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-   -   Who feels bad for Norv Turner? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43305)

bigbuc 10-18-2010 05:43 PM

Who feels bad for Norv Turner?
 
Was watching the SD game yesterday and just couldn't stop thinking about how bad I feel for this guy. Just three years ago he beat the Colts at home and almost beat the Pats with a QB that had a torn ACL. Now look at him! He's most likely going to be let go after the season because his GM sucks. AJ Smith has done him in, letting Turner walk in FA, drafting a bust in Buster Davis, not replacing Jamal Williams, trading Cro to the team that beat you the year before, not locking up your pro bowl LT and not signing your number one WR. It's nuts!

Eli Manning was right on the money when he said give me no part of this team. There's a reason why every player that has left is playing better. When you hate going to work and hate your boss you aren't going to be at your best. AJ Smith has done that in SD.

BmoreBlackByrdz 10-18-2010 05:47 PM

A.J Smith has made quite a few questionable moves if you ask me. He believes that the Chargers can just move on from any player (i.e Merriman, Jackson, Williams, Cromartie)

Same arguement can be made for Wade Phillips, Jerry Jones need to take the backseat and let proven and trusted GM run the Cowboys.

Paranoidmoonduck 10-18-2010 05:48 PM

How often do the players interact with AJ Smith? Now how often do they interact with Norv Turner?

If you're correct in your assumption that players hate going to work when they're Chargers, wouldn't that have way more to do with Norv than AJ?

bigbuc 10-18-2010 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck (Post 2340882)
How often do the players interact with AJ Smith? Now how often do they interact with Norv Turner?

If you're correct in your assumption that players hate going to work when they're Chargers, wouldn't that have way more to do with Norv than AJ?

I was saying that mostly about LT, VJax, Merriman and McNeill. Who have all had problems with AJ not Turner.

yourfavestoner 10-18-2010 06:05 PM

When you have the #1 offense and #1 defense in the NFL and are 2-4, your problem is coaching, not talent.

TonyGfortheTD 10-18-2010 06:06 PM

Hell, I don't. He was incredibly lucky to get another Head Coaching spot to begin with and is basically wasting a talented team.

wicket 10-18-2010 06:15 PM

dont like norv --> dont feel bad for him

Brent 10-18-2010 07:01 PM

I don't, he made Alex Smith look good. This guy clearly knows what the **** he's doing.

Jvig43 10-18-2010 07:04 PM

Why isnt the title here "Norv turner....what can be done?".

NY+Giants=NYG 10-18-2010 07:08 PM

No, he is the master mind behind one of the best offensive systems in the NFL. Well he didn't create it, but his version is flat out sick!

gpngc 10-18-2010 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner (Post 2340909)
When you have the #1 offense and #1 defense in the NFL and are 2-4, your problem is coaching, not talent.

Your problem is actually Kasim Osgood.

I don't know guys. This team lost a very close game on the road to pretty solid Rams team - losing two of their best before the fourth quarter.

The OP raises a good point about A.J. Smith - however I'd like to get into it further. I think Smith had the right idea in not replacing Turner and V-Jax given that RB and WR are the easiest positions to fill in the league (and as you can see, their offense hasn't missed much without them). But he's 100% correct about Jamal Williams and Shawne Merriman because you simply cannot replace those types of impact defenders. Williams was HUGE for them when they had a traditionally stingy run defense and we all know how an impact pass rusher can enhance a defense. Merriman they at least tried to replace with English but losing Williams was always one of the greatest blows to this team.

But, anyway, I don't know guys. The entire division lost yesterday and the Bolts are still well within striking distance. They've already played 4 road games. 9-7 is very reasonable and could definitely win the division.

nepg 10-18-2010 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 2340915)
dont like norv --> dont feel bad for him

This. Plus, Norv has just as much to do with their lack of success as anyone.

bigbuc 10-18-2010 07:21 PM

Forgot about Osgood! There's one more pro bowler that he let get away and you can't tell me that there ST unit hasn't suffered because of it.

FUNBUNCHER 10-18-2010 07:22 PM

No HC has done less with more than Norv Turner, except maybe Wade Phillips.

Norval has had SB caliber teams how many years in a row??? He's just not an NFL HC, the type of guy that can elevate talent to get to that next level.

Once the Bolts get a REAL HC, that's going to be an entirely different team come the postseason.

I like Norval the human being when he was in Washington, but he's lacking something as the main guy.

BTW, if he's fired, I bet there's a HUGE chance he returns to Dallas as their OC.

San Diego Chicken 10-18-2010 07:24 PM

I definitely do not feel bad for him. He was the one who hyped up this team so much in the offseason, so the burden falls on him, not A.J. Smith.

Don't get me wrong, A.J. is culpable too because of the dumb games he likes to play in negotiations, but at this point I don't even think it's his call anymore. Dean Spanos could have resolved everything from day one.

But as soon as Turner said "This is one of the best teams we've had" I said, okay, we'll see. We've seen alright. So guess what Norv, it's on you until further notice.

Hurricanes25 10-18-2010 07:24 PM

He's a Head Coach on the NFL. No, I don't feel bad for him.

bigbuc 10-18-2010 07:31 PM

It's crazy that you guys blame Norv. He's missing his Pro Bowl LT. His 1000 yard WR. No back up RB to speak of, just a FB and a 3rd down back.

Floyd has been great! But you can't tell me that there 2nd or 3rd WR are getting it done.

I think that if Norv wasn't the HC they might be 1 and 4.

bigbuc 10-18-2010 07:34 PM

Also I think if he's fired he might end up in SF... With a top 10 rookie QB to groom. Just saying... some things make to much sense.

BigBanger 10-18-2010 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner (Post 2340909)
When you have the #1 offense and #1 defense in the NFL and are 2-4, your problem is coaching, not talent.

