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-   -   Joe Paterno fired (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49398)

JoeJoeBrown 11-06-2011 10:19 AM

Joe Paterno fired
 
He knew that Sandusky was raping little boys and said nothing about it to the police. He reported it to the ad a week after being told. Holy crap that is just wrong.

The incidents are so many that it boggles the mind that the PSU administration sat on this info. Infuriating.

Report is not for the weak of stomach.

Smooth Criminal 11-06-2011 10:23 AM

Thrown in jail is a little far, he did follow the letter of the law.

However, that's not enough for me. He knew about this and didn't see to it that the bastard end up in jail. He didn't do his moral duty and that's enough for me to get him booted from his job. There's no way he should be allowed to coach another game after this. How a recruit, or a recruits mom, could ever trust him to look out for the players best interest is beyond me.

And its not just him. Anyone at any level that knew about this and didn't make sure that this guy was thrown in jail or castrated needs to get their morals checked.

Ngatachance92 11-06-2011 10:26 AM

Did Chris Hanson already call dibs on his first interview from prison?

JoeJoeBrown 11-06-2011 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal (Post 2737129)
Thrown in jail is a little far, he did follow the letter of the law.

Actually he didn't follow the law. Nor did mcQueary (the ga that walked in on Sandusky). PA law dictates that you must report suspected child abuse to the police or child protective services.

I agree with your other point about moral obligation.

Sandusky was investigated in 1998 for showering with boys. That is very likely why he left the team in 99. The guy had boys sleep in his room at the team hotel before games.

JoePa had known about this for a long time. He's been friends with the guy for over 40 years. Completely messed up.

Rabscuttle 11-06-2011 10:46 AM

Holy ******* hell should be rained down on the lot of them. Penn State shouldn't have a fan in the seats until the school cleans house.

Good people need to make it known that they won't associate with or support an organization involved in protecting pedophiles.

These people were more concerned with reputation than protecting children and doing right and Penn State and visiting fans can make it clear where they stand on this.

WCH 11-06-2011 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabscuttle (Post 2737151)
Holy ******* hell should be rained down on the lot of them. Penn State shouldn't have a fan in the seats until the school cleans house.

Good people need to make it known that they won't associate with or support an organization involved in protecting pedophiles.

These people were more concerned with reputation than protecting children and doing right and Penn State and visiting fans can make it clear where they stand on this.

I agree. They could have tried to put a stop to this more than ten years ago. Instead they let this scum continue to not just walk the streets, but to run a ******* organization for at-risk boys? Despicable.

At the very least, Paterno should resign or be fired.

FUNBUNCHER 11-06-2011 12:24 PM

Talk about permanently ******* up your coaching legacy.
This will follow Jo Pa to his grave.

Smooth Criminal 11-06-2011 12:25 PM

And instead Penn State will be paying the legal fees of all of their employees that need representation.

LonghornsLegend 11-06-2011 12:44 PM

This is extremely disgusting and disturbing. If fans there care more about football and legacy then this I don't know what to say about that, but there is NO reason he shouldn't be fired. NONE. This stains that program in a big way, and should for a very long time.

Ngatachance92 11-06-2011 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER (Post 2737274)
Talk about permanently ******* up your coaching legacy.
This will follow Jo Pa to his grave.

Maybe it should be carried to his grave sooner rather than later.

JoeJoeBrown 11-06-2011 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend (Post 2737335)
This is extremely disgusting and disturbing. If fans there care more about football and legacy then this I don't know what to say about that, but there is NO reason he shouldn't be fired. NONE. This stains that program in a big way, and should for a very long time.

Yes, this is an athletic department issue. They covered up the activity. This was a known behavior for a long time, probably much longer than can be proved.

The guy started a charity in 1981 for kids. He's been accused of molesting kids since 1996. I doubt that it started then.

Also, take note that the lawyer that handled the 1998 PSU investigation into Sandusky showering with little boys is now the lead counsel for Sandusky's charity.

So the guy that let Sandusky go is now his legal guru.

The AD and a PSU VP of finance ignored the allegations and only forbade Sandusky from bringing children to campus.

McQueary and JoePa didn't report the incident to police.

Sandusky had boys sleep in his room before games. This was known by people in the program. It's not like he was sneaking them in there.

Doesn't Sandusky's charity sound a lot like there's a chance that it was a pedophile ring? And that these guys knew about it?

So freaking dirty. This goes way beyond sports, the games are so insignificant at this point. The PSU athletic department was a highly corrupt and amoral organization that was supposedly in the business of improving the lives of young men and women.

Instead they letting a rapist run free in their midst.

What's even crazier is only NOW does the administration ban Sandusky from campus.

