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hockey619 11-29-2010 11:31 AM

Contenders and Pretenders/ Truths
 
The Patriots, Jets, Falcons, and Eagles are contenders
I think these are the teams that could win the Super Bowl. I dont think anyone else could beat one of these teams in the playoffs...

Lurking: Steelers, Bears, Packers, Giants, San Diego, Ravens
Except maybe one of these guys. All these guys are good but have some serious weaknesses. I think the Bears and their Oline is the biggest weakness among this group, but theyve also beaten the Eagles and the Packers but got beat up by the Giants. They all play good defense but the Packers cant run, the Bears can block, and the Giants have some issues with their punting game and turnovers, the Chargers are doing their normal thing of good late in the year but i dont think they could go to ny or ne and win a game, not built for it so idk if i can take them seriously. The Steelers: i like them but they got absolutely clocked by the Pats and didnt look like they belonged in that game, then were a drop away from losing to the Bills, a team they have to beat. So we'll see, but theyre built to win in the playoffs...The Ravens, idk, idk if i trust Flacco in a big game in the playoffs, they need to start running a lot more and prove the D can get it done a little more before im buying in.

The Cowboys, Vikings, Bills, Browns, and Rams are spoilers
Bad teams that could screw up some teams shot at the playoffs because they have so much fight. Bills almost threw a screw ball into the Steelers playoff chances, Browns already beat the Pats, these teams are just not to be overlooked.

The 'Shut off the tv they suck so bad' teams: Cards, 9ers, Bengals
really, they suck.

Pretenders: Colts, Jags, whoever comes out of the NFC west, Texans (obviously), Titans on their third string QB
Yeah not feeling the AFC south this year. Jags arent going anywhere i have no faith in Garrard to get it done. Texans D cant stop the pass, no way they can go up north and beat one of the good teams listed before. Titans: Rusty Smith.

Yeah, the Colts are Pretenders
Seriously.

This isnt about Manning like the other thread, this is about the whole team.

They just suck. This is the worst Colts team we've seen in a decade or more easily. Ive thought this for a few weeks but wanted to see how they handled the two contenders in a row and they didnt handle any of it at all. Peyton has looked off since Clark went down, his ability to play under pressure that hed finally developed over the last couple seasons is vanishing behind that middle school offensive line and hes forcing throws and looking confused for the first time in years. If hes not on his A game this team is a rollover win for most NFL opponents as the Chargers showed.

The Colts remaining schedule is:

@Titans
Jags
@Raiders
Titans

If they split with the Titans (CJ is gunna be pissed after his 5 rush yards so he'll be looking to beast) then I think the Jags game could swing and I dont think they beat the Raiders, they run the ball very well with McFadden and the Colts D is absolutely atrocious trying to stop the run.

Even if they do make the playoffs (pretty big if), they arent going anywhere this year, they just really arent any good.



Couple of quick thoughts....

Well hes definitely not John Wayne...
Can we PLEASE end the 'Reggie Wayne is an elite weapon' bull****? The dude has been very average to terrible for over a year now, its time everyone else noticed this and not just me. Idc what his numbers say, screw stats theyre worthless, i trust what i see and what i see is he gets no seperation of any kind (weddle is an average safety and he locked him down on that INT). Hes not a number 1, hes not a 'deep threat' with his obvious lack of speed and ability to seperate, his routes have been sloppy this year with a lot of rounded cuts, and hes dropping passes left and right.

Carson Palmer Sucks
Hes terrible, he looks like his passion for the game is gone. He needs a change of scenery in the worst way and even then idk i think he might be done. I know i know: 'its the coaching!' 'Rogue recievers!' 'Hes still good its not his fault!' Shut up. He sucks.

Matt Ryan is Tom Brady 2.0
I compared them when he was coming out but damn hes a freaking exact replica of the man. I said early in the year that Orton was playing better than Ryan. I was wrong. My bad Halsey.

Cortland Finnegan looks like a jack***
Idk much about him, but he looks like such a douche with the hair and smile after that fight. what are you smilin about, your team is losing and you just got thrown around? Just sayin.