Look who they've played. Those are some of the worst and least talented offenses in the NFL. The best offensive team they've seen is the Jaguars. That #1 defense is about as misleading as stats get. Jets, Ravens, Vikings, Steelers, Bears and Giants are much better. When your facing QBs like David Gerrard, Sam Bradford, Max Hall, Matt Hasselbeck, Matt Cassel and Jason Campbell... your defense is going to look much better than they actually are. It just goes to show how disappointing the Chargers have been this year with such an easy schedule.

They should be undefeated or a 1 loss team... at worst. The main problem is special teams. Then they're losing the TO margin, they're getting behind early, they're not running the ball with any consistency, the WR play is just as inconsistent, the offensive line play is inconsistent, the defense doesn't make any plays against terrible QBs... and their special teams is mentally handicapped. They need to fire whoever it is that runs the special teams unit.

Their defense will end up in the 15 to 20 range like usual. Their offense is one dimensional, unless they face a team that can't stop the run, then they look the #1 offense in the NFL. They have one of the best offenses in the NFL, a middle of the road defense and the worst special teams play in the NFL... by far. What does that make for? A 2-4 team that has had very close loses.

This is much more than just Norv Turner's fault.

And did I mention, they have the most pathetic special teams play in recent history?

Turner deserves blame, but all of it? No, this TEAM is not as good as everyone thought. Losing Vincent Jackson does hurt them. You take one of the best WRs away from your team and the consistency and impact of your offense is going to be felt. That goal line stand the Chief had might have been for not if they had Vincent Jackson, or maybe Gates wouldn't have seen 3 defenders jam him at the LOS.


Back to the topic... no, I don't feel bad for him. Why? I just don't. He's not the greatest coach in the world and he has a past of making conservative, stupid decisions on a routine basis, so I usually don't defend him.

Paranoidmoonduck 10-18-2010 07:51 PM

Why is it crazy to blame Norv?

He's had two coaching stints prior to this one that can be described, at best, as purely mediocre (his Washington job actually pretty disastrous). He came in with a spotty head coaching resume to a team that was crazy talented and hasn't done much above and beyond winning regular season games. And I don't buy for a second Charger fans crying foul about talent. As YFS said, the team is gaining the most yardage and surrendering the least in the entire NFL right now (by quite a large margin, I might add). The team isn't lacking some pivotal piece, they're lacking execution.

A lack of execution gets laid at the feet of a head coach. That's just how it goes.

Bucs_Rule 10-18-2010 08:13 PM

Losing Osgood really hurt, but that alone shouldn't cause a disaster. Changes in personnel on special teams can really hurt, even if the guy is just okay as chemistry between the players is important. If in coverage as the returner turns a different direction if player A expects B to go to a certain angle but B expects A to go to that one it can blow up a huge hole.

That would be done on the chalk board, but the doing it on that is totally different then with real action. With limited special team practices having a season together great improves for next.

Their are things a coach can do besides just telling players what they should do. He can send some very athletic starters who aren't stars on it. It would take time away from regular preparation and increase injury risk but if it can stop terrible mistakes it is worth. In the preseason they would have seen some guys miss assignment and if it didn't get fixed Turner should have taken him out.

I don't know if this would work, doing kickoff coverage without tackling and hits. The drill isn't about tackling the returner or hits, it is just about getting assignments right as the returner runs around.

Turner should have seen this problem coming in the preseason. I really doubt the special teams were awesome in the preseason and became horrid in the regular one.

Xenos 10-18-2010 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BmoreBlackByrdz (Post 2340881)
A.J Smith has made quite a few questionable moves if you ask me. He believes that the Chargers can just move on from any player (i.e Merriman, Jackson, Williams, Cromartie)

Same arguement can be made for Wade Phillips, Jerry Jones need to take the backseat and let proven and trusted GM run the Cowboys.

As a guy who follows the team, I disagree with these statements. We would miss Merriman if he could ever get healthy. It's a shame that it ended the way it did, but we couldn't wait for him anymore. In fact, roster changes are more Norv's forte than AJ's during the season. We would miss Williams in 2006, but not this year since Garay has done a good job at the NT position. That and the fact that Williams hasn't really been the same since 2006. We also drafted William's replacement in Cam Thomas. Cromartie just didn't fit our defensive scheme. He was too much of a coward when it came to actually having to tackle anyone, especially a running back. Cason had been doing fine until last week against the Rams.

As for Jackson, let's just say we'll miss Gates more than anything else. Rivers has that uncanny ability to make wide receivers on our team look really good. But, oh boy will I miss Gates this weekend against the Patriots.

Xenos 10-18-2010 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbuc (Post 2340892)
I was saying that mostly about LT, VJax, Merriman and McNeill. Who have all had problems with AJ not Turner.

Those two don't have problems necessarily with the GM just like Revis didn't have a problem with the Jets FO. They just wanted to be paid. McNeill loves AJ now. VJ not so much. Joys of having two DUIs and getting arrested before a playoff game, which led to your QB having to drive you to the game, which led to you deciding to kick the penalty flag for some reason.


LT was unhappy that AJ didn't resign Brees and fired Marty. But more than that he just wasn't happy there anymore. It's why he took less money to play with the Jets.

As for Merriman, it's a bad situation with those two. I think the turning point was when Merriman decided not to get surgery immediately after the AFC Championship game, which led to him being placed on IR after the first game of the 2008 season. AJ was the one who told him to do it, and he didn't listen. It's why he's still injured after all this time. That and the whole off the field issues like the Tila Tequila situation probably did him in with AJ.

descendency 10-19-2010 12:10 AM

Bring in Jim Zorn. That'll teach people to disrespect AJ.

vidae 10-19-2010 12:47 AM

Not even a little bit.


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