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-   -   Helmet to Helmet Hits (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43307)

badgerbacker 10-18-2010 08:18 PM

Helmet to Helmet Hits
 
With the news that the NFL is considering suspending players for helmet to helmet hits, it got me thinking about the topic. I'm all about keeping players safe and don't want to see injuries, but I feel like this is a little extreme. The problem I see is that sometimes it is out of the defender's hands whether or not there is a helmet to helmet collision because it is a pretty common reaction for the offensive player to get low and brace himself for a hit; exposing his head.

I played hockey in high school, and I relate the situation to my coach telling us not to give "sucker passes". The idea is basically not to throw a soft pass ahead of a player which leads him into a charging defenseman who can take his head off. I think the NFL's severe helmet to helmet hit problem stems from this same situation. As the rules change to protect offensive players, it just causes quarterbacks to become more and more comfortable throwing these passes which put receivers in danger.

I obviously know you can't penalize the quarterbacks for making throws, but I really think more responsibility should be given to the teams to protect their own players. Otherwise, we're just going to see defenders playing scared, which is not what I think football is about.

Edit: I could see protecting Quarterbacks who are in the pocket in this situation, since they are basically stationary...

MetSox17 10-18-2010 08:24 PM

It is the defender's fault. Everyone goes out there trying to get the highlight reel hits without caring for the repercussions of their hits.

terribletowel39 10-18-2010 08:40 PM

I think the idea of suspension is dumb. The league already throws out $5,000-$25,000 fines at good solid hits already. That is bogus enough.

Like the OP said, who gets suspended?? The defender for the tackle or the WR for ducking low to brace for impact?? I guarantee it will be the defender, everytime.

I know I am being dramatic but why don't they start fining and penalizing offense players that duck low to brace for impact?? Just because they don't want to get hit in the chest and blown up, they duck low and brace with their head and get concussed?? And then it is the defenders fault??

*Note* I am not saying offensive players should receive any of that.

I am saying helmet to helmet happens in the game of football. Penalize them if you have to with 15 yards. The game is played much too fast to stop and think to yourself, "Oh hey, I'm going to get suspended if I hit this guy coming over the middle. Let me whiff on him because he has his head low or get trucked and he run for a TD. Decisions, decisions."

Dumb.

BLACK_&_YELLOW 10-18-2010 08:51 PM

Dont go across that middle if you dont wanna get decapitated by James Harrison.

steelersfan43 10-18-2010 08:55 PM

Players go low in football. When you get low your body turns more horizontal causing your head to be in front. Helmet to helmet is unavoidable when the ball carrier also goes low. Better helmets is the only way to stop concussions.

Shane P. Hallam 10-18-2010 09:00 PM

NFL can't complain about helmet to helmet hits and trying to protect players/stop injuries if they are going to increase the season to 18 games.

Bucs_Rule 10-18-2010 09:22 PM

Their are some spots where a defender purposely goes for helmet to helmet. Some spots when a receiver goes in the air and the defender can clearly line him up he goes for the helmet with his helmet instead of with his shoulder.

Many other instances it just happens without the defender intending it.

If a player purposely tries to give another player a concussion that shouldn't be allowed.

CJSchneider 10-18-2010 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terribletowel39 (Post 2341066)
...I am saying helmet to helmet happens in the game of football...

Dumb.

This is why we are friends.
When did football stop being a man's sport and start being a sissy-boy's sport? Protect the QB, fine, but let them hit.

BigBanger 10-18-2010 09:41 PM

I just watched Maurice Jones-Drew lower his head and truck Steven Tulloch. Suspension? He led with the crown of his head and hit Tulloch right in the mouth. Maybe the NFL should look into that being illegal.



The DeSean Jackson hit had a lot of talk. Zone coverage... 175 pound reciever running a long crossing route, a soft throw that led him directly into the defender... the defender, Dunta Robinson, leads with his shoulder, hit him in the chin and head area and both players get knocked out... who's fault is that? Realistically? The QBs fault for leading him into a defender. People used to call that hanging a receiver out to dry. Now people blamed the defender. I don't get it. It's not the defenders fault, who did his ******* job. To me, that's a good, hard hit. The crown of his helmet actually hit's Jackson's shoulder pad.

You're DeSean Jackson. You are a tiny little bastard that has had injury concerns since you were in college. Don't run across the ******* middle.


Brandon Meriweather's hit on Todd Heap? Call the penalty. That was helmet-to-helmet, he led with the crown of his head and never even hit him with a shoulder. I have no problem with a flag on that. If he keeps doing that and garners a reputation for doing it, then fine him as well as flag him. Suspending him should be a last resort.


