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-   -   Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins...what can be done? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43336)

ryno626 10-19-2010 08:08 PM

Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins...what can be done?
 
So neither one of them were moved at the deadline, is there a chance that extensions could be worked out before the end of the season? offseason? or will it be adios in the offseason for them both?

killxswitch 10-19-2010 11:19 PM

VJax isn't going to play for SD again. I still think Mankins could sign.

ElectricEye 10-19-2010 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killxswitch (Post 2343114)
I still think Mankins could sign.

Highly doubt it. He wants Jahri Evans money, and no guard is worth that. He's also burned a lot of bridges with the Kraft's and within the organization. His career in New England is pretty much over, which is a shame.

RaiderNation 10-19-2010 11:32 PM

Send Mankins to Oakland

vikes_28 10-19-2010 11:35 PM

They'll be free agents. I hope Mankins figures out that no one is going to pay him that much. I'm sure though, some dumb team that thinks Mankins is the answer will give him a massive contract.

Chargers kind of shot themselves in the foot with the VJax thing. The Chargers could have traded him and gotten something out of it, but they couldn't agree on a deal so they didn't get him moved. Now he's going to walk in free agency and they won't get anything of relevance.

Jughead10 10-19-2010 11:50 PM

Don't they both have to sign a tender soon, or they won't be eligible for FA after the season?

brat316 10-19-2010 11:55 PM

They already did.

BeerBaron 10-19-2010 11:57 PM

I read rumors today that the Bears had offered Tommie Harris and a 4th for Mankins, but didn't want to offer more since it would cost so much to resign him to a long term deal. I was kind of pissed....he'd be worth it if it meant keeping our franchise QB alive longer.

Word is that both guys are going to report after they've been asked to by the NFLPA so they'll get an accrued year towards free agency. We'll see how that goes....

I'd even be willing to say that both might get franchised then traded so their current teams can get something for them. It might be risky but it would probably be better than letting them walk for nothing.

boknows34 10-20-2010 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron (Post 2343163)
Word is that both guys are going to report after they've been asked to by the NFLPA so they'll get an accrued year towards free agency. We'll see how that goes....


That's what I've been hearing too. Both Chris Mortensen and Jason La Canfora have reported they believe Jackson and Mankins will report in time for the final six games in order to guarantee they accrue another season toward unrestricted free agency.

bantx 10-20-2010 12:48 AM

i can only hope by some miracle vjax will realize how stupid he was and sign and continue to play with us. Which I still think he might do :D

descendency 10-20-2010 12:52 AM

Edit: Both players WILL sign (i explain why below). They may or may not play though. That is up to the team. The teams could royally **** them by leaving them inactive. If the new CBA stuff takes a year, the players could have sat out 2 years of time. That will hurt quite badly.

Here is the summary that everyone who has any questions about this situation should read:

1. Both players are Restricted free agents due to the fact that we are in an uncapped year. The uncapped part matters because the current CBA (which will expire at the end of the football year) says it goes from 4 to 6 years of service required. (note the term 'years of service')

2. In order to gain 'years of service', you must play at least 6 games. So Logan Mankins must be on the team by week 11 and VJ some date earlier (due to his suspension) to get that year of service.

3. Getting that year of service means that under no circumstance they be RFAs again under the current CBA (though it could change in the new one, but the NFLPA won't let that go higher). They can however be franchised. (which would send them from irate to a new level of infinite hatred for said team)

4. If they don't play and the new CBA requires no more than 5 years of service for UFA, then they are free baring being tagged.

5. If the new CBA requires 6 years, they need to play this year to be UFA. If it requires more, the NFLPA got raped and the two players must again go through this until they get traded or released.

----

If you have any questions, I am 99% sure I can answer them. I've read so much on this stuff due to being a patriots fan and being curious about Mankins.

---

@BeerBaron

The fact that the Bears didn't offer more is either 1 of two things. Either JA doesn't want to mortgage more of the bears future on another player OR the owner doesn't trust the GM/Coach and still is considering firing one or both of them and don't want them making decisions that will affect the new administration.

The fact that they could offer anything is a good sign though (if you are a JA/Lovie fan).

BeerBaron 10-20-2010 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency (Post 2343194)
@BeerBaron

The fact that the Bears didn't offer more is either 1 of two things. Either JA doesn't want to mortgage more of the bears future on another player OR the owner doesn't trust the GM/Coach and still is considering firing one or both of them and don't want them making decisions that will affect the new administration.

