Since Ruskell likes to wait (like a dumb ass) to draft his offensive linemen, they are going to miss out on an elite successor to Walter Jones and probably take an OT in the fourth. Which leaves the spot open for the Seahawks to take a CB in one of the first three rounds. Or do you think they take a QB?
              Jennings wasnt capable of playing better? Now I know you have no idea what you are talking about. You are saying the way he played last year was the best he was capable of playing. Ok guy.

              Like I said, we will not draft a CB in the 3rd round. Some guy drafted there would not come in and be a better player than Jennings or Wilson, that is why Ruskell wont do it, he is not stupid.

              Sig bet is still on the table, but I like how everytime I bring it up you go running in the other direction.
              summond822- Seattle will not draft a WR in the first 3 rounds.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by cacksman View Post
                I have already stated that trading for Lito would be a horrible idea. For some it may be nice to throw ideas around, but there is no chance of it happening. He is also definitely not worth a 3rd right now. In the other thread, a Philly thread came in and said he would be ecstatic if they got a 3rd for Lito. He is just now worth that anymore.

                And no 3rd round pick is going to come in and be a better player than Wilson or Jennings. So why even address it? For depth? We have pretty good depth.

                CB is not that big of an issue, especially for us, but for other teams as well. I read a post by someone and I agree with it. They said there is a reason certain CBs are touted as great certain seasons and then called bums the next. Its mostly based upon luck, pass rush, T.O.P, etc.
                Wait wait wait.. are you telling me you would rather have Kelly Jennings starting at CB over Lito Sheppard????

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Cicero View Post
                  Wait wait wait.. are you telling me you would rather have Kelly Jennings starting at CB over Lito Sheppard????
                  Yes, but that wasnt even what I was arguing. Trading for Lito would be stupid. He was demoted to 4th string in the playoffs. There is no way he is worth a 3rd at this point.
                  summond822- Seattle will not draft a WR in the first 3 rounds.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by cacksman View Post
                    Yes, but that wasnt even what I was arguing. Trading for Lito would be stupid. He was demoted to 4th string in the playoffs. There is no way he is worth a 3rd at this point.
                    Hahahaha ok you would rather have Kelly Jennings than Lito Sheppard, that's all I needed to know.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cicero View Post
                      Hahahaha ok you would rather have Kelly Jennings than Lito Sheppard, that's all I needed to know.
                      How is it so hard to comprehend? You actually want to trade a 3rd rounder for someone who was a 4th string CB?

                      You can laugh all you want, but Lito Sheppard will not be a starting CB in the league next year, FACT. Kelly Jennings has a good shot.
                      Last edited by cacksman; 02-15-2009, 12:11 AM.
                      summond822- Seattle will not draft a WR in the first 3 rounds.

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                      • #26
                        I'm 100% for Wilson here.

                        He officially won me over in the Jets game when he took it upon himself to ruin their season and tarnish Brett Favre's comeback.

                        The last time a CB took down Favre was Corey Webster in the NFCCG in 07. Since that overtime pick, Webster has developed into one of the top CBs in the league. Here's hoping the same happens for Wilson!
                        "I'm Ko Simpson!"

                        - Ko Simpson

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by gpngc View Post
                          I'm 100% for Wilson here.

                          He officially won me over in the Jets game when he took it upon himself to ruin their season and tarnish Brett Favre's comeback.

                          The last time a CB took down Favre was Corey Webster in the NFCCG in 07. Since that overtime pick, Webster has developed into one of the top CBs in the league. Here's hoping the same happens for Wilson!
                          That's classic.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by gpngc View Post
                            I'm 100% for Wilson here.

                            He officially won me over in the Jets game when he took it upon himself to ruin their season and tarnish Brett Favre's comeback.

                            The last time a CB took down Favre was Corey Webster in the NFCCG in 07. Since that overtime pick, Webster has developed into one of the top CBs in the league. Here's hoping the same happens for Wilson!
                            I chose to forget about that, but your right. He showed me something in that game. Thinking back on it, he also managed to create a couple turn overs in other games as well. If he shows that knack again this year he may even deserve to be called a ballhawk...

                            cacksman: Jennnings will not start next season. He lost his job and unless Trufant or Wilson gets hurt, it won't happen. The front office and coaching staff badly wanted Jennings to succeed, and he failed. If it was just one bad week, then Jennings would have been starting again after a week for him to get his act together. He never regained his starting job and your still blowing his horn. You say I know nothing about football, but your basing your entire argument on a comparison to Trufant that is a huge stretch IMO.

                            A first round pick has to prove they can't play before they are removed from the line-up. Jennings was given two and a half years to show that he was worthy of being the starter and he ended up losing his spot. Face it, Jennings is not the answer.
                            Video games keep me sane

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                            • #29
                              I'm not that big of a Wilson fan, but I'd rather have him starting over Jennings.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by summond822 View Post
                                I chose to forget about that, but your right. He showed me something in that game. Thinking back on it, he also managed to create a couple turn overs in other games as well. If he shows that knack again this year he may even deserve to be called a ballhawk...

                                cacksman: Jennnings will not start next season. He lost his job and unless Trufant or Wilson gets hurt, it won't happen. The front office and coaching staff badly wanted Jennings to succeed, and he failed. If it was just one bad week, then Jennings would have been starting again after a week for him to get his act together. He never regained his starting job and your still blowing his horn. You say I know nothing about football, but your basing your entire argument on a comparison to Trufant that is a huge stretch IMO.

                                A first round pick has to prove they can't play before they are removed from the line-up. Jennings was given two and a half years to show that he was worthy of being the starter and he ended up losing his spot. Face it, Jennings is not the answer.
                                I guess we will see. I'll be here to say I told you so.
                                summond822- Seattle will not draft a WR in the first 3 rounds.

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