Breaking down the contenders
The Pats:
Brady? Check. Belly? Check. Good defense thats getting better, solid efficient offense with Brady at the healm, and my boy Woodhead on the field sometimes, they look like theyre gunna be a very tough team to beat in January.

The Jets: I love this team. Great D that can do it all and do it well, powerful offense and QB whos played well when hes needed to and did last year in the playoffs too. If Sanchez keeps it together theyre the team to beat.

The Falcons: A D thats just good enough with a run the ball philosophy and a Qb who can come through when they need it. Team to beat in the NFC. I wasnt on board until yesterday but its clear im late to the show and they deserve the credit.

The Eagles: Theyre good, but if they have to head to chicago or GB in January they could be in trouble. If theyre playing indoor on the turf in say Atlanta? watch out theyve got some serious speed. The Falcons are great at home, the eagles are built to play indoors much more than to power run in the outside and cold, thatd be a hell of a game.

My rankings:
Jets
Pats/Falcons

Eagles

Sorry for the long*** post.

MaxV 11-29-2010 01:26 PM

I disagree that Wayne doesn't get separation. It's not like Manning is throwing to him when he's covered all the time.

Yes, he's not really a deep threat, but he is an excellent route runner.

His cuts are very quick and precise.

SenorGato 11-29-2010 01:35 PM

Eagles = Most overrated team in football.

Giants = Most underrated team in football.

Nikolas 11-29-2010 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorGato (Post 2403840)
Eagles = Most overrated team in football.

Giants = Most underrated team in football.

Possibly... but Eagles > Giants, at least right now.

Sniper 11-29-2010 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorGato (Post 2403840)
Eagles = Most overrated team in football.

Giants = Most underrated team in football.

They're so underrated that they lost to the most overrated team in football.

TitanHope 11-29-2010 02:09 PM

As long as Rusty Smith is the QB, the Titans won't be competitive.

If Kerry Collins heals and comes back, then I think they can be competitive.

But without VY, the Titans aren't a Playoff contender. I wouldn't even put them as a pretender because they shouldn't even be in the conversation.

Bucs_Rule 11-29-2010 02:59 PM

Normally I would agree that the Titans are dead without VY. The division is really struggling so Collins could lead the team to the division title. 4 of the last 5 are against division opponents.

NY+Giants=NYG 11-29-2010 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorGato (Post 2403840)
Eagles = Most overrated team in football.

Giants = Most underrated team in football.

I don't know if we are under rated, but we are very hurt..They shouldn't bother with an injury list with us. Just name the players that are playing and assume the rest are out.

We are signing Wrs off the street, lol. And the system we run is complex based on a lot of choice and option routes, so that what makes our lack of WRs even worse.

It would be nice if we can get some OL back too.. We have a 3rd string LT, a LG who barely plays, and our normal LG is playing center. It's like musical offensive line men. Only Snee and McKenzie are at their real positions.

wicket 11-29-2010 03:56 PM

c'mon with an 8-3 record and actually playing way below standard offensively (partially due to injuries) Id say that the saints are at least lurking

dunagan15 11-29-2010 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey619 (Post 2403581)
The Patriots, Jets, Falcons, and Eagles are contenders
I think these are the teams that could win the Super Bowl. I dont think anyone else could beat one of these teams in the playoffs...

Lurking: Steelers, Bears, Packers, Giants, San Diego, Ravens
Except maybe one of these guys. All these guys are good but have some serious weaknesses. I think the Bears and their Oline is the biggest weakness among this group, but theyve also beaten the Eagles and the Packers but got beat up by the Giants. They all play good defense but the Packers cant run, the Bears can block, and the Giants have some issues with their punting game and turnovers, the Chargers are doing their normal thing of good late in the year but i dont think they could go to ny or ne and win a game, not built for it so idk if i can take them seriously. The Steelers: i like them but they got absolutely clocked by the Pats and didnt look like they belonged in that game, then were a drop away from losing to the Bills, a team they have to beat. So we'll see, but theyre built to win in the playoffs...The Ravens, idk, idk if i trust Flacco in a big game in the playoffs, they need to start running a lot more and prove the D can get it done a little more before im buying in.

