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-   -   Thoughts on Cameron Heyward? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44912)

midwestpatsfan 01-06-2011 09:10 AM

Thoughts on Cameron Heyward?
 
If anyone saw the bowl game against Arkansas, you know that Heyward played out of his mind. He has the body type to be a DE in the Patriots system and if he plays like he did against Arkansas, sign me up. That is the question, I have read other places that he seems to disappear in games and is not always motivated. So what are your thoughts on this guy for the Patriots, both positive and negative.

ElectricEye 01-06-2011 03:57 PM

It's really hard to look past the massive positives after that Bowl game. Best player on the field regardless of position that day. I don't really buy the concerns about motor and disappearing as he was often doubled teamed and asked to move around the line, which sort of influenced the raw numbers.

luckyjackaubrey 01-06-2011 05:42 PM

He is what you want this team to pick with a high draft choice. At that position you first want him to be able to occupy blockers and stop the run. He has the size and athleticism to do that. Something akin to Ty Warren's carreer performance.

On the high end you hope he can be a disruptive matchup nightmare and get some push in the passing game. Performances like the bowl game tell you he has that potential ala Richard Seymour.

If he plays beside Wilfork and Warren in this coaches scheme is he going to deliver the goods? There are never any certainties in the draft but I would call that a fairly safe pick. Defensive end in our 3-4 is not a sexy position and the quality performance is often not going to show up in the box score.

I take this guy before I take a rush OLB like Kerrigan early. Kerrigan will be asked to do things he hasn't been asked to do before and if he isn't able to do them then he becomes very one dimensional. Huge upside but bigger risk. I like him tons too but Heyward is the one I choose with the early pick.

ElectricEye 01-06-2011 05:46 PM

Eric Moore has proved that BB can manufacture pass rush to a certain extent. You can get by doing that with good athletes, guys to take up blockers, and scheme. One thing you can't manufacture is sheer physical strength. We've got by this year on smoke, mirrors, and Vince Wilfork. That's a situation we can live with, but not one we should be content to stay in. If it takes a premium draft pick to sure up our defensive line for the next 4+ years, that's not bad. Pass rushers are easier to find and more effective when you have guys to occupy blockers anyway. That's completely ignoring the fact that Cameron Heyward is a threat as a pass rusher too. Might not be a ten sack guy, but I could see him regularly putting up 5+ and that's a conservative estimate as well.

Don Vito 01-06-2011 05:53 PM

I want him on our team very badly. BBD had a post the other day about what positions certain defenses put a premium on, and we put a premium on our DL. We used first rounder on Seymour, Warren, and Wilfork within five years of each other and I would be very surprised to see us not take a DE in the first 33 picks. Heyward is a great fit too, he's my guy at end (I also love Allen Bailey).

ElectricEye 01-06-2011 06:13 PM

I'm off the Allen Bailey train a bit. Great potential, but for a guy with his ability he gets contained waay too easily. 3-4 might help him maximize his talent, but I'm currently in Big 10 country for my D-Linemen picks.

Nalej 01-06-2011 06:21 PM

I'm hoping more QBs, DTs, CBs and WRs climb up the big boards.
Therefore more OLBs and DEs are available for us :)
I like OLB at 17 bc there's more quality DEs than OLBs so I feel we'll still get a better combined return going OLB then DE

SenorGato 01-06-2011 06:23 PM

Best 3-4 DE in the class ay Pats fans? Hope you guys don't end up with him. ;)

nepg 01-06-2011 06:56 PM

He comes off the field a whole lot... And I've noticed that this was the case all season long... Might come off the field as much as Terrance Cody.

luckyjackaubrey 01-06-2011 07:06 PM

We rotate all our DLs on a regular basis. It seems like Wilfork was on the field the whole season but he lead our lineman playing like 67% of the time. We have proven that we can plug street FAs and late round picks into the rotation and they get the job done but as I said somewhere else earlier, BB does a good job of balancing the allocation of premium picks for each position. DL is in need of some fresh young talent.

nepg 01-06-2011 07:19 PM

Wilfork's a big dude. Guys like Warren and Seymour stay in the game. Judging by the amount of head tapping by Heyward, I'd be scared of him going into his first training camp with the Pats.

ElectricEye 01-06-2011 08:48 PM

That is an interesting point and it's something I've seen too. An issue? Potentially.

