Draft Countdown Forums

Draft Countdown Forums (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/index.php)
-   NFC East Division Forum (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=92)
-   -   Best NFC East Pass Rusher (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43461)

DiG 10-26-2010 01:16 PM

Best NFC East Pass Rusher
 
Weve got a "best of" for all the other positions...why not pass rusher! i was just looking/thinking about how dominant the nfc east was at wr and i got to thinking that as good as the nfc east was at wr, i think its even more impressive at rushing the passer. lets hear it!


NY+Giants=NYG 10-26-2010 01:21 PM

I'd say Osi, but I like Tuck as the most complete DE in the NFC EAST. I'd put Cole next after Tuck. Ware is a sick pass rusher, but he plays a different position in a different system. So it's hard to compare. The way Osi is playing he can be DPOY this season.

DiG 10-26-2010 01:23 PM

thats why i called the thread best pass rusher and not best defensive end.

SeanTaylorRIP 10-26-2010 01:28 PM

Best pass rusher that's easy, Ware then Orakpo. The division does have good interior pass rushers as well.

Todd Bertuzzi 10-26-2010 03:36 PM

I don't think you can say it's easily one guy. They're all great and you can't go wrong with any one of them. Cole gets criminally underrated though. Guy led the division in sacks last year and was one of the tops in the league. He's also one of the most consistent pass rushers in the league and I just don't think he gets enough credit. Usually up there as far as tackles are concerned too because he's great against the run as well.

D-Unit 10-26-2010 04:48 PM

World War IV has officially begun. lol.

Hurricanes25 10-26-2010 04:55 PM

I personally think Ware is the best but you can make an arguement for any of these guys.

Rosebud 10-26-2010 06:00 PM

Ware is my #1 although I do think that a healthy Tuck can make as big of an impact. Osi's a great speed rusher off of the edge, and his sack/fumble ability is crazy, but he's not quite Demarcus Ware. Cole, Orakpo and Kiwi are certainly up there, Kiwi was by far our best pass rusher before his neck decided to bulge and knock him out for the season and with JPP, Graham and Spencer there's still a lot of young talent coming in to reinforce the older guys...You know Osi's probably making the biggest impact right now because his sack/fumbles have been huge and it's starting to become scary how well he strips the ball. I do think that Ware at his best is the best in this division but right now he's not as superhuman as he can be and Osi's playing just as well.

So, purely on sacking the QB I think Ware's the best, although Osi's making the biggest impact as a pass rusher because of how insanely well he's stripping the ball this season.

xxxxxxxx 10-26-2010 06:20 PM

Why is this even a poll?..

Rosebud 10-26-2010 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDCB14 (Post 2353470)
Why is this even a poll?..

Because Ware isn't Super Saiyan 4 this year, so the other really talented pass rushers in this division are playing on a comparable if not higher level right now?

Rosebud 10-26-2010 06:27 PM

On pure talent Ware's the best, but this year I really think that it's not nearly that easy to say. Osi and Tuck do a lot to draw hype and attention away from each other, but Ware gets a lot of help from having Ratliff inside and Spencer on the otherside so the front seven argument isn't as disparate it's been in other years when Osi was healthy.

Talent wise the biggest difference is the secondary help Osi's been getting as our Secondary is playing very well this year.

Speaking of Ratliff why isn't he or Fat Albert on the list? Both of those two are extremely valuable to a team's pass rush.

xxxxxxxx 10-26-2010 06:30 PM

Just because I love dragonball z, you get plus rep.

First off, Ware has 8 sacks. Second, just because he's been slacking a bit doesn't make the other players better lol.

This isn't even an argument. Is matt moore a pro-bowl Qb after this past sunday? Listen to that arguement.

Others are having good seasons, sure, but Ware is on a different level than all. Osi can't hold his jock.

Rosebud 10-26-2010 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDCB14 (Post 2353485)
Just because I love dragonball z, you get plus rep.

First off, Ware has 8 sacks. Second, just because he's been slacking a bit doesn't make the other players better lol.

This isn't even an argument. Is matt moore a pro-bowl Qb after this past sunday? Listen to that arguement.

Others are having good seasons, sure, but Ware is on a different level than all. Osi can't hold his jock.

Nah dude, not this year, Osi's making just as big of an impact this year. He's also around 8 sacks and most of them being strip sacks. Ware's more talented, but if we're talking purely about the impact they're making this year, not the impact they could make if they were playing at their best, but just what they have been doing, Osi's right there and some of the other guys are really close. It's kinda ridiculous how many fumbles Osi is forcing with his strip-sacks.

Matt Moore is a bad analogy because he doesn't have a resume like Osi's nor has proven his talent the way Osi has. Plus it's just one game, Osi has had a lot of great seasons and was the best DE in the NFL for a year or two, that year where he manhandled Walter Jones when Jones was killing everybody, and has been beasting all season. If both play at exactly the same level for the rest of the season, which is certainly possible, I think it'd be hard to argue that Ware was clearly the best this season.

Edit: Just checked the stats and of Osi's 8 sacks, 7 were forced fumbles, that's pretty insane and a FF/Game pace.

bigbluedefense 10-26-2010 06:43 PM

Sorry guys, but it's Ware and by a large margin. I don't even see how it's debatable.