The Cowboys, Vikings, Bills, Browns, and Rams are spoilers
Bad teams that could screw up some teams shot at the playoffs because they have so much fight. Bills almost threw a screw ball into the Steelers playoff chances, Browns already beat the Pats, these teams are just not to be overlooked.

The 'Shut off the tv they suck so bad' teams: Cards, 9ers, Bengals
really, they suck.

Pretenders: Colts, Jags, whoever comes out of the NFC west, Texans (obviously), Titans on their third string QB
Yeah not feeling the AFC south this year. Jags arent going anywhere i have no faith in Garrard to get it done. Texans D cant stop the pass, no way they can go up north and beat one of the good teams listed before. Titans: Rusty Smith.

Yeah, the Colts are Pretenders
Seriously.

This isnt about Manning like the other thread, this is about the whole team.

They just suck. This is the worst Colts team we've seen in a decade or more easily. Ive thought this for a few weeks but wanted to see how they handled the two contenders in a row and they didnt handle any of it at all. Peyton has looked off since Clark went down, his ability to play under pressure that hed finally developed over the last couple seasons is vanishing behind that middle school offensive line and hes forcing throws and looking confused for the first time in years. If hes not on his A game this team is a rollover win for most NFL opponents as the Chargers showed.

The Colts remaining schedule is:

@Titans
Jags
@Raiders
Titans

If they split with the Titans (CJ is gunna be pissed after his 5 rush yards so he'll be looking to beast) then I think the Jags game could swing and I dont think they beat the Raiders, they run the ball very well with McFadden and the Colts D is absolutely atrocious trying to stop the run.

Even if they do make the playoffs (pretty big if), they arent going anywhere this year, they just really arent any good.



Couple of quick thoughts....

Well hes definitely not John Wayne...
Can we PLEASE end the 'Reggie Wayne is an elite weapon' bull****? The dude has been very average to terrible for over a year now, its time everyone else noticed this and not just me. Idc what his numbers say, screw stats theyre worthless, i trust what i see and what i see is he gets no seperation of any kind (weddle is an average safety and he locked him down on that INT). Hes not a number 1, hes not a 'deep threat' with his obvious lack of speed and ability to seperate, his routes have been sloppy this year with a lot of rounded cuts, and hes dropping passes left and right.

Carson Palmer Sucks
Hes terrible, he looks like his passion for the game is gone. He needs a change of scenery in the worst way and even then idk i think he might be done. I know i know: 'its the coaching!' 'Rogue recievers!' 'Hes still good its not his fault!' Shut up. He sucks.

Matt Ryan is Tom Brady 2.0
I compared them when he was coming out but damn hes a freaking exact replica of the man. I said early in the year that Orton was playing better than Ryan. I was wrong. My bad Halsey.

Cortland Finnegan looks like a jack***
Idk much about him, but he looks like such a douche with the hair and smile after that fight. what are you smilin about, your team is losing and you just got thrown around? Just sayin.



Breaking down the contenders
The Pats:
Brady? Check. Belly? Check. Good defense thats getting better, solid efficient offense with Brady at the healm, and my boy Woodhead on the field sometimes, they look like theyre gunna be a very tough team to beat in January.

The Jets: I love this team. Great D that can do it all and do it well, powerful offense and QB whos played well when hes needed to and did last year in the playoffs too. If Sanchez keeps it together theyre the team to beat.

The Falcons: A D thats just good enough with a run the ball philosophy and a Qb who can come through when they need it. Team to beat in the NFC. I wasnt on board until yesterday but its clear im late to the show and they deserve the credit.

The Eagles: Theyre good, but if they have to head to chicago or GB in January they could be in trouble. If theyre playing indoor on the turf in say Atlanta? watch out theyve got some serious speed. The Falcons are great at home, the eagles are built to play indoors much more than to power run in the outside and cold, thatd be a hell of a game.

