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-   -   Is Vontaze Burfict Overrated? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49675)

Buc Baller12 11-22-2011 06:00 PM

Is Vontaze Burfict Overrated?
 
mind you; i was a big Burfict fan before the year started; but after watching him play this year i am a bit skeptical; i had him graded as a early 1st rounder but at best i see him as a mid 1st from that 17-20 range. I love the nasty demanor but he needs to learn how to control himself; he needs a fine coach in the pros. From what i have seen he plays undiscplined poor gap control; always out of place; roams around too much

shylo3716 11-22-2011 06:06 PM

We want him!!!!




Sloopy 11-22-2011 06:21 PM

This is already a thread, use your search function and bump it.

cajuncorey 11-22-2011 11:48 PM

anybody that gets called ray lewis is overated

bigbuc 11-23-2011 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cajuncorey (Post 2761143)
anybody that gets called ray lewis is overated

YES!!!!!!!

Razor 11-23-2011 05:18 AM

He might be, but you can't deny his talent. I wouldn't mind us drafting him and have him play over Spikes or even converting Taze to OLB. The guy can play and I love his demeanor on the field.

phlysac 11-23-2011 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cajuncorey (Post 2761143)
anybody that gets called ray lewis is overated

Unless you're reading a Patrick Willis scouting report from 2006-2007

;P

SolidGold 11-23-2011 08:40 AM

Yup, he is a hard hitting walking 15 yd penalty with a weird name that attracts attention.

Sloopy 11-23-2011 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold (Post 2761304)
Yup, he is a hard hitting walking 15 yd penalty with a weird name that attracts attention.

Alright, since we aren't bumping the other thread I'll give my .02:

If you go by standards of people calling him the next Ray Lewis, then yes, he's overrated. This isn't a knock on him though; it's similar to how people are calling Luck a sure fire HoF. There is just no way to know if Taze will live up to the Ray Lewis billing.

However, Taze is much more than a hard hitting walking 15 yard penalty. He is probably one of the more technically sound ILB in this class, great ability shedding blocks and moving through traffic. Is extremely quick into the backfield when called on to blitz. He does have solid tackling technique despite his hard hitting ways. Amazing side-line to side-line speed. Awesome instincts. Solid enough for an ILB in coverage. EXTREMELY ATHLETIC, absolutely a top physical specimen in this draft.

Yes he has caused penalties but for every dumb penalty he makes he gets one for reputation alone. Overall, if you DON'T want Taze on your team, your a fool

SolidGold 11-23-2011 09:12 AM

I'd take Keuchly over Burfict. Burfict does make some impact plays but he doesn't play very disciplined football. Also, he has not lived up to the hype around him.

Sloopy 11-23-2011 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold (Post 2761318)
I'd take Keuchly over Burfict. Burfict does make some impact plays but he doesn't play very disciplined football. Also, he has not lived up to the hype around him.

I think that some of his disappearances this year have actually come from him tying to rein in his emotions a bit. Once he finds that balance I imagine he will pick right back up.

However my rankings do go

1.Burfict
2. Kuechly
3. T'eo

So i give you that Kuechly is no consolation prize either, he's the real deal and I would be just as happy having him on my team. Really they aren't far away from each other as far as value in the draft, just different kind of prospects.

JBCX 11-23-2011 11:10 AM

WAYYYY overrated.

This guy has a million dollar body and a ten-cent head. Any team that picks him in the first round will be grossly disappointed and likely have a bust on their hands.

SenorGato 11-23-2011 11:14 AM

He was always at best a mid-late first....too wild and crazy, not enough polish....that said with proper coaching he'll be a better pro than college player....would make one hell of a replacement for Bart Scott.

JBCX 11-23-2011 11:15 AM

I wouldn't TOUCH him earlier than the 2nd round at this point. Way too many questions about his character, instincts, and drive. Too raw to be a first-rounder, imho. In addition, LB prospects seemingly always fall in the draft due to their positional importance (or lack thereof).

killxswitch 11-23-2011 11:19 AM

It seems like any good player from a known school will eventually be overrated because of the ease of access to scouting reports and the voice that the internet gives to anybody that wants to spout off with his opinion.

