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-   -   2011 Final Forum Mock (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47253)

phlysac 04-28-2011 03:30 PM

2011 Final Forum Mock
 
Here are the selections footballfan098 and myself made. I'd appreciate any feedback.




1(7) Prince Amukamara - Cornerback - Nebraska



2(39)* Christian Ponder - Quarterback - Florida State



3(76) Dontay Moch - Outside Linebacker - Nevada



4(115) Daniel Thomas - Running Back - Kansas State



5(141) Chimdi Chekwa - Cornerback - Ohio State



6(174) Cedric Thronton - Defensive End - Southern Arkansas



6(190) Dion Lewis - Running Back - Pittsburgh



7(211) Rob Housler - Tight End - Florida Atlantic



7(231) Stanley Havili - Fullback - USC



7(239) Anthony Gray - Nose Tackle - Southern Mississippi



7(250) Courtney Smith - Wide Receiver - South Alabama



* - 49ers traded pick 2(45) and 4(108) to Tennessee Titans for 2(39)

dan77733 04-28-2011 03:43 PM

A few observations -

Dont you mean you traded 45 and 108 to TEN for 39?

Why did you draft two RB's and no NT until the 7th round?

Like drafting Prince and im assuming that Peterson was already gone but was Green or Gabbert still there? if so, should have tried to trade down with WSH but still get Prince. Oh well, I like the Prince pick.

Dont like trading up for a QB. If we draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd, fine but I wouldnt trade up for any of them. This year is basically 2005 all over again in regards to us needing a QB but unlike 2005, I would stay away and wait until FA starts and go after Packers Flynn and Bucs Johnson.

Would have preferred that NT Ellis in the second. Personally, I think that after CB, NT is our biggest need defensively and while QB beats both, the difference is that there's a far lower risk in regards to CB and NT instead of QB. Plus, our defense needs that massive body to replace Franklin.

Dont like drafting a TE or a WR period. Only receiver I have any interest in is Green and thats only if Peterson and Prince are both gone by 7.

phlysac 04-28-2011 04:17 PM

Appreciate your feedback Dan I'll try to address your thoughts individually...

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733 (Post 2584305)
A few observations -

Dont you mean you traded 45 and 108 to TEN for 39?

I did, indeed, I made the correction. Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733 (Post 2584305)
Why did you draft two RB's and no NT until the 7th round?

Drafting 2 RBs was definitely a dilemma. However we felt that Lewis' value was too much to pass up in the late 6th. He's the pass receiving threat out of the backfield that the 49ers don't have if Gore were to go down. The competition between Dixon, Thomas, and Lewis will be very interesting and with Gore's injury history, I'd rather a player like Dion Lewis taking up a roster spot than a player like Chris Maragos.

No NT until the 7th? Two reasons. I don't think that NT is nearly the need that you do. Secondly, I wasn't going to reach for a need. I really tried to stick to drafting players at good value. In that instance, all of the NT prospects (of which there are VERY few) were all taken prior to my rankings. I'm VERY happy with the NT that I selected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733 (Post 2584305)
Like drafting Prince and im assuming that Peterson was already gone but was Green or Gabbert still there? if so, should have tried to trade down with WSH but still get Prince. Oh well, I like the Prince pick.

The dilemma was Amukamara, Gabbert or trade down. We nearly had a deal in place with the GM of Detroit that would've dropped us to #13 where we would've targeted Cameron Jordan or Aldon Smith. The deal fell through and without anyone trying to move up to get Gabbert we decided to go with Amukamara.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733 (Post 2584305)
Dont like trading up for a QB. If we draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd, fine but I wouldnt trade up for any of them. This year is basically 2005 all over again in regards to us needing a QB but unlike 2005, I would stay away and wait until FA starts and go after Packers Flynn and Bucs Johnson.

This is where we disagree. The 49ers have 12 selections and we felt it was smarft to move up a few spots in order to GUARANTEE the QB we wanted, and it only cost us a mid 4th-rounder to do so. I feel it was a strong and decisive move. You value Free Agency so much more than me it isn't even funny so there is ZERO chance I would "wait for FA" to address a QB. I feel I got the best WCO QB in the draft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733 (Post 2584305)
Would have preferred that NT Ellis in the second. Personally, I think that after CB, NT is our biggest need defensively and while QB beats both, the difference is that there's a far lower risk in regards to CB and NT instead of QB. Plus, our defense needs that massive body to replace Franklin.

As I mentioned earlier I don't feel that NT is as glaring as you make it out to be. Franklin can still be resigned. Ricky Jean Francois could very well become the NT of the future. It is a position that typically takes a few years to adapt to and RJF is just now entering his 2nd season at the position. Also, Isaac Sopoaga could play NT in a pinch. That's 3 guys that are capable of playing the position which removes any drastic "need" that you perceive.