I want PSU suspended from the B1G until they clean house. Everyone.

I hope that most of their alumni don't show up to games and raise holy hell until those scumbags are gone.

ElectricEye 11-06-2011 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend (Post 2737335)
This is extremely disgusting and disturbing. If fans there care more about football and legacy then this I don't know what to say about that, but there is NO reason he shouldn't be fired. NONE. This stains that program in a big way, and should for a very long time.

This. I think that some people will unfortunately gloss over the reality of this situation in lieu of what he means to the sport. It really doesn't get any worse than what some of the stuff coming out of these reports say. Legitimately no way to even mitigate what went on there. Of Paterno's involvement specifically, there's just no way I can see justifying keeping the guy around and not reporting what happened to the authorities. Say what you will about chain of command; but that's just ******* wrong. I doubt they "fire" him, but he'll certainly be encouraged into resigning, so no matter what you call it he'll have to go. As well as the people up at the top.

WCH 11-06-2011 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown (Post 2737395)
The AD and a PSU VP of finance ignored the allegations and only forbade Sandusky from bringing children to campus.

[...]

Doesn't Sandusky's charity sound a lot like there's a chance that it was a pedophile ring? And that these guys knew about it?

These are the two things that stand out to me. It does seem like he probably started that organization so that he could gain access to young boys. These weren't "crimes of opportunity." This guy was a true predator.

And the fact that PSU wouldn't let him bring these kids to campus -- these "wayward boys" from a friggin' charitable organization -- that tells me that they knew damn well what was going on, and they didn't care as long as he kept it off campus.

Fire everybody and let the police figure out how to proceed.

TimD 11-06-2011 01:11 PM

:(

say it aint so JoePa

Complex 11-06-2011 01:25 PM

Bobby Bowden was always the superior coach.Can the NCAA punish Penn State?


Maybe make the NCAA take it easy on Miami.

Trogdor 11-06-2011 01:35 PM

To be completely honest... JoePa performed his obligation in terms of reporting the incident he was told to the AD. He didn't have evidence of the events so he wasn't violating PA law when he didn't report as evidenced by the findings of the grand jury.

But if you need to build a straw-man out of JoePa go for it even though the situation has three despicable characters that don't need building.

This coming from someone who hasn't wanted JoePa has a HC for a few years now.

descendency 11-06-2011 01:40 PM

I don't know whether what Joe Pa did was right or wrong (obviously, it wasn't desirable in the situation), but he definitely did tell someone who was a higher level of authority about it. This is far more than JoePa's fault. (obviously, I mean the "cover-up" and not the actual sexual assault)

LonghornsLegend 11-06-2011 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown (Post 2737395)
Doesn't Sandusky's charity sound a lot like there's a chance that it was a pedophile ring?

This is exactly what it sounds like to me. And it went on for a very long time.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor (Post 2737512)
But if you need to build a straw-man out of JoePa go for it

Really? You think this story is building a straw-man? Please.

FUNBUNCHER 11-06-2011 01:48 PM

This IMO is beyond the jurisdiction of the NCAA. Paterno did have a moral obligation to pick up the phone and call State College Police and share his suspicions.

I understand the mindset of the PSU coaching staff; if there's a 'problem' occurring on the team you have one of two remedies generally speaking. Either you fire a coach or kick a player off the team, or you report it to the AD.

Sandusky was fired but more should have been done.
I don't think it was Paterno's responsibility to monitor Sandusky's activities after he left the program. But damn if you think the guy is still diddling little boys, call an anonymous tip to law enforcement.

Maybe this was done. Who knows.

For instance if Paterno discovered one of his assistants was a mid-level coke dealer selling to players and students at PSU, guaranteed he would have done more than 'report it' to the AD. He would have called the police himself if the AD didn't follow up.

Bulldogs 11-06-2011 01:49 PM

I literally felt like vomiting reading some of this stuff. This is sick. Get rid of them all, anybody that was involved during this period. How could you not report this stuff? I can't even fathom how much stuff went on that was also not caught by people.

Trogdor 11-06-2011 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend (Post 2737538)
This is exactly what it sounds like to me. And it went on for a very long time.





Really? You think this story is building a straw-man? Please.

Hate to get personal but.. READING COMPREHENSION. Read the entire post instead of a snippet and understand my point. That being the previous posts by a couple of OSU homers calling for JoePa's ousting and that he violated PA law by not reporting were incorrect and baseless claims aka 'building a straw-man'. The story is not an indictment of JoePa. It's an indictment of Sandusky, the AD, and a VP. It is horrendous and the fact that PSU is fronting the bill of the legal defense of the AD and VP is FAR more concerning than JoePa following protocol and reporting to higher authorities based on what he was being told by student-athletes.