Sloopy 11-23-2011 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBCX (Post 2761361)
WAYYYY overrated.

This guy has a million dollar body and a ten-cent head. Any team that picks him in the first round will be grossly disappointed and likely have a bust on their hands.

WOW AWESOME SCOUTING REPORT BRO!!!!!

I love that you used information to back up your argument... oh wait... nvm

For what reason will any team be grossly disappointed?

Why is he way overrated?


Quote:

Originally Posted by JBCX (Post 2761368)
I wouldn't TOUCH him earlier than the 2nd round at this point. Way too many questions about his character, instincts, and drive. Too raw to be a first-rounder, imho. In addition, LB prospects seemingly always fall in the draft due to their positional importance (or lack thereof).

Actually his instincts and drive are the best part of his game. He has arguably the best instincts of any of the top 3 ILB prospects.

Don't just come into a thread and post stuff about a guy without A. supporting your opinion and B. don't state things that are simply untrue as some sort of quantifying evidence

BigBanger 11-23-2011 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweater-vest_mafia (Post 2761409)
WOW AWESOME SCOUTING REPORT BRO!!!!!

I love that you used information to back up your argument... oh wait... nvm

For what reason will any team be grossly disappointed?

Why is he way overrated?

Information to backup a point. Okay...

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweater-vest_mafia (Post 2761409)
Actually his instincts and drive are the best part of his game. He has arguably the best instincts of any of the top 3 ILB prospects.

WOW AWESOME SCOUTING REPORT BRO!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweater-vest_mafia (Post 2761409)
Don't just come into a thread and post stuff about a guy without A. supporting your opinion and B. don't state things that are simply untrue as some sort of quantifying evidence

You gave your two cents earlier and provided nothing to support your claims that he's good at anything you mentioned. Those were blanket statements that appear to be false. Yet you pass them off as fact. Take a bit of your own advice and try to be a little less biased.

Sloopy 11-23-2011 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBanger (Post 2761446)
Information to backup a point. Okay...


WOW AWESOME SCOUTING REPORT BRO!!!!!



You gave your two cents earlier and provided nothing to support your claims that he's good at anything you mentioned. Those were blanket statements that appear to be false. Yet you pass them off as fact. Take a bit of your own advice and try to be a little less biased.

I stated my own observations, not just that he was bad or not worth a 1st round pick, I think he's worth a first round pick and stated why.

Meanwhile you fail to even have a point, so not quite sure why your here.

I mean unless it's because your just looking to fight or being a troll; what do you think of the actual topic at hand or do you have none?

BaLLiN 11-23-2011 01:21 PM

Part of me is skewed because I am enthralled with his nasty demeanor, unrelenting pursuit, instincts, and intensity to throw his body through the OL/blocker.

When he is not making the tackle, most of the time he is involved. Runners avoid running through his gap and he also uses the blocker to seal off running lanes, appearing blocked but maintaining his gap.

However, he has some faults. He does play too wild as most have mentioned and looks like he abandons some responsibilities. IMO he is only average in coverage, but I live on the east coast so I do not get to see much. He doesn't wrap up often, goes for big hits ALL THE TIME. He needs to become a tad more disciplined. We want controlled chaos, he isn't even remotely there yet.

As far as character concerns, I have not heard anything off the field. On the field it is clear that referees have a bias against him due to his track record of cheap hits, nastiness, and probably opposing players/coaches complaining. He may have a screw loose, but sometimes you need one of those on your team in order to get fired up.

All in all, I would pick him first among the linebackers in this draft because of his ability to be an X factor. Kuechly and Te'o are both very good players, but i have not seen the kind of fire i see in Burfict in them.

TheSlinger 11-23-2011 01:42 PM

Quote:

Awesome instincts. Solid enough for an ILB in coverage.
I really disagree with these. I think his instincts suck. I think he freelances and often ignores his gap assignments. I also think he's often disinterested in coverage.