As for Kenrick Ellis... At 6'5+" I don't see him as a plugger. I actually like him MUCH more as a 5-tech than a 0-Tech. His height could drastically hurt the leverage needed to clog the middle. Think Albert Haynesworth. Not quite NT, but not really a 5-Tech, either. Besides that, I didn't value him over Christian Ponder and he was taken prior to our 3rd round selection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan77733 (Post 2584305)
Dont like drafting a TE or a WR period. Only receiver I have any interest in is Green and thats only if Peterson and Prince are both gone by 7.

If AJ Green is "the only WR" you "have any interest in" then I am sorry. The WR position is tremendously deep this year. There are MANY WRs that could contribute. As for the need, I went based on two factors. One, the WR's Harbaugh has brought in are large-bodied ones. Secondly, the WCO is based on strong receivers that have strong bodies and good RAC ability. I considered several other WRs at earlier parts in the draft but none worked out. I feel that Courtney Smith has tremendous potential as the big-bodied RAC weapon we need in the new WCO.

As for the TE's, I don't feel it is a need, either. However, Harbaugh has already brought 3 TE's in for workouts. Since he obviously seems to want to add a TE to the roster, I thought I'd add one that was versatile and had great RAC ability. The value of Housler (who's ceiling is ridiculous) was a no-brainer in the 7th as the run on TE's like Virgil Green, Charles Clay and Julius Thomas hadjust completed.

Again, thanks for your comments dan and I hope I addressed your concerns with my remarks.

dan77733 04-28-2011 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac (Post 2584400)
Drafting 2 RBs was definitely a dilemma. However we felt that Lewis' value was too much to pass up in the late 6th. He's the pass receiving threat out of the backfield that the 49ers don't have if Gore were to go down. The competition between Dixon, Thomas, and Lewis will be very interesting and with Gore's injury history, I'd rather a player like Dion Lewis taking up a roster spot than a player like Chris Maragos.

No NT until the 7th? Two reasons. I don't think that NT is nearly the need that you do. Secondly, I wasn't going to reach for a need. I really tried to stick to drafting players at good value. In that instance, all of the NT prospects (of which there are VERY few) were all taken prior to my rankings. I'm VERY happy with the NT that I selected.

The dilemma was Amukamara, Gabbert or trade down. We nearly had a deal in place with the GM of Detroit that would've dropped us to #13 where we would've targeted Cameron Jordan or Aldon Smith. The deal fell through and without anyone trying to move up to get Gabbert we decided to go with Amukamara.

This is where we disagree. The 49ers have 12 selections and we felt it was smarft to move up a few spots in order to GUARANTEE the QB we wanted, and it only cost us a mid 4th-rounder to do so. I feel it was a strong and decisive move. You value Free Agency so much more than me it isn't even funny so there is ZERO chance I would "wait for FA" to address a QB. I feel I got the best WCO QB in the draft.

As I mentioned earlier I don't feel that NT is as glaring as you make it out to be. Franklin can still be resigned. Ricky Jean Francois could very well become the NT of the future. It is a position that typically takes a few years to adapt to and RJF is just now entering his 2nd season at the position. Also, Isaac Sopoaga could play NT in a pinch. That's 3 guys that are capable of playing the position which removes any drastic "need" that you perceive.

As for Kenrick Ellis... At 6'5+" I don't see him as a plugger. I actually like him MUCH more as a 5-tech than a 0-Tech. His height could drastically hurt the leverage needed to clog the middle. Think Albert Haynesworth. Not quite NT, but not really a 5-Tech, either. Besides that, I didn't value him over Christian Ponder and he was taken prior to our 3rd round selection.

If AJ Green is "the only WR" you "have any interest in" then I am sorry. The WR position is tremendously deep this year. There are MANY WRs that could contribute. As for the need, I went based on two factors. One, the WR's Harbaugh has brought in are large-bodied ones. Secondly, the WCO is based on strong receivers that have strong bodies and good RAC ability. I considered several other WRs at earlier parts in the draft but none worked out. I feel that Courtney Smith has tremendous potential as the big-bodied RAC weapon we need in the new WCO.

As for the TE's, I don't feel it is a need, either. However, Harbaugh has already brought 3 TE's in for workouts. Since he obviously seems to want to add a TE to the roster, I thought I'd add one that was versatile and had great RAC ability. The value of Housler (who's ceiling is ridiculous) was a no-brainer in the 7th as the run on TE's like Virgil Green, Charles Clay and Julius Thomas hadjust completed.

Again, thanks for your comments dan and I hope I addressed your concerns with my remarks.

I agree with you in regards to seeing a RB get the roster spot over say Maragros but at the same time, with 11 draft picks, chances are the 6th and 7th rounders will be on the PS for 2011 if they dont get signed by another team.

