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-   -   Mike Martz (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31441)

LookItsAlDavis 03-20-2009 11:53 AM

Mike Martz
 
I found this story earlier, and I found it kind of interesting.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11528497/rss

I don't really follow the guy around much, but I know he's a good offensive mind. Does anyone else agree with me and Lombardi that it's somewhat surprising that this guy doesn't have a job? Coaching the 49er's offensive talent, or lack thereof into the 13th-ranked passing offense has to be worth something. I wouldn't have minded him being hired as a passing-game coordinator for Oakland. Would you want him on your staff?

nobodyinparticular 03-20-2009 12:04 PM

Isn't Martz a fairly prickly character who thinks incredibly highly of himself?

phlysac 03-20-2009 12:13 PM

I don't think you'd easily find a 49er fan who was upset with the passing game he was able to install in San Francisco. Unfortunately, his scheme made the QBs sitting ducks on their 7+ step drops and 20 yard dig routes. In order to better protect against the pass rush, he kept Vernon Davis in to block and continued using 4 WR sets. There were several instances this season where the 49ers were leading and instead of utilizing Frank Gore to help run out the clock he continued passing the ball. Once Coach Singletary became interim, Martz offense was reigned-in and became a more effective, more ball-control style of offense which saw the 49ers win games. According to Singletary, Martz was unwilling to adapt to this style of offense full-time and that is why he was fired.

I believe he is a tremendously talented offensive mind. Unfortunately, I feel that many teams are weary of his style of offense and the tremendous difficulty it has shown to protect a teams QB as well as utilize all of the talent on the field.

Ness 03-20-2009 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular (Post 1557267)
Isn't Martz a fairly prickly character who thinks incredibly highly of himself?

Well I'm not sure exactly, but I do believe there is a consensus that what you said may be partly correct, that his ego may be big or that his persona just doesn't always click the right way with people. The NFL is a business, but it is still important the way you come across to other people. Martz may have burned one too many bridges in this fashion.

Borat 03-20-2009 12:27 PM

Martz should be a college head coach at this point. It's obvious he can't mesh ego-wise with NFL head coaches and some NFL personnel. He needs to take his gimmick offense to college.

FlyingElvis 03-20-2009 12:54 PM

I have never, ever been so irritated or baffled by the play selection & clock management of one single coach in my life - until Martz came along.

And it's not even like I see that many of his games since the Rams, Lions, and 49ers are not exactly top choices for nationally broadcast games.

IDK if it is his ego or something else, but he always seems incapable of utilizing the run game. While I agree the "Run 1st" type mentality is wrong if you have the right personnel, it is still important to run the ball enough to keep the D honest.

He sucks as a playcaller & manager. I would have no problem putting his offensive brilliance to work, but not if he has any say in play selection on Sunday.

jj45 03-20-2009 12:55 PM

He does think highly of himself but he did win some rings but I agree he would do better in college he can be mike leach

bearsfan_51 03-20-2009 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat (Post 1557300)
Martz should be a college head coach at this point. It's obvious he can't mesh ego-wise with NFL head coaches and some NFL personnel. He needs to take his gimmick offense to college.

I don't think his ego would allow him to coach in college. It seems like most NFL people consider college ball simplistic.

I agree that he would do well though.

NY+Giants=NYG 03-20-2009 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyler Ashley (Post 1557246)
I found this story earlier, and I found it kind of interesting.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11528497/rss

I don't really follow the guy around much, but I know he's a good offensive mind. Does anyone else agree with me and Lombardi that it's somewhat surprising that this guy doesn't have a job? Coaching the 49er's offensive talent, or lack thereof into the 13th-ranked passing offense has to be worth something. I wouldn't have minded him being hired as a passing-game coordinator for Oakland. Would you want him on your staff?

I always loved Mike Martz. I know he has his faults but he and Norv Turner really have modernized the Air Croyell system. There must be something more to the story because it's a fraternity in the NFL among coaches. For him to not get picked up really means something. Either he thinks highly of himself, which turns off coaches, or he did something to make a bad name of himself among his peers.

Ness 03-20-2009 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jj45 (Post 1557351)
He does think highly of himself but he did win some rings but I agree he would do better in college he can be mike leach

Mike Martz won one Super Bowl ring as an offensive coordinator.

CC.SD 03-20-2009 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat (Post 1557300)
Martz should be a college head coach at this point. It's obvious he can't mesh ego-wise with NFL head coaches and some NFL personnel. He needs to take his gimmick offense to college.

His gimmick offense won a Super Bowl, and nearly a second one. It's not a gimmick if it's been effective at the absolute highest level.

Calvin & Kevin 03-20-2009 03:35 PM

Here's an easy analogy to understand: Martz is the Jeff George of coaches.

His talents will get your team a lot of passing yards but he will absolutely refuse to make what he does work with what the overall team wants to do. He will stick to his thing at all costs - even at the cost of winning.

Now, HE will say that doing what he does gives the team the best chance to win, but that's only true if the whole team adjusts to everything he wants. And he's too much of a prick to get everyone pulling in his direction enough to get all the things he wants.

CC.SD 03-20-2009 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calvin & Kevin (Post 1557626)
Here's an easy analogy to understand: Martz is the Jeff George of coaches.

His talents will get your team a lot of passing yards but he will absolutely refuse to make what he does work with what the overall team wants to do. He will stick to his thing at all costs - even at the cost of winning.

