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-   -   Dareus declared ineligible, Bama appeals (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41955)

LizardState 07-22-2010 05:49 PM

Dareus declared ineligible, Bama appeals
 
Tideís Dareus declared ineligible; Alabama appeals
SportingNews staff reports Jul 21, 4:18 pm EDT

Alabama defensive end Marcell Dareus has been declared ineligible by the NCAA, the Tuscaloosa News reports.

Alabama will petition immediately to have Dareusí eligibility reinstated, according to the report. NCAA practice is to declare players ineligible when questions arise about whether they violated NCAA rules.

Dareus is believed to be the only Tide player who attended a party hosted by an agent in Miami, the News reports. Alabama, with the SECís assistance, is investigating whether Dareus paid his own expenses for the trip, and whether the tripís circumstances make it an NCAA violation.

NCAA athletes are not allowed to accept money of anything of value from agents or their representatives.

The NCAA has talked to North Carolina defensive tackle Marvin Austin and South Carolina tight end Weslye Saunders about the party, whose host has not been revealed. Austinís alleged agent involvement is more serious than Dareusí, according to the report.

Itís unknown whether Dareus will be allowed to practice with the Tide while his eligibility status is up in the air, according to the report. Tide receiver Julio Jones and running back Mark Ingram practiced during fall camp last year while eligibility issues unrelated to agent contact were settled, the News notes.

A rising junior, Dareus made a name for himself during last seasonís BCS title game, in which he scored a touchdown and was named defensive MVP. He could be among the top picks in the 2011 NFL draft if he chooses to leave school a year early.

brat316 07-22-2010 05:56 PM

HA-HA.

Why nothing happening for the other 2 guys?

phlysac 07-22-2010 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaarat316 (Post 2238205)
HA-HA.

Why nothing happening for the other 2 guys?

I believe that Austin and Sanders are allowed to have contact with agents because they are 3 years removed from highschool. Of course they cannot receive benefits from them but that is still yet to be determined. If I read the regulations correctly, Dareus is prohibited from ANY contact with agents because of the 3-year rule.

BeerBaron 07-22-2010 06:16 PM

The NCAA is out of date and out of touch with reality. Foolish and ignorant old men who don't know how to construct a reasonable post-season nor do they understand that no matter what they try to do, a free college education simply isn't enough to keep kids these days satisfied. This isn't 197*******5 anymore.

The NCAA is a big ******* joke, as is everything they've done recently. It's time for a lot of chance and new blood in their decision making.

I'm not saying outright pay the kids, but if they're good enough to get marketing deals while in school or something like that, then I say let it be. They're not in this for the free schooling anymore...at least not the ones in the highest levels of the sport...and it's insane to try and force outdated and overly complex rules on the kids who make you Billions (with a ******* B) of dollars every year for basically nothing.

**** you NCAA. Get your heads out of your asses and get with the times.

brat316 07-22-2010 06:25 PM

The thing with kids getting those marketing deals then leads to unfair advantages for bigger schools as if it isn't already unfair. Then they'll go back to the good ole days, where teams didn't have a limit on number of scholarships, leaving the smaller guys with ****.

The bigger the school, the more they are recognized, the better chance of getting paid.

TitanHope 07-22-2010 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron (Post 2238214)
The NCAA is out of date and out of touch with reality. Foolish and ignorant old men who don't know how to construct a reasonable post-season nor do they understand that no matter what they try to do, a free college education simply isn't enough to keep kids these days satisfied. This isn't 197*******5 anymore.

The NCAA is a big ******* joke, as is everything they've done recently. It's time for a lot of chance and new blood in their decision making.

I'm not saying outright pay the kids, but if they're good enough to get marketing deals while in school or something like that, then I say let it be. They're not in this for the free schooling anymore...at least not the ones in the highest levels of the sport...and it's insane to try and force outdated and overly complex rules on the kids who make you Billions (with a ******* B) of dollars every year for basically nothing.

**** you NCAA. Get your heads out of your asses and get with the times.

Those are the rules though BB. It doesn't matter if they're absurd or outdated. They are the rules. And you know Dareus knows what he's allowed and not allowed to do. He broke the rules, and now has to take responsibility. It sucks and maybe Bama can get a lesser punishment for him after an appeal, but we'll see.