Sheessssh.

ElectricEye 11-06-2011 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor (Post 2737512)
To be completely honest... JoePa performed his obligation in terms of reporting the incident he was told to the AD. He didn't have evidence of the events so he wasn't violating PA law when he didn't report as evidenced by the findings of the grand jury.

But if you need to build a straw-man out of JoePa go for it even though the situation has three despicable characters that don't need building.

How on earth is it making a strawman out of him? Sure he "performed his obligation", but this pederasty we're talking about. He's obligated to do far more than just notify the chain of command. As is the graduate assistant and his father, really. It's not like a few kids got caught taking money or anything. The sick part is that Penn State handled this situation like it was. The people who tried to cover it up should be held responsible, sure. The people who let it be covered up are just as guilty though. A situation like this is pretty black and white. Simply following procedure isn't good enough.

You're kidding yourself if you think this was an isolated incident too. The guy coached at Penn State for 30 years and was close to Paterno. The allegations go back almost that far. It's extremely hard to believe that no one had knowledge that this sort of thing was going on before the incident in 2002. Or at least suspicions.

JoeJoeBrown 11-06-2011 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor (Post 2737512)
To be completely honest... JoePa performed his obligation in terms of reporting the incident he was told to the AD. He didn't have evidence of the events so he wasn't violating PA law when he didn't report as evidenced by the findings of the grand jury.

But if you need to build a straw-man out of JoePa go for it even though the situation has three despicable characters that don't need building.

This coming from someone who hasn't wanted JoePa has a HC for a few years now.

JoePa knowing what was going on is not a strawman.

He knew that there was a shower investigation in 1998.

He knew that Sandusky had boys sleep in his room pre game.

He knew that McQueary saw Sandusky butt raping a 10 year old in the showers.

JoePa worked with and was friends with this guy for over 40 years.

JoePa is a piece of crap. He's a coward and so is McQueary. The fact that at least four people knew about this single incident and no one did a thing about it is indefensible for all of them.

Reporting the rape of a child by a non-employee in your locker room isn't something that you tell the AD about. You tell the cops.

EDIT:
This has nothing to do with being an OSU fan, btw. It has to do with being disgusted at a major organization for harming little kids and covering it up. It is unbelievable that this went on so long.

There is no reason for you to get defensive about JoePa. No PSU fan would have suspected this. It's how PSU alums react to this situation that is going to be telling. Preventing it was on the AD organization and that organization and the football org were complicit in the actions.

Separate yourself from the memories of a stupid game and realize that the whole lot need to be removed. Sports are minor here. They all need to be forced out, including Spanier for his bizarre reactions here.

Here are the people that are supposed to report child abuse to the authorities.

Quote:

Mandated Reporters

Persons required to report include but are not limited to:

A licensed physician, medical examiner, coroner, funeral director, dentist, optometrist, osteopath, chiropractor, psychologist, podiatrist, intern, registered nurse or licensed practical nurse.
Hospital personnel engaged in the admission, examination, care or treatment of persons.
A Christian Science practitioner, member of the clergy, school administrator, school teacher, school nurse, school librarian, social services worker, day care center worker or another child care or foster care worker, mental health professional, peace officer or law enforcement official.
JoePa could be considered both a school administrator and a teacher. He failed to report. He's likely not in trouble because he's JoePa and the AG worked out a deal for him to testify.

FUNBUNCHER 11-06-2011 02:16 PM

It probably didn't happen, but it's possible JoPa did contact law enforcement.
I'm reaching I know.

If a middle school teacher saw another teacher raping a student, of course they tell the principal. But most teachers are going to call the police first.

I can't think of anything worse for a HC not to step up and do absolutely the right thing by contacting police. Other than murder, child molestation is THE worst crime anyone would want associated with their program.

ESPN doesn't even know how to report this story, it's so toxic.

Grizzlegom 11-06-2011 02:17 PM

Just a little context, this all came out originally in 1998. As someone who has been following Penn State for a LONG time, the story came out in 98 and the police looked into an incident back then and he was promptly cleared of all charges. In no way am I defending the actions of anyone involved but JoePa did everything he was supposed to do, including forcing Sandusky into retirement. I fully believe Curley and the VP of Finance should be fired but there's no reason that this should affect JoePa's legacy, nor should it force him into retirement (many around the program felt this was his final year regardless of this incident so don't assume that if he retires it was because of this). As soon as he had any suspicions, he reported it to his superior and removed the coach from his coaching staff, how can you put any blame on him? Because he didn't report anything to the police who were already investigating Sandusky? C'mon man.


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