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-   -   2nd/3rd-Tier QB's: Dalton, Ponder, Kaepernick, Stanzi (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46986)

J-Mike88 04-21-2011 05:50 PM

2nd/3rd-Tier QB's: Dalton, Ponder, Kaepernick, Stanzi
 
Reading thru the thread on Colin Kapernick, seeing some love for him, I also noticed some serious love for Stanzi.

But I've heard some national guys on Sirius' NFL Network talk about Christian Ponder being super high on some teams lists, while others think Andy Dalton is a Tom Brady type.... not flashy, but a pure winner who can make all the throws, if not spectacular (like Michigan Brady).

That being said, all things being equal, which of these 4 second-tier QBs do you think will be the best NFL QB?

Of course, if one goes to a s*** team while another goes to a team with some great WRs or RB, offensive coordinator, etc that will make a difference.

But Josh Freeman and Matty Cassel put up phenomenal numbers on Tampa Bay and Kansas City, so the QB can rise from the ashes. Those offenses were horse**** before those QBs just took them up 4 levels.

(Mallet & Locker aren't in this tier, as both those guys have, at one time or another, been rated as potential #1 overall picks...)




Pat Sims 90 04-21-2011 05:57 PM

i am still on Ponder bandwagon i think if he is able to stay healthy he could be the best QB in this class. Andy Dalton is a close second though.

GaMeTiMe 04-21-2011 06:05 PM

Ponder's performance depends too much on his health - he checked out well this off-season but he hasn't been playing NFL football and he could barely hold up at the college level. I'm not confident in his ability to stay healthy at all. The Chad Pennington comparisons are pretty much dead on to me.

Dalton and Stanzi won and didn't look bad doing it. That's really all they have going for them at this point. If they were talked about as 5th-6th round picks, we'd all accept it as truth. They're instead being talked about as 2nd-3rd round guys, so that's where we have them pegged. There's nothing on tape that really suggests either will be successful at the next level, although each have caretaker potential at the position.

That leaves Kaepernick, who I voted for. Most upside in the draft as an all around player at the position. Don't like the transition from the pistol more than the fact that he played at Nevada although that slightly bothers me as well. He's definitely a 2-year project type at least from a production standpoint but he has a real high ceiling, there isn't much to not like about him as a player. I mocked him to Miami in the first months ago and almost got boo'ed out of the building, but if they can squeeze another year out of Henne (I know, I know..) that may be their best pick at #15. I don't know if they can trade down and still get him with Jacksonville lurking, I think they have genuine interest aswell.

Like it or not I truly think Kaepernick is a LOT higher on team's boards than we think. People have been saying the same about Dalton and Ponder, but I honestly believe that's only to defer even more teams from falling over each other to move up and get Kaepernick

FrankGore 04-21-2011 06:15 PM

I think the thing that's going to help Ponder and Dalton is, they will most likely end up in West Coast systems where their strengths (quick release, good footwork, accuracy, ability to read defenses) will be highlighted, and their weaknesses (lack of elite arm strength) won't be as crippling. I think either one of the two would be good for teams like Seattle, San Fran, etc.

I want to believe in Kaepernick but he's going to have to land in the right situation. He's like the PG13, slightly less athletic version of Cam Newton but probably with the better throwing arm. He's going to require such a revamp in his footwork and mechanics that he has more to worry about than just going from the spread to under center. If my team took him I would want him to disappear for at least a year and just work on his stuff behind the scenes, because he won't be ready to play.

Stanzi is alright too. I have him a notch below the rest of the guys but I could see a team tabbing him as a guy for the future and stashing him away for a year.

GoRavens 04-21-2011 06:17 PM

Ricky Stanzi will be real nice

Babylon 04-21-2011 06:17 PM

Went with Ponder. Mobile, decent arm, reads the field pretty well. I think he's just on the edge of being in the top tier and i'd take him before Newton and Mallett to be honest but borderline top tier.

49erNation85 04-21-2011 06:20 PM

If Ponder can stay clean of heath then he is game for a good rookie season depends on where he goes.I do like Kaepernick though who is all good to go as well just has that darn QB snap from center.

niel89 04-21-2011 07:29 PM

I have to go Ponder here. He is the only guy that I would take in the 2nd. The others are 3rd and later to me.

K Train 04-21-2011 08:00 PM

ponder
kaepernick
dalton
stanzi

Wrathman 04-21-2011 08:27 PM

In this group, I think Ponder has the highest floor while Kaepernick has the highest ceiling with both capable of starting. I see Stanzi and Dalton as career backups.

jrdrylie 04-21-2011 08:38 PM

It's Ponder if he stays healthy. If not, I'd go with Stanzi. Dalton next and then Kaepernick way behind. Heck, I'd take Enderle and maybe even McElroy over him.

J-Mike88 04-21-2011 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaMeTiMe (Post 2577879)
That leaves Kaepernick, who I voted for.