The NFL is going to be going around and suspending players for hard hits.




James Harrison's hits? I don't even know why the hit on Cribbs is getting any kind of attention... maybe because he got hurt? Cribbs is a runner and lowered his head... Harrison did the same thing. It is perfectly legal. The rate the NFL is going... it will be illegal within the next 2 years to have any kind of helmet contact with an opponent. And I can't believe I watch Around the Horn and they ask the question, "Should they play without helmets?" I can't believe I heard that. I **** you not, they asked that question with a straight face. ******* morons.

The hit on the receiver, that will be a fine without question. Why? Pretty simple. The player got injured. Harrison was flying in the air after he knocked him out. And the NFL needs to fill their pocket with money. Thank God there wasn't a flag. There was nothing to flag Harrison about on the play. The receiver knew he was running through a zone and even looked up to turn his head around (he knew he was going to get hit), which is why he dropped the ball (took his eyes off it). Therefore, the receiver was not defenseless and had time to brace himself. Harrison came up and led with his shoulder pad and blew the play up. He's 260 pounds. The receiver is going to feel that hit. Will he be suspended? I highly doubt it, but he will be fined for the completely legal hit. They will say he "launched" himself and therefore, illegal, which will somehow justify their fine. But the NFL is turning into one of the biggest jokes in all of sports.

This play was pretty much the same situation as DeSean Jackson. A receiver running through a zone and a QB hanging him out to dry. The only difference, this receiver had the awareness that he was running through a zone. Jackson had no idea a defender was in the area until he had a shoulder pad in his mouth.

I did see one thing that made me think a suspension should be applied from this past week:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...y-is-not-happy

Look at Tom Brady bitching to the ******* umpire about a no call on a perfectly legal hit. I'm so sick of him turning and yelling at a referee evey time a defender comes with arms reach of him. He should be suspended for at lest 4 games. That is a more horrific act than Big Ben raping 13 girls in 1 week span.

Paranoidmoonduck 10-18-2010 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJSchneider (Post 2341205)
When did football stop being a man's sport and start being a sissy-boy's sport? Protect the QB, fine, but let them hit.

Why protect the QB and not the other players?

Moreover, OP, why would a QB feel comfortable putting his teammate, who he relies upon and works with everyday, in harms way as a result of this rule?

umphrey 10-18-2010 09:53 PM

Everyone on TV is terrified of being labeled "that guy" that says **** it just let them kill each other

General Zod 10-18-2010 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam (Post 2341117)
NFL can't complain about helmet to helmet hits and trying to protect players/stop injuries if they are going to increase the season to 18 games.

Yep. This is one of the first things I thought of.

wordofi 10-18-2010 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam (Post 2341117)
NFL can't complain about helmet to helmet hits and trying to protect players/stop injuries if they are going to increase the season to 18 games.

I agree. However, they make more money with an 18 game season. And the NFL is a business.

Jvig43 10-18-2010 09:58 PM

What happened to everyone having the consensus of football being a huge tough physical sport where hits like we see today would be praised. As far as I'm concerned this all started with the no hitting the WRs after five yards **** Pollian got instated. After that it's just been people bitching about this or that, Brady on my favorite team included. This is football, I understand keeping your players safe, but that why they wear helmets to begin with. I mean offensive players lower their heads all the time and I guarantee that no offensive player will get suspended for it. All these rules have done the last few years have just turned the NFL into an offense favored league. Dont even get me started on the people who complained about the over time rule of who gets the ball first.

PackerLegend 10-18-2010 09:58 PM

I see no problem with suspensions at all. Were talking 20 some year olds who can get paralysed and 1 just did this weekend. The fines these guys get are pocket change that have no effect. Some of these hits are malicious and could be avoided. Some are unintentional but really its not like we see 56764 a game just a few over the season. Footballs a violent game and things happen. Not every helmet to helmet hit deserves a suspension but a few do. Just as long as the NFL doesn't go to crazy with suspensions.

terribletowel39 10-18-2010 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck (Post 2341253)
Why protect the QB and not the other players?

Moreover, OP, why would a QB feel comfortable putting his teammate, who he relies upon and works with everyday, in harms way as a result of this rule?

I'm okay with protecting the QB to a degree, for the reason the OP stated. He is sitting in the pocket, standing tall. I think the rules of protecting the QB should be dialed down a ton as well though.