Now, HE will say that doing what he does gives the team the best chance to win, but that's only true if the whole team adjusts to everything he wants. And he's too much of a prick to get everyone pulling in his direction enough to get all the things he wants.

Lions would have passed on Calvin without Martz's well documented prodding and begging. I get what you're saying, but let's face it a Jeff George comparison is too harsh for someone who has had so much success in the NFL.

Borat 03-20-2009 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC.SD (Post 1557604)
His gimmick offense won a Super Bowl, and nearly a second one. It's not a gimmick if it's been effective at the absolute highest level.

My bad. His offense is conventional. Yeah, not really.

Calvin & Kevin 03-20-2009 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC.SD (Post 1557629)
Lions would have passed on Calvin without Martz's well documented prodding and begging. I get what you're saying, but let's face it a Jeff George comparison is too harsh for someone who has had so much success in the NFL.

That is by no means a sure thing. Millen as we know showed an unhealthy obsession with WR's well before Martz showed up. And anyway, look how even after that, Martz still had problems - saying for instance that the Lions "needed two tackles" because the ones he had were pissed about being put out there play after play to block seven-step-drop, 20 yard square in passing plays with no help, no hot routes and no audibles allowed. (Yes, the tackles also sucked, but that's beside the point)

CC.SD 03-20-2009 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat (Post 1557638)
My bad. His offense is conventional. Yeah, not really.

Hm we may have to find a middle ground. :D

Brent 03-20-2009 04:27 PM

He'd be awful in college. No college QB could keep up with the constant adding of plays every day.

619 03-20-2009 04:30 PM

Some coaches are just not meant for college. Martz is one of them.

CC.SD 03-20-2009 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent (Post 1557715)
He'd be awful in college. No college QB could keep up with the constant adding of plays every day.



You know it'd be awesome.

MarioPalmer 03-20-2009 05:03 PM

Coming from a St.Louis Rams fan, this guy is garbage, he is a horrid judge of talent, a terribly egotistical maniac and he has problems not being the boss of bosses. He hates being told what to do, and it's his way or the highway. The guy is a bum, if he could for one second not be such a dick, and actually just go back to coaching and not worry about all the other BS he would be a great QB coach, actually he'd be a genius QB coach, but he is such a douche that it's impossible for him to be just a coach.

Geo 03-20-2009 05:35 PM

I have to admit, I wonder about Martz as a potential successor to Tom Moore as offensive coordinator for the Colts, should Moore retire soon (supposedly he considered it this offseason but wanted to keep coaching).

Martz would have to tweak his offense a bit, letting Peyton adjust at the line to improve plays. But, even though it was only the Pro Bowl setting and a week of basic offense/defense, I thought Peyton had a good chemisty with fellow Coryell branchee Norv Turner and his offense at the 2008 Pro Bowl.

Martz not pounding the ball isn't the end of the world imo, running the ball is overrated. But he needs an offensive line that can pass protect and a quarterback to deliver the ball quickly, which the Colts do have.

Bucs_Rule 03-20-2009 08:18 PM

Martz doesn't seem like a Colts kind of guy.

Brent 03-20-2009 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo (Post 1557835)
I have to admit, I wonder about Martz as a potential successor to Tom Moore as offensive coordinator for the Colts, should Moore retire soon (supposedly he considered it this offseason but wanted to keep coaching).

Martz would have to tweak his offense a bit, letting Peyton adjust at the line to improve plays. But, even though it was only the Pro Bowl setting and a week of basic offense/defense, I thought Peyton had a good chemisty with fellow Coryell branchee Norv Turner and his offense at the 2008 Pro Bowl.

Martz not pounding the ball isn't the end of the world imo, running the ball is overrated. But he needs an offensive line that can pass protect and a quarterback to deliver the ball quickly, which the Colts do have.

Martz as the Colts OC would be scary. Peyton would love it.

phlysac 03-20-2009 08:54 PM

I don't think Peyton would love it AT ALL. Peyton is used to calling his own plays at the line and audibling ad nauseum. Martz system doesn't allow for audibles. Manning's "happy feet" could really be exposed on deep drops with minimal protection. Dallas Clark would be eliminated as a target in the offense. All things that are against everything the Colts have been best at.

Also, despite both Martz and Turner descending from the Coryell tree, their systems are almost entirely different. Turner's system utilizes a strong running game to accomodate play-action as well as consistent usage of the tight end. Martz rarely uses play-action and the TE in his offense is virtually non-existent.

NY+Giants=NYG 03-20-2009 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac (Post 1558090)
I don't think Peyton would love it AT ALL. Peyton is used to calling his own plays at the line and audibling ad nauseum. Martz system doesn't allow for audibles. Manning's "happy feet" could really be exposed on deep drops with minimal protection. Dallas Clark would be eliminated as a target in the offense. All things that are against everything the Colts have been best at.

Also, despite both Martz and Turner descending from the Coryell tree, their systems are almost entirely different. Turner's system utilizes a strong running game to accomodate play-action as well as consistent usage of the tight end. Martz rarely uses play-action and the TE in his offense is virtually non-existent.


Yeah actually all 3 main Coryell guys have a different twist from Turner to Martz to Al Saunders. Only thing Turner and Martz have in common is the terminology which is something my team used when I coached. I love the use of the terminology for that system. Alot of the passing concepts for the system are the same but utilized in different ways due to formation differences and such.


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