My rankings:
Jets
Pats/Falcons

Eagles

Sorry for the long*** post.


Hes not quite there yet, obviously hes still very young but the one thing that sets them apart is Brady's ability to throw the deep ball. Ryan's arm isnt what Brady's is right now and hopefully he cant get to that point, aside from that I agree. Footwork, decision making, Cool under pressure and GW drives.

LizardState 11-29-2010 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitanHope (Post 2403913)
As long as Rusty Smith is the QB, the Titans won't be competitive.

If Kerry Collins heals and comes back, then I think they can be competitive.

But without VY, the Titans aren't a Playoff contender. I wouldn't even put them as a pretender because they shouldn't even be in the conversation.

Won't they rally around Heimerdinger & win? Maybe not.

But that's the truth coming from a Titans fan, they could marginally win (most of the time) with a healthy VY & that means mentally & physically & good luck on getting both of those, I think he's done in Tennessee. They can maybe win with Collins at the very dead end (last 5%) of his career, wll need a few breaks to do it.

Quote:

RE: Finnegan: what are you smilin about, your team is losing and you just got thrown around?
He smiled b/c he got the best (arguably) WR in the NFL thrown out of the game, don't think that wasn't deliberate b/c it was -- he enjoys the peer status in the locker room of being a provocative punk, makes him a "Team Guy," Raiders used to do that **** all the time. His fine is badge of honor on a team that appears to value dirty players, remember what a prick Haynesworth was as a Titan? Ask Andre Gurode.

hockey619 11-29-2010 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxV (Post 2403819)
I disagree that Wayne doesn't get separation. It's not like Manning is throwing to him when he's covered all the time.

Yes, he's not really a deep threat, but he is an excellent route runner.

His cuts are very quick and precise.

Eh, i guess we'll just have to disaggree then. Everytime ive seen him over the last year plus hes looked average at absolute best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss+Manning=Banning (Post 2404115)
I don't know if we are under rated, but we are very hurt..They shouldn't bother with an injury list with us. Just name the players that are playing and assume the rest are out.

We are signing Wrs off the street, lol. And the system we run is complex based on a lot of choice and option routes, so that what makes our lack of WRs even worse.

It would be nice if we can get some OL back too.. We have a 3rd string LT, a LG who barely plays, and our normal LG is playing center. It's like musical offensive line men. Only Snee and McKenzie are at their real positions.

To you and the guy who said Eagles are overrated/Giants underrated:

Im a giants guy, but this giants team is a total enigma to me.

They came out and lost to the Eagles and got smoked by the colts, lost to dallas, but shut down houston and beasted the same Dallas team the first time (dominated the game, score was closer than the game) while also beating the living hell out jay cutler. If the recievers would hold onto the ball and stop creating so many ints i think theyre for real but you just never know who is gunna show up and how perry is gunna call the game for that D. You either get the little giants or The New York Giants, the latter of which was one of the best teams in the league for a while and still has the parts to be hell to play against in the playoffs. We're just waiting to see which D we really have and if the turnovers can stop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicket (Post 2404122)
c'mon with an 8-3 record and actually playing way below standard offensively (partially due to injuries) Id say that the saints are at least lurking

DAMNIT, ****!!!

i forgot to put them in the thing ugh i knew i forgot someone:
Idk if i like them quite yet, they have no running game and i think the falcons are a much more complete team I cant imagine them beating them under any circumstances really. I dont think they could play with the jets or pats and maybe hang with the eagles (who i think are the lower end of elite teams) in the playoffs.

They may make some noise (definitely lurking, my bad) but i dont see it. No run game, gunna have to go into atlanta or chicago/GB and theyre not built to play in a game like that. They might take down the Eagles, but the eagles have the better d and run game and better passing game at this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunagan15 (Post 2404137)
Hes not quite there yet, obviously hes still very young but the one thing that sets them apart is Brady's ability to throw the deep ball. Ryan's arm isnt what Brady's is right now and hopefully he cant get to that point, aside from that I agree. Footwork, decision making, Cool under pressure and GW drives.