As soon as the QB leaves the pocket, I think all bets should be off, he is scrambling a.k.a. running and should be allowed to be blasted as such, even when behind the line.

wordofi 10-18-2010 10:02 PM

Nobody can say with a straight face that the hit Brandon Meriweather put on Todd Heap yesterday was accidential. Meriweather should absolutely be suspended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb1CmHk9GK0

wordofi 10-18-2010 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PackerLegend (Post 2341279)
I see no problem with suspensions at all. Were talking 20 some year olds who can get paralysed and 1 just did this weekend. The fines these guys get are pocket change that have no effect. Some of these hits are malicious and could be avoided. Some are unintentional but really its not like we see 56764 a game just a few over the season. Footballs a violent game and things happen. Not every helmet to helmet hit deserves a suspension but a few do. Just as long as the NFL doesn't go to crazy with suspensions.

It's one thing if a helmet to helmet is unavoidable, but it's completelty different when a player like Brandon Meriweather launches himself right into Todd Heap's helmet.

The Great Jonathan Vilma 10-18-2010 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wordofi (Post 2341294)
Nobody can say with a straight face that the hit Brandon Meriweather put on Todd Heap yesterday was accidential. Meriweather should absolutely be suspended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb1CmHk9GK0

Cleaning it up to say to guys 'Look, we are making it less likely you get hurt. Give us more games/money and we will continue to protect you to the extreme.'

While they are at it they will also soon throw in more rules to stop defenses from being able to stop offenses and resort to the CFL plan of defenders needing to be at least 1 yard off the ball at the line of scrimmage...anything for more yards right?

*note this isn't the quote i meant to do....but i'm too lazy to switch it.

wonderbredd24 10-18-2010 10:07 PM

The Cribbs hit wasn't a problem to me...

The Massaquoi hit is everything the supposed rules are trying to stop. Massaquoi was defenseless, Harrison, led with his head, and went helmet to helmet. There was a flag on the play... delay of game on Alex Mack. No call on Harrison.

Considering that people were calling TJ Ward dirty when he led with his shoulder, it's funny that James Harrison is just playing physical football.

You're supposed to see what you hit... Harrison puts his head down and uses it as a weapon when he hits. When he goes and gets himself seriously injured like David Pollack did having his head down going into Reuben Droughns' shoulder, I will not be surprised.

If you don't want to call the rule as written, don't have it on the books.

Paranoidmoonduck 10-18-2010 10:10 PM

Can we just acknowledge for a moment the degree of severity head injuries have historically caused in the NFL? A study the NFL commissioned that was released last year found that the the general occurrence of brain diseases among former NFL players between 30 and 49 was 19 times higher than the national average among men.

I know we have a certain investment in the game, being fans who enjoy big hits and the like, but for us to sit here and condemn a movement by the owners and the league to protect their players from doing serious and irreparable damage to their brains and succumbing to serious memory loss before age 50 is ******* insane and mildly disgusting.

I think it should be all within reason and right now the league is struggling to adequately lessen dangerous hits. It's not perfect right now. But what's happening to these people who we promptly forget about the moment they stop suiting up on Sundays is ******* tragic, and to pretend otherwise is stupid.

I love this sport and I want it to keep being exciting, but I am not against greater safety and neither should you be.

Bucs_Rule 10-18-2010 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terribletowel39 (Post 2341287)
I'm okay with protecting the QB to a degree, for the reason the OP stated. He is sitting in the pocket, standing tall. I think the rules of protecting the QB should be dialed down a ton as well though.

As soon as the QB leaves the pocket, I think all bets should be off, he is scrambling a.k.a. running and should be allowed to be blasted as such, even when behind the line.

The way they tried to do that is bad. Anytime someone touches the QBs helmet is too far. So often a defender just taps the QB and gets the 15 yard penalty.

I am for penalties against purposely going after another players helmet with your helmet, but I would hate it if any helmet to helmet contact became a penalty.

Jvig43 10-18-2010 10:11 PM

I have no problem with Merriweather trying to lay people out, leading with his helmet is stupid I agree, but I want my defenders to get after it like he does.

terribletowel39 10-18-2010 10:14 PM

But this doesn't improve safety. The hits are going to happen anyways. This is just punishing players from what 80%+ of the time happens naturally in the game.

They could put a note out to every player that helmet to helmet hits will get you thrown out of games, fined $100,000, and suspended for the next 5 games and these hits would still happen. It is just a part of the game. It happens. Yes, some of them could be avoided but most of them is just one guy lining up another guy and lowering the load and seeing who comes out the victor.

thenewfeature06 10-18-2010 10:15 PM

Heaps mouthpiece was flying it was great.

Anyway, just like Packerlegend said suspensions is what has to happen. 2-3 games? depending on the severity maybe 1. The fines are useless to dudes that make bajillions of dollars like Merriwether, Harrison and Dunta.


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