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-   -   Last Year Mel Kiper Had to Adjust Draft Grade for the Raiders (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48808)

Black Bolt 09-27-2011 11:50 AM

Last Year Mel Kiper Had to Adjust Draft Grade for the Raiders
 
He admitted that he underrated their draft. Looks like he will be doing the exact same thing this year because this looks like another great class. Wiz looks like a ten year veteran, as does Denarius Moore, Barksdale looks great in the jumbo package and in the preseason, Jones is returning kicks and will break out during the season and Chekwa is about to be a starter.

bucfan12 09-27-2011 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 2692660)
He admitted that he underrated their draft. Looks like he will be doing the exact same thing this year because this looks like another great class. Wiz looks like a ten year veteran, as does Denarius Moore, Barksdale looks great in the jumbo package and in the preseason, Jones is returning kicks and will break out during the season and Chekwa is about to be a starter.

Mel Kiper and any dumb-nut on ESPN haven't got a clue what is going on with every team. I gurantee Kiper did no homework on a large portion of these prospects drafted by Oakland, just judging them on there past awful drafting.

Me Likey Rookies 09-28-2011 02:49 PM

I told my Raiders friend that I have my eye on Denarius and Taiwan on the 2nd day for the Bucs. He got both of them!!

descendency 09-28-2011 05:15 PM

This is exactly why I don't grade other teams drafts.

Hell, I gave bad grades to Solder and Ridley (who I gave an F-) two of which might be the best players the Patriots drafted.

Black Bolt 09-28-2011 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency (Post 2693855)
This is exactly why I don't grade other teams drafts.

Hell, I gave bad grades to Solder and Ridley (who I gave an F-) two of which might be the best players the Patriots drafted.


I thought Ridley was a great pick but I couldn't understand two RB picks that close.

PrimeTime 10-04-2011 12:18 PM

That's why I only try to grade my own team's draft... it's the only team I have a real feel for what their needs are.

CC.SD 10-04-2011 12:43 PM

dang it's true, Raiders are drafting really well lately, I hope this doesn't mean they will get above .500 in the next few years. Can I get a McClain update, I have heard conflicting reports but liked him as a prospect and haven't spotlighted him this year.

RealityCheck 10-08-2011 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency (Post 2693855)
This is exactly why I don't grade other teams drafts.

Hell, I gave bad grades to Solder and Ridley (who I gave an F-) two of which might be the best players the Patriots drafted.

Yeah, I cursed Belichick to death after he drafted Ridley. Turns out he's being pretty good.

EvilNixon 10-08-2011 08:16 AM

Moore is the 4th receiver when Murphy gets back..

EvilNixon 10-08-2011 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC.SD (Post 2700753)
dang it's true, Raiders are drafting really well lately, I hope this doesn't mean they will get above .500 in the next few years. Can I get a McClain update, I have heard conflicting reports but liked him as a prospect and haven't spotlighted him this year.

Looked great last year, and ok so far. No NT so he's having to shed blocks on any inside run.

Black Bolt 11-14-2011 09:22 AM

So how is that Wiz II pick looking now?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilNixon (Post 2703903)
Looked great last year, and ok so far. No NT so he's having to shed blocks on any inside run.

He played at C and simply dominated that Chargeless along with Stephon Heyer at LG with is our best lineup. And the draft experts were saying he was worth a low 2nd, high 3rd. I never got this one. Wiz is a legit 6'3", 315 with incredible football acumen. And don't look now, but Veldheer from the previous draft is playing like Pro Bowler.

Iamcanadian 11-14-2011 11:08 AM

Drafts are reappraised all the time. Who cares what rating a draft got till the players have been in the league for a few years and prove themselves one way or another.
Post draft ratings are for fools who think they can predict the future. Sometimes it takes years for a player to produce, see Eli and Alex Smith.

Black Bolt 11-14-2011 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian (Post 2748511)
Drafts are reappraised all the time. Who cares what rating a draft got till the players have been in the league for a few years and prove themselves one way or another.
Post draft ratings are for fools who think they can predict the future. Sometimes it takes years for a player to produce, see Eli and Alex Smith.