The fact that they could offer anything is a good sign though (if you are a JA/Lovie fan).

If Mankins was looking for a more reasonable deal, I think the Bears could have gotten it done. I don't think what scared them off was what they had to trade to get him, but it did scare them to pay that price AND have to pay him enough to make him the league's top paid guard.

I would gladly have given up to a 2nd and Harris if it were me. Mankins is a top 5 guard still in the prime of his career...the Bears just weren't willing to give up that much in trade compensation to then have to give up such a huge contract.

ElectricEye 10-20-2010 08:23 AM

We would likely just take the second and let you keep Harris. Maybe pick up a depth defensive back(Don't know your roster well) and call it a deal. It is near impossible to trade Mankins at this point though because of the money involved.

BeerBaron 10-20-2010 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricEye (Post 2343281)
We would likely just take the second and let you keep Harris. Maybe pick up a depth defensive back(Don't know your roster well) and call it a deal. It is near impossible to trade Mankins at this point though because of the money involved.

I think Harris was included to get rid of his salary for us. He's not making nearly what Mankings wants, but it's more than a rotational tackle should really be getting and he'd instantly become your 2nd most talented d-lineman. So it'd be to clear his salary and then the pick still.

Don Vito 10-20-2010 02:08 PM

Mankins ain't playing for the Pats again and that is as close to a guarantee as it gets, he fell out of favor here. Sucks because he is one of the best interior OL in the NFL and that is where we are getting killed right now, hopefully we get a good pick for him.

Babylon 10-20-2010 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricEye (Post 2343281)
We would likely just take the second and let you keep Harris. Maybe pick up a depth defensive back(Don't know your roster well) and call it a deal. It is near impossible to trade Mankins at this point though because of the money involved.

That would seem a good deal for both teams, the Bears O-line is borderline atrocius and Belichick wants the whole draft to himself.

Xenos 10-20-2010 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency (Post 2343194)
Edit: Both players WILL sign (i explain why below). They may or may not play though. That is up to the team. The teams could royally **** them by leaving them inactive. If the new CBA stuff takes a year, the players could have sat out 2 years of time. That will hurt quite badly.

Here is the summary that everyone who has any questions about this situation should read:

1. Both players are Restricted free agents due to the fact that we are in an uncapped year. The uncapped part matters because the current CBA (which will expire at the end of the football year) says it goes from 4 to 6 years of service required. (note the term 'years of service')

2. In order to gain 'years of service', you must play at least 6 games. So Logan Mankins must be on the team by week 11 and VJ some date earlier (due to his suspension) to get that year of service.

3. Getting that year of service means that under no circumstance they be RFAs again under the current CBA (though it could change in the new one, but the NFLPA won't let that go higher). They can however be franchised. (which would send them from irate to a new level of infinite hatred for said team)

4. If they don't play and the new CBA requires no more than 5 years of service for UFA, then they are free baring being tagged.

5. If the new CBA requires 6 years, they need to play this year to be UFA. If it requires more, the NFLPA got raped and the two players must again go through this until they get traded or released.

----

If you have any questions, I am 99% sure I can answer them. I've read so much on this stuff due to being a patriots fan and being curious about Mankins.

---

@BeerBaron

The fact that the Bears didn't offer more is either 1 of two things. Either JA doesn't want to mortgage more of the bears future on another player OR the owner doesn't trust the GM/Coach and still is considering firing one or both of them and don't want them making decisions that will affect the new administration.

The fact that they could offer anything is a good sign though (if you are a JA/Lovie fan).

Slight technicality on the last two parts. Even if the new CBA does switch back to a 5 year system, those two might not be free at all. It depends on when the new CBA is agreed upon. If it happens right before the 2011 season, it won't take affect until the 2012 season.

Second, let's say that the CBA is agreed upon before the March deadline, there is still another possibility that Mankins and VJ are RFA again if they don't report and play the last six games. There is specific clause that Florio and others have brought up where a RFA that sits out the entire season will return to being a RFA again the following season. Of course, it depends on whether the Union will let this happen, but I think that's more likely to happen since the owners are not going to let two holdouts dictate the terms of their new CBA.

bigbuc 10-20-2010 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikes_28 (Post 2343137)
They'll be free agents. I hope Mankins figures out that no one is going to pay him that much. I'm sure though, some dumb team that thinks Mankins is the answer will give him a massive contract.