Sloopy 11-23-2011 01:45 PM

Here you go Big Banger



Snap #1 Burfict gets in position to make the tackle and then pushes the pile when other tacklers latch on to the runner. Exactly what you want your 3-4 ILB to do.

Snap #2 gets in the lane and hits the runner low, runner gets away but is off balance and goes down shortly after

Snap #3 Gets of the blocker with ease and attempts to go low, misses a tackle here.

Snap # 4 gets by blocker and positions himself for tackle, doesn't over pursue makes gang tackle.

Through all of these he has gone low and attempted to make the tackle instead of going for the big hit, he squares up and makes the tackle.

Snap #5 get blocked low and goes down

Snap #6 doesn't bite on pump fake sees the screen play, gets off the blocker and would have blown up the screen play had the player actually caught the ball.

Snap #7 shows patients and squares up the runner to make the form tackle

Fg attempt, goes offsides.

Snap #8 Team gets a sack

Snap #9 gets off blocker and moves through traffic to tackle the runner

Snap #10 does not bight on pass action and maintains his zone

Snap #11 gets off the block but the runner is by him to the other side

Snap #12 shows patience and seals the cut back, squaring up and making the tackle

Snap #13 gets off his blocker, credited with tackle as the runner trips up (Still would have been in position)

Snap #14 makes the pre snap read, gets off the chip to his underneath zone and makes the athletic play to get the interception returns ball for about 35 yards

Then that maniac helps Barkley to his feet, omg so crazy

Snap #15 maintains a zone reads QB's eyes and moves into position to make the tackle on the receiver

Snap #16 comes through unblocked with a burst into the backfield and makes the gang tackle, pushes the pile.

Snap #17 does not bit on play action and makes the tackle on the receiver

Snap #18 after the catch takes appropriate angle on receiver to make the tackle

Snap #19 gets off blocker but fails to get there in time to make the tackle

Snap #20 gets blocked while trying to make the tackle

Snap #21 stuffs the gap and the run play ends.

Snap #22 gets off the blocker and stone walls the runner at the goal line

Snap #23 gets off the block a little late but still makes the tackle, could have made it earlier if he had been able to disengage sooner

Snap #24 fills the gap but runner cuts back to the outside

Snap #25 plays his zone makes tackle on the receiver after the catch.

Snap # 26 gets held could have made the play on the ball

Snap #27 reads the gets a little hindered by the low block but gets off it, incomplete pass

Do you want to waste any more of my time or do you feel sufficiently foolish?

Sloopy 11-23-2011 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSlinger (Post 2761498)
I really disagree with these. I think his instincts suck. I think he freelances and often ignores his gap assignments. I also think he's often disinterested in coverage.

Farthest thing from the truth, go watch the tape I just posted, he maintains his gaps on every play makes form tackles and pushes piles.

As far as pass coverage, again watch the tape he maintains his zones and does not bight on pass coverage. He reads the QB's eyes and moves to where the ball is thrown before its even released.

Diehard 11-23-2011 02:23 PM

I think he has the ability to do very well at ILB at the next level, but he's still a little overrated as his wild/crazy side tends to draw attention (both positive and negative).

I think he'd do best going to a team that has strong defensive leadership that can instill some discipline and focus his intensity.

Sloopy 11-23-2011 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diehard (Post 2761531)
I think he has the ability to do very well at ILB at the next level, but he's still a little overrated as his wild/crazy side tends to draw attention (both positive and negative).

I think he'd do best going to a team that has strong defensive leadership that can instill some discipline and focus his intensity.

He may still be overrated, but it's not to say that he isn't good as others would imply. I think he's still a solid first round pick, would love to get him on the Ravens, if it were the case he might actually live up to the Ray Lewis hype as he would be getting schooled by the Reverend Ray Lewis himself

SF Dolphin Fan 11-24-2011 10:33 AM

He may not be Ray Lewis, but his ability to blow up a play will help defenses get off the field at the next level. He should be a difference maker and fall somewhere between Brian Cox and Ray Lewis.


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