No, I get that, I just never got the low rating of Wiz II. It seems like people were under the impression that the only reason we picked up was because of the blood ties, ignoring the facts that a) we needed to improve our interior line and b) he was a very good, NFL ready draft prospect to begin with. This is not exactly a case of a draft prospect taking 6 years to develop.

DraftSavant 11-14-2011 01:29 PM

Mel Kiper is a fan like you and me. Albeit, he has made a lot of good NFL contacts in recent years after burning bridges early in his career.

He deserves all the credit in the world for being the face of the NFL draft and popularizing it. But a qualified scout, he is not.

Abaddon 11-14-2011 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilNixon (Post 2703902)
Moore is the 4th receiver when Murphy gets back..

lol

Oops.

jsa230 11-14-2011 05:05 PM

**** MEL KIPER!!!!!!!!!!!

If he was a GM he would make Millen look like Belichek.

Abaddon 11-14-2011 05:32 PM

Scott gets grumpy when y'all talk about his daddy like that.

TheSlinger 11-14-2011 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsa230 (Post 2749076)
**** MEL KIPER!!!!!!!!!!!

If he was a GM he would make Millen look like Belichek.

Considering Belichick is a terrible GM... this doesn't make much sense.

PossibleCabbage 11-14-2011 06:27 PM

I don't know if it's ever necessary for Kiper to adjust a draft grade, since he basically gives everybody 'A's and 'B's anyway.

Here's Kiper's distribution of grades from last year: 2 A-, 7 B+, 6 B, 4 B-, 8 C+, 2 C, 1 C-, and 1 D+. The GPA of the entire NFL is a 2.66 (which is a B-). Everybody's doing great, according to Mel.

(This is not specifically a slight against Mr. Kiper, almost everybody who grades drafts gives unrealistically generous grades like that, it's one of the reasons I don't like giving letter grades to drafts.)

JohnCandy 11-14-2011 06:33 PM

Just take the extra away from their draft grade this year.

DraftSavant 11-14-2011 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnCandy (Post 2749262)
Just take the extra away from their draft grade this year.

Made me lol at work.

LonghornsLegend 11-14-2011 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 2694048)
I thought Ridley was a great pick but I couldn't understand two RB picks that close.

Demarco Murray was just saying a few days ago in an interview he really thought New England was going to draft him. He made more sense then taking those 2 backs and that's not hind sight at all. He catches the ball extremely well and was thicker then Vereen to be able to handle the load and more explosive then Ridley.


Oakland has been doing well lately though. Lamarr Houston is an absolute animal and as versatily as they come.

Abaddon 11-16-2011 01:39 AM

2011
Stefen Wisniewski - Equally adept as a guard or center. All around solid player. Outstanding in the screen game. Very good at getting to the second level. Pepsi Rookie of the Week for week 3.

DeMarcus Van Dyke/Chimdi Chekwa - Both have shown promise. DVD is excellent at getting in a receiver's hip pocket and shadowing him downfield. Awareness is gradually improving.

Denarius Moore - Pepsi Rookie of the Week for week 2 and a contender this week. Absolutely the steal of the 2011 draft. Already a true #1 receiver. Carson Palmer's go-to guy.

The rest of this draft is a work in progress. But to get two outstanding starters in a class where you have no 1st round pick, that's pretty good.


2010
Rolando McClain -Has his moments. Seems much better now that Oakland has started 2-gapping more. Al Davis demanded a 1 gap scheme regardless of personnel. He's no longer a hindrance, so McClain has a chance to make some hay.

Lamarr Houston - A stud as a run defending DE. Can pressure the QB from the edge, but rarely closes the deal. As an interior penetrator, you can see his true potential. Eventually, he'll be a full time DT and should excel. Gotta love the guy's hustle.

Jared Veldheer - Already among the league's best LTs. A beastly run blocker. Major steal.

Jacoby Ford - Top flight kick returner and big play WR. Fights for the football. Versatile playmaker who pairs extremely well with Denarius Moore.

The rest of this draft is a wash. But this draft produced four quality starters. Gotta love this class, even if McClain proves to have been overdrafted.


It gets a little hairy if you go back any farther. But for two consecutive drafts, the Raiders appear to have struck gold. Damn shame they don't have the draft picks to continue this trend. Their compensatory picks really need to be homeruns.

whatadai 11-16-2011 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abaddon (Post 2751177)
It gets a little hairy if you go back any farther.