When he hits the open market he'll become the highest paid OG in the league. Just look at Leonard Davis.

descendency 10-21-2010 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenos (Post 2344226)
Slight technicality on the last two parts. Even if the new CBA does switch back to a 5 year system, those two might not be free at all. It depends on when the new CBA is agreed upon. If it happens right before the 2011 season, it won't take affect until the 2012 season.

Second, let's say that the CBA is agreed upon before the March deadline, there is still another possibility that Mankins and VJ are RFA again if they don't report and play the last six games. There is specific clause that Florio and others have brought up where a RFA that sits out the entire season will return to being a RFA again the following season. Of course, it depends on whether the Union will let this happen, but I think that's more likely to happen since the owners are not going to let two holdouts dictate the terms of their new CBA.

Your first point is correct. They could create a new deal that does not impact these players at all or does not impact them for another year.

The second point was something I was trying to illustrate by saying that they must sign before a certain date (Mankins is week 11, VJ is a lot sooner because of his suspension - forget the exact week).

But yea. The only way those guys get free is they get the teams permission to seek a trade with the knowledge they will be franchised. I would bet my bank on at least one of them being franchised (non-exclusive probably) if they don't sign a long term contract. Both are worth too much. A second round pick for each, minimum.

CC.SD 10-21-2010 04:31 PM

Jackson is reporting Oct. 29th apparently.

umphrey 10-21-2010 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC.SD (Post 2344879)
Jackson is reporting Oct. 29th apparently.

I heard week 12, no link or anything though, but that would make sense with the 6 weeks to gain UFA status

A Perfect Score 10-21-2010 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vikes_28 (Post 2343137)
They'll be free agents. I hope Mankins figures out that no one is going to pay him that much. I'm sure though, some dumb team that thinks Mankins is the answer will give him a massive contract.

Chargers kind of shot themselves in the foot with the VJax thing. The Chargers could have traded him and gotten something out of it, but they couldn't agree on a deal so they didn't get him moved. Now he's going to walk in free agency and they won't get anything of relevance.

Mankins is one of the premier interior offensive linemen in the league. Just because the absurdly cheap Pats aren't willing to pay him doesn't mean another team won't. That team certainly won't be dumb either. If Nick Mangold is worth 55 million and Jahri Evans is worth 49, then I would imagine Mankins number would fall somewhere in between those two. Dont forget, Eric Steinbach, Steve Hutchinson and Derrick Dockery all signed 49 million dollar deals as well. People are acting like this is the first time a guard will get paid serious money...it isnt. And alot of those guys go on to help solidify offensive lines. Personally, I think someone is going to sign Mankins and he will go on to be a hell of a player for them for the remainder of his career. It isnt stupid at all.

Vox Populi 10-21-2010 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score (Post 2344888)
Mankins is one of the premier interior offensive linemen in the league. Just because the absurdly cheap Pats aren't willing to pay him doesn't mean another team won't. That team certainly won't be dumb either. If Nick Mangold is worth 55 million and Jahri Evans is worth 49, then I would imagine Mankins number would fall somewhere in between those two. Dont forget, Eric Steinbach, Steve Hutchinson and Derrick Dockery all signed 49 million dollar deals as well. People are acting like this is the first time a guard will get paid serious money...it isnt. And alot of those guys go on to help solidify offensive lines. Personally, I think someone is going to sign Mankins and he will go on to be a hell of a player for them for the remainder of his career. It isnt stupid at all.

My favourite part was where the Vikings fan was posting that...

Jvig43 10-21-2010 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score (Post 2344888)
Mankins is one of the premier interior offensive linemen in the league. Just because the absurdly cheap Pats aren't willing to pay him doesn't mean another team won't. That team certainly won't be dumb either. If Nick Mangold is worth 55 million and Jahri Evans is worth 49, then I would imagine Mankins number would fall somewhere in between those two. Dont forget, Eric Steinbach, Steve Hutchinson and Derrick Dockery all signed 49 million dollar deals as well. People are acting like this is the first time a guard will get paid serious money...it isnt. And alot of those guys go on to help solidify offensive lines. Personally, I think someone is going to sign Mankins and he will go on to be a hell of a player for them for the remainder of his career. It isnt stupid at all.

We offered him about 50 mill five years and he refused it, so Idk what hes looking for. But everything else you said was spot on.


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