I'm not on the "Kids should get more than a free education" bandwagon. As a lot of these schools, a full-ride for 4-years could range as much $80,000 (many places even more - probably most places considering all the coaching and weight training these guys also get free). Plus, in my opinion, these kids are using the resources that collegiate process provides in order to get to the NFL. It's basically a 3-5 year tryout process, and while they're not making money now, these top players are increasing their money making potential exponentially. And like Bahraat said, being able to offer kids marketing deals and other benefits definitely unevens the playing field. Being the star QB at USC, Florida, Texas, etc. definitely opens itself up for better deals than most every other school in the country.

BeerBaron 07-22-2010 07:07 PM

If the NCAA claims that the spirit of these rules is in protecting the "student athletes" who put education first and whatnot...then I'm going to call them hypocrites.

Yes, there absolutely are kids who are great at football AND want the full educational experience...but for most of the kids it seems, especially the stars who are basically just playing for free hoping not to get hurt until they cash in for real, the schooling is a joke. Take the minimum credits and easiest courses you can for 2.5 years, then jump to the NFL.

I recall reading a TMQ article a while back where it basically talked about this exact thing. His suggestion? Make grades count towards BCS standings. If the NCAA still considers these kids "student athletes" first and foremost, then make schooling a part of the damn game.

And as for the money aspect of all this.....even if they are getting the $80,000 you mention in your post TH, the NCAA is raking in Billions with a B riding these kids. I've actually heard before that at Penn State, every single sports program there loses money with the exception of football. Football pays for absolutely everything else and then some.

I'm not even sure where I want to take this.....All I know is that the NCAA is full of idiots and hypocrites, and these rules need to start changing to get with the times. To exactly what? I'm not sure....Allow the kids to reap the rewards of their hard work, because at any moment, one kid who is making a school millions could destroy his knee or his back, or suffer a career-ending blow the head...and suddenly he gets nothing but an education he is probably wasting anyway.

You could say then so be it..."he shouldn't waste that education then" but I have the feeling that most people here have been college students, are college students, or shortly will be college students, and you know damn well they aren't the world's greatest decision makers.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock 07-22-2010 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron (Post 2238271)


I'm not even sure where I want to take this.....All I know is that the NCAA is full of idiots and hypocrites, and these rules need to start changing to get with the times. To exactly what? I'm not sure....Allow the kids to reap the rewards of their hard work, because at any moment, one kid who is making a school millions could destroy his knee or his back, or suffer a career-ending blow the head...and suddenly he gets nothing but an education he is probably wasting anyway.

A friend of a friend of mine worked at the UM football team. Something menial on the sideline not on the coaching staff but he said when Michigan played their bowl game against Florida it was asically a month long vacation to florida. Paying the athletes is one of the worst things they could do. Most of them already find themselves above the law and better than other people already which leads to this type of behavior they are getting caught for now. Also see it developing in the pro's when they start whining about contracts. Its all good till the big guys get taken down. You think saban really would have cared if his guys did not get caught? Don't tailor the system around what works best for these guys. Make them work hard for something instead of pampering them.

FUNBUNCHER 07-22-2010 07:57 PM

Sucks for him.
Is it possible he's still a 1st rounder based strictly on potential without having playing a down of the 2010 season??

Might as well transfer to a D1AA school and get some game reps before the draft.
Sitting for a year at Alabama when he's ready to go pro in 2011 is going to bust a hole in his future bank account.

Dominate D1AA and get PAID.

These guys at the marque programs are too arrogant for their own good sometimes, IMHO.

iowatreat54 07-22-2010 08:28 PM

Ummm 1AA is still NCAA. Pretty sure he'd be suspended from all NCAA levels.

wonderbredd24 07-22-2010 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron (Post 2238271)
If the NCAA claims that the spirit of these rules is in protecting the "student athletes" who put education first and whatnot...then I'm going to call them hypocrites.

Yes, there absolutely are kids who are great at football AND want the full educational experience...but for most of the kids it seems, especially the stars who are basically just playing for free hoping not to get hurt until they cash in for real, the schooling is a joke. Take the minimum credits and easiest courses you can for 2.5 years, then jump to the NFL.

I recall reading a TMQ article a while back where it basically talked about this exact thing. His suggestion? Make grades count towards BCS standings. If the NCAA still considers these kids "student athletes" first and foremost, then make schooling a part of the damn game.

And as for the money aspect of all this.....even if they are getting the $80,000 you mention in your post TH, the NCAA is raking in Billions with a B riding these kids. I've actually heard before that at Penn State, every single sports program there loses money with the exception of football. Football pays for absolutely everything else and then some.