Ware is going to be a first ballot HOFer. We can't say the same about any of the rest of these guys.

Rosebud 10-26-2010 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense (Post 2353500)
Sorry guys, but it's Ware and by a large margin. I don't even see how it's debatable.

Ware is going to be a first ballot HOFer. We can't say the same about any of the rest of these guys.

Well none of that's debatable but it's certainly debatable whether or not he's having the biggest impact so far in this season.

bigbluedefense 10-26-2010 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud (Post 2353508)
Well none of that's debatable but it's certainly debatable whether or not he's having the biggest impact so far in this season.

He has 8 sacks, tied for 2nd in the league. That's pretty darn impactful.


And he doesn't have Tuck, JPP, and Kiwi (at one point) along the line to attract attention away from him.

It's Ware. Ware is the best front 7 defender in the NFL, and he has been that for the past 3-4 years.

SeanTaylorRIP 10-26-2010 07:06 PM

Orakpo has 7 sacks, you know who's protecting him? Adam Cariker, Kedric Golston, and Maake Kemoeatu.

xxxxxxxx 10-26-2010 07:08 PM

Thank you BBD.

And rosebud.. you keep saying this year. As far as a body of work goes, this isn't even close to an arguement. Not to mention this year, Ware is 2nd in the league in sacks lol.

Your giants pass rushers deserve recognition, but they are no demarcus ware.

bigbluedefense 10-26-2010 07:08 PM

Orakpo is going to be a monster. But Ware has been doing it for awhile, so I don't see how we can give the crown to Orakpo over Ware.

Ware can cover like he's 230 lbs, he can rush the passer with the best of em, and he's like Michael Strahan in a sense that you just don't run at him.

If I could start a defense with any player in the league, I'd probably pick DeMarcus Ware.

bigbluedefense 10-26-2010 07:09 PM

And don't get me wrong, I'm not ripping on the other guys by any means. We have a sick division full of pass rushers, but none of them are DeMarcus Ware, that's all.

In 3 years maybe Orakpo can be on the same level, but he's not there right now. JPP has potential to be like Ware in 4 years, but again, he's not there and there's no saying if he will ever come close.

It's gotta be Ware.

SeanTaylorRIP 10-26-2010 07:12 PM

Oh I know I said earlier Ware is #1, I was just replying to your comment that Ware doesn't have the Giants D-line talent to draw attention, by mentioning how Orakpo is the only pass rusher on the Skins other than the blue moon when Haynesworth or Andre Carter are in there, which I can't count on two hands how often that's been.

bigbluedefense 10-26-2010 07:13 PM

Orakpo actually reminds me of a young DeMarcus Ware. But Orakpo was stronger than Ware at this point in his career, but Ware was faster.

Rosebud 10-26-2010 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense (Post 2353509)
He has 8 sacks, tied for 2nd in the league. That's pretty darn impactful.


And he doesn't have Tuck, JPP, and Kiwi (at one point) along the line to attract attention away from him.

It's Ware. Ware is the best front 7 defender in the NFL, and he has been that for the past 3-4 years.

He does of Ratliff and Spencer, which isn't that far from Tuck and JPP, now Canty and our overall better depth does give Osi and advantage but it's not that big.

I'm not arguing against the guy's career, just that this year I think Osi's been making as big of an impact so far and given how much better he has been than Ware this year at causing fumbles while getting to the QB about as well I don't really think that's as outlandish and insane a claim as the "Osi is a better and more productive DE...2.0" some of these reactions would lead you to believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDCB14 (Post 2353532)
Thank you BBD.

And rosebud.. you keep saying this year. As far as a body of work goes, this isn't even close to an arguement. Not to mention this year, Ware is 2nd in the league in sacks lol.

Your giants pass rushers deserve recognition, but they are no demarcus ware.

You're right, I'm not trying to compare body of works because there's no discussion there. Ware's clearly been the best pass rusher in this division and league over the course of his career, will be a Hall of Famer and is amazingly talented. But this is a DE thread talking specifically about this year, so wtf is the point of the thread if not to talk about how the guys have been performing this so far this year. And there there's an interesting discussion between Ware's getting sacks a higher pace with a little less help vs Osi's making way more turnovers happen.

Rosebud 10-26-2010 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense (Post 2353534)
Orakpo is going to be a monster. But Ware has been doing it for awhile, so I don't see how we can give the crown to Orakpo over Ware.

Ware can cover like he's 230 lbs, he can rush the passer with the best of em, and he's like Michael Strahan in a sense that you just don't run at him.

If I could start a defense with any player in the league, I'd probably pick DeMarcus Ware.

See I don't disagree with any of this post in the least bit, I love Ware and was one of those guys saying Ware > Merriman as a player and talent back when Merriman was destroying the league but if we're talking about just their impact as pass rushers so far this season, I think Ware v Osi is at least debatable and that's all I was trying to do.

SeanTaylorRIP 10-26-2010 07:26 PM

Well if Merriman did keep up the way he was playing his first 3 years I think he was right up there with Ware, but injuries and the Roids stuff ruined his career.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:06 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.