What?

2009 is overshadowed by DHB, but the Raiders got great players in that draft. Even DHB was starting to show his potential...until Palmer took over, but we'll see what happens with Ford out now.

Michael Mitchell wasn't overdrafted in my opinion. He hits hard as advertised and is a better coverage safety than Tyvon Branch, who hasn't improved much on his coverage in the past 3 years.

Matt Shaughnessy is our best pass rushing DE and one of the most underrated DEs in the league.

Louis Murphy has proven to be a good WR3/4 at worst and his 3412341324 injuries were all to different parts of his body and none were very serious, the only problem with him as of now is that he's shown he's horrible at recovering from them.

Brandon Myers is also a above average blocking tightend...ask Run DMC and Bush.

That's what? 5/7 picks still with the team after 3 years and will still be with the team in their 4th year with a lot of potential.

2008 included Run DMC, Tyvon Branch, Trevor Scott, Chaz Schilens(Like Louis Murphy). Considering Chaz is a 7th round pick and Branch and Scott were mid-round picks that draft was pretty good too.

Yes, the Raiders could have gotten much better value in these drafts...but you can say that about any team, at least the Raiders don't have complete bust drafts like 2007 and earlier and their players are turning out to be players that will last in the NFL for years. Not only that...their huge steals recently. Michael Bush came from the 2007 draft too so it wasn't all ****.

Abaddon 11-16-2011 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatadai (Post 2751192)
Michael Mitchell wasn't overdrafted in my opinion.

This one sentence discredits everything else you've said in this post, and possibly everything you'll ever say, to anyone, for the rest of your life.

Quote:

Matt Shaughnessy is our best pass rushing DE and one of the most underrated DEs in the league.
Shags is a stud. He was literally the only good pick of that draft.

Quote:

Louis Murphy has proven to be a good WR3/4 at worst and his 3412341324 injuries were all to different parts of his body and none were very serious, the only problem with him as of now is that he's shown he's horrible at recovering from them.
Murphy has flashed in previous seasons. But, he can't stay healthy, drops far too many passes, and looks like Johnny Lee Higgins out there. Dude hears footsteps now. I don't see him rebounding.

Quote:

Brandon Myers is also a above average blocking tightend...ask Run DMC and Bush.
I just asked both, and they agree that Khalif Barnes is a far superior blocking TE, and just about equal in terms of receiving ability.

You can't expect much from a 6th round pick, which is good. Myers hasn't done much. Myers is so good, Oakland went out and drafted 2 TEs and signed one more. Dude's on borrowed time now.

Quote:

That's what? 5/7 picks still with the team after 3 years and will still be with the team in their 4th year with a lot of potential.
Weak, weak argument when you're trying to prop up Darius Heyward-One-Route and Brandon freaking Myers.

Quote:

2008 included Run DMC, Tyvon Branch, Trevor Scott, Chaz Schilens(Like Louis Murphy). Considering Chaz is a 7th round pick and Branch and Scott were mid-round picks that draft was pretty good too.
McFadden is awesome for 10 games a year now that he finally isn't god awful.

You're pimping Branch here after tearing him down to pimp Mitchell? Yikes. He looked promising as a rookie. Was absolutely embarrassing last year. This year, he has in fact gotten better in coverage, but he's still not a guy you point to and say "We're set at SS."

Scott was a good nickel guy before his injury, but he's looking pretty useless ever since. He's always been atrocious in run defense.

I'm trying very hard not to laugh at anyone who mentions Chaz Schilens as a successful draft pick. I must admit that I'm failing. Helluva blocking WR, I guess.

Quote:

Yes, the Raiders could have gotten much better value in these drafts...but you can say that about any team, at least the Raiders don't have complete bust drafts like 2007 and earlier and their players are turning out to be players that will last in the NFL for years. Not only that...their huge steals recently. Michael Bush came from the 2007 draft too so it wasn't all ****.
Like I said, the drafts prior to the last two are not at all on the level of these last two. The DHB/Mitchell picks only serve to highlight just how terrible an uncontested Al Davis could be on draft day.


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