Razor 01-07-2011 02:41 AM

We could just sign Seymour after his contract expires. I doubt that the Raiders will franchise him again. I'm still not sold on a DLineman in the first, mostly because I want that stud pass rusher. You can win the battle at the LOS, but if you don't have a pass rusher that can close in on the QB quickly, it'll be like it has been for the last few years: The Qb throws the ball away, or scrambles like a ************* an some jag receiver catches the ball with his ******* helmet! Kerrigan is Mike Vrabel with better athletisism and upside. That's who I want at this point. Christian Ballard could be just as good as Heyward and we can probably pick him up with our own second rounder.

luckyjackaubrey 01-07-2011 07:20 AM

If your front three contains no hint of a pass rush that is why your blitzing OLBs are not getting it done. Finding an edge guy will be easier because a d lineman that can get to the qb is rare (as far as ones that fit the 3-4).

opposing teams don't have to commit multiple guys to anyone on our line, no one needs help so they have the extra blocker to pick up any blitz. We need a disruptor in the Seymour role. Seymour didnt rack up the sacks personally but teams spent so much effort and resources blocking him that you would see a host of other guys picking up sacks because they were either 1 v1 or just came clean?

Two of my favorite Pats were Vrabel and Bruschi, but neither of them were elite pass rushers. much of their stats were inflated by the other talent around them. First round picks on stud d line historically work out. Even #1 overall pick Rick Sims wasn't a total bust. He never became what we thought he could, but he was always our best lineman.

ElectricEye 01-07-2011 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckyjackaubrey (Post 2465893)
If your front three contains no hint of a pass rush that is why your blitzing OLBs are not getting it done. Finding an edge guy will be easier because a d lineman that can get to the qb is rare (as far as ones that fit the 3-4).

opposing teams don't have to commit multiple guys to anyone on our line, no one needs help so they have the extra blocker to pick up any blitz. We need a disruptor in the Seymour role. Seymour didnt rack up the sacks personally but teams spent so much effort and resources blocking him that you would see a host of other guys picking up sacks because they were either 1 v1 or just came clean?

Two of my favorite Pats were Vrabel and Bruschi, but neither of them were elite pass rushers. much of their stats were inflated by the other talent around them. First round picks on stud d line historically work out. Even #1 overall pick Rick Sims wasn't a total bust. He never became what we thought he could, but he was always our best lineman.

Very good post. Agree. Pass rush because easier to manufacture if you have a guy taking up multiple blockers.

FlyingElvis 01-07-2011 09:55 AM

I concur.

Our entire defense struggles with Wilfork out of place. Having a true, 3 down 5-tech again would allow us to send our much improved LB core (and safeties, on occasion) flying around the pocket like we did w/Seymour / Vrable / Bru / Harrison. And lord help any QB we face if that true DE can push the pocket some, too.

V-Weazy will be seriously weazy if we keep forcing him into 3 down duty. The man is absolutely not built for that. Edge rushers always look more studly when the DE commands the double team.

ElectricEye 01-07-2011 10:00 AM

Defensive line will always be a more important position than linebacker in any scheme. The name linebacker even implies that haha.

Nalej 01-07-2011 12:05 PM

I agree. We've been begging for a stud OLB for years now. Please, lets just X that box off already

ElectricEye 01-07-2011 12:09 PM

I want both and I think we can have them if we play our cards right.

FlyingElvis 01-07-2011 12:15 PM

I think both positions have good depth so there's no reason we can't have both. But there really is no question which of the two BB & Co. place a higher value on.

descendency 01-07-2011 09:18 PM

I feel when he is going 100%, he's the best 30 front 34 DE.

patriots21 02-20-2011 09:11 AM

Im not a big fan of Heyward or Baily. I think we gotta address DE at 17 with Cam Jordan or JJ Watt.

Nalej 02-20-2011 09:46 AM

Eh, I disagree and concur with descendency.
I think he's the best odd front DE. (When going 100% which I think won't be a problem in NE)

TNPatsFan 02-20-2011 10:08 AM

I would rather have Cam Heyward than Cam Jordan. He's just a better player. I know Jordan was said to have a superb week at Senior Bowl practices, but what did he do in the game? Nothing. And I watched a few Cal games this year specifically to watch Jordan, and he was ok but he sure didn't look like a top 20 draft pick. More like a second rounder.

Cam Heyward on the other hand is on my list of top wishes for the Pats to get in this draft.

proshoota25 02-20-2011 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNPatsFan (Post 2526910)
I would rather have Cam Heyward than Cam Jordan. He's just a better player. I know Jordan was said to have a superb week at Senior Bowl practices, but what did he do in the game? Nothing. And I watched a few Cal games this year specifically to watch Jordan, and he was ok but he sure didn't look like a top 20 draft pick. More like a second rounder.

Cam Heyward on the other hand is on my list of top wishes for the Pats to get in this draft.

i will argue though that if you watched a few OSU games this year, Heyward looked like a mid-round pick. he got destroyed by carimi. just watching games isnt everything.


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