I'm not even sure where I want to take this.....All I know is that the NCAA is full of idiots and hypocrites, and these rules need to start changing to get with the times. To exactly what? I'm not sure....Allow the kids to reap the rewards of their hard work, because at any moment, one kid who is making a school millions could destroy his knee or his back, or suffer a career-ending blow the head...and suddenly he gets nothing but an education he is probably wasting anyway.

You could say then so be it..."he shouldn't waste that education then" but I have the feeling that most people here have been college students, are college students, or shortly will be college students, and you know damn well they aren't the world's greatest decision makers.

Every school has compliance telling these kids what they can and can't do every day of the freaking week.

As far as paying football players goes... if you pay football players, you have to pay every athlete under Title IX, so if you pay them, you are killing non revenue sports because schools won't want to pay them and find it cheaper to axe them to save money. And the vast majority of schools don't make money on football, so if your school doesn't, you're putting football on the chopping block as well making the rich schools even richer.

Sniper 07-22-2010 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowatreat54 (Post 2238345)
Ummm 1AA is still NCAA. Pretty sure he'd be suspended from all NCAA levels.

I love you, especially when you display your amazing common sense.

wonderbredd24 07-22-2010 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowatreat54 (Post 2238345)
Ummm 1AA is still NCAA. Pretty sure he'd be suspended from all NCAA levels.

He'd need to go to the NAIA level, which has like no rules whatsoever

RealityCheck 07-22-2010 08:57 PM

UFL for a year?

-leaves before people complain

wonderbredd24 07-22-2010 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealityCheck (Post 2238377)
UFL for a year?

-leaves before people complain

Although college football would throw a **** fit, I think the UFL should allow 18 year olds to play in their league (assuming they don't already) to give college kids a professional option as opposed to college until they can go into the draft or free agency or whatever.

If kids don't want to go to college, fine, let's give them a professional alternative to go to... if the UFL wants to be that alternative, it would be a huge boost to that league

P-L 07-22-2010 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron (Post 2238271)
Yes, there absolutely are kids who are great at football AND want the full educational experience...but for most of the kids it seems, especially the stars who are basically just playing for free hoping not to get hurt until they cash in for real, the schooling is a joke. Take the minimum credits and easiest courses you can for 2.5 years, then jump to the NFL.

The NCAA are not babysitters. These "kids" are actually adults who are quite capable of making their own decisions and taking responsibility for those decisions. If a player doesn't want to take advantage of the phenomenal educational opportunity, that's up to him.

Quote:

And as for the money aspect of all this.....even if they are getting the $80,000 you mention in your post TH, the NCAA is raking in Billions with a B riding these kids.
If the kids don't like it then they can choose not to play NCAA football. No one is forcing them to. The NCAA has every right to make up it's own rules. If the players don't like them then tough. I absolutely will not feel sorry for a 20-year old kid who is receiving up to $50-$80 thousand dollars per year in benefits. They are all being compensated for their "jobs" far better than any college student I know. My company made $76.7 billion last year and they only pay me $14 per hour. That's how life works sometimes. I'm not crying about it.

Quote:

I've actually heard before that at Penn State, every single sports program there loses money with the exception of football. Football pays for absolutely everything else and then some.
Yes, this is true with most schools. However, this is exactly why paying players would never work. Many team use a majority of their football income just to offset all the losses they take on every other sport. If you started paying football players then you would have to pay everyone, due to the existence of Title IX, and that's in no way practical.

Quote:

You could say then so be it..."he shouldn't waste that education then" but I have the feeling that most people here have been college students, are college students, or shortly will be college students, and you know damn well they aren't the world's greatest decision makers.
So it's the NCAA's fault if the student athletes make poor choices? The NCAA should exist to bail out students? If you get hurt and suffer a career ending injury you remain on scholarship and you continue receiving all that money in benefits. It's not the NCAA's responsibility to protect these players from bad decisions.

wonderbredd24 07-22-2010 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-L (Post 2238390)
The NCAA are not babysitters. These "kids" are actually adults who are quite capable of making their own decisions and taking responsibility for those decisions. If a player doesn't want to take advantage of the phenomenal educational opportunity, that's up to him.

The NCAA provides babysitters in the form of compliance officers. Every campus has them and this is exactly what they are there for and they talk to these kids every day and are available all the time

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-L (Post 2238390)
Yes, this is true with most schools. However, this is exactly why paying players would never work. Many team use a majority of their football income just to offset all the losses they take on every other sport. If you started paying football players then you would have to pay everyone, due to the existence of Title IX, and that's in no way practical.