I'll answer the NT parts here - NT is a HUGE need because Franklin is as good as gone and Sopoaga will be an UFA in 2012 plus he'll be 30 in September meaning that by 2012, he'll be 31. Basically, another Franklin but not as good or effective. Without a dominant NT, we'll be in the same position that we were in before Franklin. Bad enough that we dont have a pass rushing OLB but without a NT is even worse. Our defense is going to decline in 2011 especially since its a transitional year if we dont have A) a CB, B) a NT and C) a pass rushing OLB. Being able to draft two of the three would be great. I think Ellis is a perfect prototypical NT and worth drafting in the 2nd. I dont think his height would be a negative at all. If anything, it would be a positive. After all, he's around 350lbs or so. What C is going to move that? He'll be constantly double teamed.

Agree with you on drafting Prince instead of trading down.

Yeah, I definitely value FA more than you do and reasons as to why are simple. Unlike the players coming out of college, you already know if the player is good or not, has character concerns, his price, can go after him since he's available as opposed to the draft when the player you want could already be gone. In other words, you already know the information you need to know in order to make a decision on whether or not that player is worth the price he's asking.

As for Ponder, I wouldnt be pissed if Harbaugh drafts him but in no way shape or form would I trade away my 2nd and 3rd to move back into the first for him because when you look at the history of teams trading back into the first round for a QB, the percentages are horrible and not in the team's favor and no way in hell would I draft a QB at 7 period. I do agree with you about trading up to get the guy you wanted. Its just not something I would do in regards to QB.

Green is the only receiver I have any interest in because we have Crabtree, Morgan, Zeigler, Ginn and Williams. Drafting a WR in the 7th will most likely just lead to him being on the PS. Granted, Morgan is an UFA in 2012 and we'll need a replacement for him but unless that 7th rounder turns out to be another Colston, he'll be nothing more than a player on the practie squad and developmental guy. TE is the same for me. Those late rounders usually turn out to be PS/developmental guys.

In closing, I wouldnt mind trading away draft picks as im definitely in favor of quality of quantity. With that being said, while I dont agree with your mock draft, I understand it and I'll give you a B-. :)

PatrickWillis 10-27-2011 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac (Post 2584269)
Here are the selections footballfan098 and myself made. I'd appreciate any feedback.




1(7) Prince Amukamara - Cornerback - Nebraska



2(39)* Christian Ponder - Quarterback - Florida State



3(76) Dontay Moch - Outside Linebacker - Nevada



4(115) Daniel Thomas - Running Back - Kansas State



5(141) Chimdi Chekwa - Cornerback - Ohio State



6(174) Cedric Thronton - Defensive End - Southern Arkansas



6(190) Dion Lewis - Running Back - Pittsburgh



7(211) Rob Housler - Tight End - Florida Atlantic



7(231) Stanley Havili - Fullback - USC



7(239) Anthony Gray - Nose Tackle - Southern Mississippi



7(250) Courtney Smith - Wide Receiver - South Alabama



* - 49ers traded pick 2(45) and 4(108) to Tennessee Titans for 2(39)

Yeah good call on Amukamara....Not.

Verloren 10-27-2011 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatrickWillis (Post 2727369)
Yeah good call on Amukamara....Not.

Hindsight is 20/20.

phlysac 10-27-2011 10:29 PM

Was a collaboration. Read more closely...

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac (Post 2584400)
The dilemma was Amukamara, Gabbert or trade down. We nearly had a deal in place with the GM of Detroit that would've dropped us to #13 where we would've targeted Cameron Jordan or Aldon Smith.

You traded to 18. I wanted him at 13.

Madirishman 10-28-2011 12:41 AM

Aldon has been great in his limited role so far but it's WAY too early to judge Amukamara as an NFL player. The guy just got back from injury to practice this week. Let's see him play some games before we rush judgement.

PatrickWillis 10-28-2011 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac (Post 2727511)
Was a collaboration. Read more closely...



You traded to 18. I wanted him at 13.

I made my mock in late January. You made yours what, a day before the draft?

But besides, you think very highly of yourself and your scouting opinion yet fail pretty bad here. Had you asked me before the draft who I would rather have at 7, Aldon or Amukamara, I would have said Aldon every day and twice on sundays. You never take a corner in the top 10 unless you are POSITIVE he is an elite shut down guy. Amukamara is a nice corner in the mold of a Jonathan Joseph. Certainly not Revis. Pass rushers have a lot more stability in their play than corners do at this level.

So again....keep talking sh**t....Your opinion is useless.

phlysac 10-28-2011 09:59 AM

Yep. YOU "made" a mock. You controlled who you picked. This was a collaboration on a live mock with 32 different teams. Completely different animal.

But like I said before, Congratulations.

phlysac 10-28-2011 10:24 AM

But since you're prowd to boast I thought I'd remind you how much of a hypocrite you are.

Here's your big board THE SAME DAY you "called Aldon Smith"...

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatrickWillis (Post 2502861)
1) AJ green(my opinion is best player in the draft, regardless of need)
2) Peterson
3) Robert Quinn
4)Amukamara
5)Trade down.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...61#post2502861

I don't need to bring up how much you hated Cam Newton and how much you loved Pat Devlin.


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