Brady worked on his arm and made it much better over the years. I think Ryan can do the same. Its not just the late drives im impressed with, its the calmness, you just know hes got his **** together. Him vs josh freeman is gunna be fun to watch for the next decade, division is looking like it could get very tough for a long time.

hockey619 11-29-2010 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitanHope (Post 2403913)
As long as Rusty Smith is the QB, the Titans won't be competitive.

If Kerry Collins heals and comes back, then I think they can be competitive.

But without VY, the Titans aren't a Playoff contender. I wouldn't even put them as a pretender because they shouldn't even be in the conversation.

This is basically what i meant. Their record says theyre in it (even with a win this coming weekend against indy then theyre right there in the thick of things) but lets face it theyre not winning a super bowl and i think that even if Kerry comes back. Sorry but as a Giants fan i can say kerry is one of my most hated nfl guys, dude just has a way of getting you so close and then crushing you. And this isnt the same oline that helped CJ to 2k, i said before the season they wouldnt be as good and without him getting yards on the ground theyre going no where in a hurry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LizardState (Post 2404145)
Won't they rally around Heimerdinger & win? Maybe not.

But that's the truth coming from a Titans fan, they could marginally win (most of the time) with a healthy VY & that means mentally & physically & good luck on getting both of those, I think he's done in Tennessee. They can maybe win with Collins at the very dead end (last 5%) of his career, wll need a few breaks to do it.



He smiled b/c he got the best (arguably) WR in the NFL thrown out of the game, don't think that wasn't deliberate b/c it was -- he enjoys the peer status in the locker room of being a provocative punk, makes him a "Team Guy," Raiders used to do that **** all the time. His fine is badge of honor on a team that appears to value dirty players, remember what a prick Haynesworth was as a Titan? Ask Andre Gurode.

Ahhhhh so hes a dbag, a sean avery type, gotcha. Yeah he got AJ thrown out....when he was already losing 17-0.....and had already got burned for a TD where AJ ran away from him......and then he got tossed around like a child on national television.....he really won that battle.

Sorry, but i dont like guys who talk a good game and talk crap and all that noise. I think if youre good you dont have to tell people, they already know from someone else.

descendency 11-29-2010 06:19 PM

I'd say my surprise team will be the Ravens. If they get their ground game going again, they can beat anyone at anywhere.

tjsunstein 11-30-2010 03:15 AM

I'm a firm believer that no one has beat the Packers this year but themselves. Am I being a homer here? I don't know, maybe? But, has anyone non biased watched every Packers' loss?

Sure, you could say that about every team and partially get away with it but having watched every Green Bay game this year, it's pretty obvious. We don't run the ball with our power back on short downs. We abandon our run game too quickly and force it in the play call to try to set something up down the line. Everything seemed out of place in Atlanta. Halfway through the second quarter, I'm sure every Packers' fan had the same feeling, and it wasn't a good one. We see how we play when we lose and it shows early and often.

AntoinCD 11-30-2010 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency (Post 2404310)
I'd say my surprise team will be the Ravens. If they get their ground game going again, they can beat anyone at anywhere.

The Ravens are at a distinct disadvantage offensively though. Because clearly Cam Cameron thinks since they have a first round QB then they need to throw the ball 70% of the time instead of handing it off to their beast of a RB.

BigBanger 11-30-2010 05:30 AM

I've never considered Reggie Wayne a top 5 WR... EVER. He runs the same 5 routes all day long and gets punked in the playoffs. He's a weak, soft player that has inflated stats due to a spread system and one of the all-time great QBs to ever play. That QB can get Blair White in the end zone 3 times in 2 weeks and make a terrible player like Pierre "Brick Hands" Garcon a name most fans know. Wayne's still a good player and he still runs good routes, but he's nothing special. Never has been. Just benefited from a perfect scheme and a great QB. He's nowhere close to the same kind of player Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson are, yet he has similar stats (in some cases even better stats) than the two of them. He's overrated, but it's not like this is his first year where he's been bullied or shutdown from time-to-time.