Like it or not I truly think Kaepernick is a LOT higher on team's boards than we think. People have been saying the same about Dalton and Ponder, but I honestly believe that's only to defer even more teams from falling over each other to move up and get Kaepernick

The cool thing about this site is everything is on record (except editing), and we can look back at this in 2, 3, 4 years.

I'll go out on a limb and say Kaepernick will never be anything better than a John Beck/Tarvarris Jackson/Brian Brohm/Chad Henne type.... a guy taken about round 2-3 who's given a few chances but never amounts to anything and is quickly forgotten about, dismissed, discarded.

I'm not high on that guy.

The other 3 could all become more successful IMO, but I lost some faith in Stanzi last year too. I really like Dalton, and Ponder if he can last.

nepg 04-21-2011 10:31 PM

Kaepernick. I have him going to the Jags in the mock I'm working on.

49erNation85 04-21-2011 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg (Post 2578061)
Kaepernick. I have him going to the Jags in the mock I'm working on.

That would be a good spot for him to sit and learn while Garrad finish his contract out.Then be ready to start after he leaves.

JaxJag_1 04-21-2011 10:54 PM

Dalton, and it's not even close.

Kaepernick is a great athlete. That makes him a great prospect, except for the fact that it doesn't.

Ponder is Trent Edwards version 2.0

Stanzi is a nice sleeper, and he's number 2 behind Dalton

J-Mike88 04-21-2011 11:00 PM

How many games of Kapernick have you guys who love him, actually seen?
What about his passing ability to you see that makes you think he can be a 25+ TD guy in the NFL?

I don't see it, but I've only seen about 4-5 games of the guy. Wasn't impressed. Thought he was a skinnier Alex Smith. At best.

RaiderNation 04-21-2011 11:24 PM

I believe Ponder is the safest of the 4, most likely turning out to be a solid starter that can win you games. But if I'm looking for a guy who can potentially be a franchise type guy I would select Stanzi. I think he has everything that a franchise type QB needs, he just needs to land at the right place with the right coaches. I still haven't bought into the Dalton hype but I still have him as a solid 2nd round pick. Lastly Kaepernick is the biggest project of maybe all the QBs in this draft but I can also see him having some success in the NFL if he isn't rushed onto the field

J-Mike88 04-21-2011 11:34 PM

Sidenote question:
Name the receivers for these 4 QB's last season.

K Train 04-21-2011 11:39 PM

i think ponder is gonna be a stud on some wco team.

kaepernick seems like dennis dixon to me...big arm, throws with velocity, has wheels on him but looks like a project that has second round potential. hes a little bigger than dixon, but similar players (dixon pre injury had about the same stock)

BigJohn98 04-22-2011 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaxJag_1 (Post 2578072)
Dalton, and it's not even close.

Kaepernick is a great athlete. That makes him a great prospect, except for the fact that it doesn't.

Ponder is Trent Edwards version 2.0

Stanzi is a nice sleeper, and he's number 2 behind Dalton

You used to be all over the Christian Ponder bandwagon and then you all of a sudden hoped on Andy Dalton's nuts. And quit with the "it's not even close" crap. Ponder>>>>Dalton.

BigJohn98 04-22-2011 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg (Post 2578061)
Kaepernick. I have him going to the Jags in the mock I'm working on.

Wow, you might be the first person on earth to not give us Ryan Kerrigan in a mock draft.

Giants34 04-22-2011 12:14 AM

Depends mainly on where these guys go but Kaepernick is really the only one that will experience a steep learning curve so its a tough one because I think the other 3 are all equally capable of coming in helping a team right away but to pick one...Dalton.

J-Mike88 04-22-2011 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn98 (Post 2578110)
You used to be all over the Christian Ponder bandwagon and then you all of a sudden hoped on Andy Dalton's nuts. And quit with the "it's not even close" crap.

I like it... a guy with a memory. Way to keep him in line and held accountable!
lol.

JaxJag_1 04-22-2011 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn98 (Post 2578110)
You used to be all over the Christian Ponder bandwagon and then you all of a sudden hoped on Andy Dalton's nuts. And quit with the "it's not even close" crap. Ponder>>>>Dalton.

You're right. I was a big Ponder guy back in September, but then I watched nearly every FSU game this year and he had another injury plagued season -- and even when he was healthy I wasn't very impressed.

I've always liked Dalton, but then in November and December I fell in love with Andy Dalton.

My opinions of Dalton and Ponder have gone in opposite directions since mid-season.

J-Mike88 04-22-2011 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaxJag_1 (Post 2578194)
You're right. I was a big Ponder guy back in September, but then I watched nearly every FSU game this year and he had another injury plagued season -- and even when he was healthy I wasn't very impressed.

I've always liked Dalton, but then in November and December I fell in love with Andy Dalton.

My opinions of Dalton and Ponder have gone in opposite directions since mid-season.

Fair enough.... and it obviously cannot be overlooked: Ponder hasn't been able to stay on the field in college. How will that change in the NFL against bigger, faster, more violent guys? In a longer season?

That's a very valid concern. That's why I am shocked at him leading this currently.

How good has Stafford done in Detroit missing more games than he's played?


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