Very few schools make money on football. Most schools take a loss on football, but you're 100% right about Title IX

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-L (Post 2238390)
So it's the NCAA's fault if the student athletes make poor choices? The NCAA should exist to bail out students? If you get hurt and suffer a career ending injury you remain on scholarship and you continue receiving all that money in benefits. It's not the NCAA's responsibility to protect these players from bad decisions.

And yet, the NCAA tries to protect them from bad decisions... the kids know these lifelines are there and choose not to use them.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock 07-22-2010 09:44 PM

If players got paid it wouldn't take long for one guy to say i should be making more money than this guy. Which will lead to players sitting out if they feel they are not getting paid enough. It could never work in college football where there are a lot more players than the NFL.

dannyz 07-23-2010 12:11 AM

He better get Training Now, Declare for the 2011 NFL Draft and Wait.

soybean 07-23-2010 02:53 AM

So Saban is pretty angry at the Agents for this eh?

where was he to "speak his mind" when USC or other schools got in trouble for this?

I guess if you're only at fault if you F*** with Alabama or the SEC.

I really don't understand some of the coaches mentailities down there (ie. Steve Spurrier complaining about the academic ineligibility rules when one of his players was ruled ineligible for games).

Man AJ Green made a dumb mistake, if anyone even remote saw him walking anywhere near south beach he is f*** for lying.

trkaline 07-23-2010 04:33 AM

I say let them get endorsement deals if someones willing to give it to them, give them money early so character concerns could be diagnosed earlier on before they get to the NFL so you don't draft a "bust" because the kid can't handle having money that young.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock 07-23-2010 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trkaline (Post 2238667)
I say let them get endorsement deals if someones willing to give it to them, give them money early so character concerns could be diagnosed earlier on before they get to the NFL so you don't draft a "bust" because the kid can't handle having money that young.

Ya it will be great when a college kid holds out if he feels he is not making enough money.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock 07-23-2010 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9 (Post 2238695)
well that was a fun non-sequitur that had nothing to do with the original comment. what kind of ******* idiot is going to sit out because he thinks his endorsement deal (which the school would have ****-all to do with) should be bigger?

.

The same idiots that take 100,000 from agents.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock 07-23-2010 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9 (Post 2238700)
again, non-sequitur. are you even capable of staying on topic, or is this you're "oh ****, i'm wrong" defense mechanism?

Do you lack reading comprehension? Did that part always come back with a 0 on standardized tests? If the players started to get paid just like in the pro's somebody will begin to feel they are worth more than someone else. Let's say they decide to give out a stipend. Who gets what? If you break records or win a lot of games do you get more? What about players who walked on vs scholarships? What about the starting qb vs the starting kicker? What if one player is rather poor and the other player is from a wealthy family? Does academic performance come into play? Do the players who have thier jerseys sold get more? Nobody would ever be satisfied.

iowatreat54 07-23-2010 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9 (Post 2238695)
well that was a fun non-sequitur that had nothing to do with the original comment. what kind of ******* idiot is going to sit out because he thinks his endorsement deal (which the school would have ****-all to do with) should be bigger?



that aside, i don't know why people feel like we need to pay these idiots. what, 1% of ncaa football players (let alone the basketball, baseball, women's basketball, whatever) are even going to make the nfl? so now you want to piss away MORE of my tuition money so that CU can pay its kicker (you know, the guy who was something like 2/14 last year and has less chance of making the nfl than the average 3 year old)? ******* brilliant. let me know when we start paying high school valedictorians to go to various universities to do research. let me know when some of the work students did, which led to the nobel prize for carl wieman and eric cornell, gets them paid. that **** brought in far more money for the school than the football program has in its ENTIRE ******* HISTORY.

but like, zomg, three of them will get paid a lot in a couple of years after all of them get a free education and all the free tutoring they need. we should totally start paying all of them thousands of dollars and further cripple an already (mostly) pathetic post-secondary education system.


we now return you to the actual, relevant discussion of why marcell dareus may or may not be an absolute idiot for breaking rules that are very clearly laid out by the ncaa.

You're pretty much my hero for this post. The arguments by 99% of people thinking college athletes should be paid are probably the least thought out and worst rationalized arguments ever created. They think just because the school makes money, that players should be paid. They either ignore, or are just ignorant to the chain reaction this would cause and how it would affect other programs, let alone the entire student body and school as a whole. But yes, let's remain extremely simplistic and argue that college football players should be paid because athletic programs make a bunch of money (which isn't even the case most of the time). But **** it, ignore laws and regulations, screw schools who barely make any money from athletics/lose money, they should have to pay players and lose even more money. It's only fair to those 80 guys out of tens of thousands plus faculty.


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