Gay Ork Wang 11-30-2010 05:41 AM

To be fair, his body control and hands were amazing the last 2 years, just didnt get as much seperation as you would like

AntoinCD 11-30-2010 05:47 AM

Reggie Wayne does most things well. He runs good routes, has good hands, shields defenders with his body, recognises coverages etc. However he lacks top end speed or strength and offers nothing after the catch. This is why he should never have been considered an elite WR. Extremely solid and probably top 10 in the league a few years ago but always a little overrated IMO

Caddy 11-30-2010 05:49 AM

How can the Saints not be lurking? I'd be tempted to have them as contenders. As far as I'm concerned they are my pick from the NFC to make the Superbowl. Drew Brees + Top defense = win!

wicket 11-30-2010 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey619 (Post 2404266)
DAMNIT, ****!!!

i forgot to put them in the thing ugh i knew i forgot someone:
Idk if i like them quite yet, they have no running game and i think the falcons are a much more complete team I cant imagine them beating them under any circumstances really. I dont think they could play with the jets or pats and maybe hang with the eagles (who i think are the lower end of elite teams) in the playoffs.

They may make some noise (definitely lurking, my bad) but i dont see it. No run game, gunna have to go into atlanta or chicago/GB and theyre not built to play in a game like that. They might take down the Eagles, but the eagles have the better d and run game and better passing game at this point.

Well my reasoning is easy. We almost beat the falcons when playing like crap. Brees is getting back to his usual self slowly but surely. Bush and Thomas are coming back from injury and Ivory is improving each and every game so the running game will pick up and we field the 6th ranked defense dispite a ton of injuries. The thing that kills us that outside of playing us Atlanta pretty much plays noone else anymore so even when we win out we will prolly still get the wild card. (dayum thats gonna blow getting the WC with 13 wins). However I really am not all that worried about anyone and think we can win against anyone as long as the offense plays up to potential.

In principle this years team is better than last years as the offense is just the same offense and the defense has made decent strides.

Brent 11-30-2010 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjsunstein (Post 2405129)
But, has anyone non biased watched every Packers' loss?

I thought you guys had the Atlanta game. At least until the Rodgers fumble.

Gay Ork Wang 11-30-2010 08:39 AM

i doubt there are a lot of losses out there where the losing team didnt make mistakes...

J-Mike88 11-30-2010 09:25 AM

Interesting tidbit:
The Packers haven't lose a game in the past 12 months other than on the last play of the game, or with less than 15 seconds left in the game.

In other words, we either whip a team, or play them close.... and a bunch of times we have that one fumble or special teams breakdown that costs us the game. Or the FG off the post (@ Washington), or the strange penalty call that has never been called before (Miami).

We can blow teams out (Minnesota, Dallas, Buffalo), shut teams out (Jets), but we also are good at losing by 3 points at the last second.

We outplayed the Bears, Redskins, and Falcons in almost every phase of the game. But found ways to put one in the L column anyway.

Is that a trend?
Or another thing?

AntoinCD 11-30-2010 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mike88 (Post 2405264)
Interesting tidbit:
The Packers haven't lose a game in the past 12 months other than on the last play of the game, or with less than 15 seconds left in the game.

In other words, we either whip a team, or play them close.... and a bunch of times we have that one fumble or special teams breakdown that costs us the game. Or the FG off the post (@ Washington), or the strange penalty call that has never been called before (Miami).

We can blow teams out (Minnesota, Dallas, Buffalo), shut teams out (Jets), but we also are good at losing by 3 points at the last second.

We outplayed the Bears, Redskins, and Falcons in almost every phase of the game. But found ways to put one in the L column anyway.

Is that a trend?
Or another thing?

I'd say it's a worrying trend. The sign of a good team is not making the critical mistake and winning the close ones. I think a lot has to be put down to the lack of running game Green Bay has. For example, Rodgers fumble at the weekend


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