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-   -   Discuss the "Other" QBs (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49757)

onejayhawk 11-28-2011 09:07 AM

Discuss the "Other" QBs
 
There are four concensus top QB: Luck, Barkley, RG III, Landry Jones. We also have threads on Tannehill and Wilson.

Here is a place to talk about the rest: Foles, Moore, Keenum, Weedon, etc.

J

Spaceboy1 11-28-2011 09:10 AM

Foles has nice size but struggled to win games.
Keenum is a winner with it factor, but lacks size and big name competition.
Moore lacks arm strength and size, but wins.
Weeden is old. lol

FUNBUNCHER 11-28-2011 09:52 AM

Foles has the most potential IMO of the 2nd tier QBs. All the tools, just needs to sharpen up his decision making.

Tannehill could be a find but he needs to carry a clipboard for a couple years and learn the game.
Both these guys could end up being bonafide top 15 NFL starters in 3-4 years if they aren't rushed into playing too soon.

bucfan12 11-28-2011 10:07 AM

Moore is a career back up that can come in and spot start you t oa victory or two. He may not possess all the physical tools, but he's srmart and very accurate.

Foles has potentila to be a starter in this league, but it's hard to get a read on him.

Spaceboy1 11-28-2011 10:07 AM

Moore reminds me of the Palko kid now starting for Kansas City, but probably better.

jrdrylie 11-28-2011 10:12 AM

Foles is a poor man's Blaine Gabbert. Both have terrible pocket presence. They freak out when there is even the slightest hint of pressure. But at least Gabbert has really good tools to work with. In the right situation, I could see Foles eventually being a starter. If Indianapolis trades out of the top spot, I like the fit of Foles sitting behind Manning for three years.

Moore is a smart kid who should never step foot on an NFL field as a player. He should play in his bowl game and immediately go into coaching. I think he would do great there compared to being a Practice Squad or Third String QB.

Weeden is better than Chris Weinki. I could see him being picked in round 3 or 4. He'll probably end up being a career backup who will end up starting a few games here or there.

jth1331 11-28-2011 10:35 AM

It wouldn't surprise me if Weeden was picked in round 3 to a team with a great QB that is need of a backup QB. This year has shown people how much you need to have a quality backup.

FUNBUNCHER 11-28-2011 10:38 AM

Foles is a better passer than Gabbert. He looks more comfortable dropping back and making his reads than Gabby ever did at Mizzou IMO.
Foles can be streaky good throwing the football, but sometimes he makes boneheaded decisions that look clueless in post game film study.

And Gabbert's physical tools are overrated to an extent because he can't translate them to on field performance. Gabbert has elite tools for a QB, including mobility. His straightline speed is just a tick slower than Cam Newton's but I would never really call Gabbert a mobile QB.
(Still kind of hoping Gabbert just needs time to put it all together).

Foles at least looks like he knows how to play the game at a high level.

HorusKing 11-28-2011 10:38 AM

Nick Foles has the most potential of the 4 mentioned he has the arm strength and has plenty of games under his belt I think he needs more time under the center he is a solid 3 rounder IMO some one could get hasty and take him in the 2nd round but to me he is a 3rd round grade.

Grizzlegom 11-28-2011 11:44 AM

Weeden would be a top 10 pick if he wasn't so old. Still think he's being undersold by many in the draft community and think he'll be a late first to mid-2nd round pick.

Personally don't like Foles. I've got him as a fifth rounder. Inconsistent, poor accuracy, gets bailed out by his WRs more often than not, arm doesn't look as strong as people say it is.

Don't think Moore is draftable. Would be shocked if he was taken with anything higher than a 7th round flier.

Keenum's injuries, size and arm strength leave him as a late rounder at best as well. Colt Brennan 2.0?

I like Cousins a lot more than most. I think he's at worst a solid backup with potential to be a middle of the road starter. I'd use a late 2nd/3rd on him.

Lindley still has a cannon with a quick release but his mechanics and decision making still leave something to be desired. Still, he's got big upside and I'd take him in the 4th.

Patrick Witt will be the next Ivy League QB to be drafted, should go in the 6th.

Curious to see what Russell Wilson decides to do. Clearly his height will prevent him from being drafted high and there's still the chance he full-on commits to baseball but I wouldn't be surprised if a team looked at him late day 2 if he decides to stick with football. Maybe a good backup to Tebow?

princefielder28 11-28-2011 12:18 PM

Chandler Harnish doesn't get enough love. He's an experienced signal caller who has very good mobility and has a natural throwing motion with an adequate arm. He compares best to Dan LeFevour as a prospect with the ability to be a better passer thanks to not be mechnically chanllenged with his arm.

Nick Foles is pure garbage at the quarterback position. His stats are inflated by playing in the spread attack. He makes very few NFL caliber throws and his passes float far too much to be able to attack an NFL defense.

ElectricEye 11-28-2011 07:59 PM

Foles is garbage. He'll get drafted because of height and production, but I doubt he ever really does anything meaningful in the NFL. Arm strength is meh, accuracy is overrated, and his footwork isn't a plus either.

I like Cousins quite a bit as a third or fourth round option for a team that's looking to develop a quality backup. I think he'll always be a AAAA player because he really just doesn't do anything special, but he's capable enough.


The guy I really want to talk about here is Ryan Lindley. There's some risk there(for a fourth round type anyway), but I really feel like he could be an absolute gem late into the game. As Grizz mentioned, he's got all the arm in the world and he can get it out in a hurry too. Don't let the statistic deceive you. His leading returning receiver coming into the season, Dominique Sandifer, had a whopping 23 catches the year before and tore his ACL...then the guy behind him they were excited about, Jay Wadell, tore his ACL as well. Really scraping the bottom of the bottom of the barrel there. The accuracy issues are legitimate, but he's better than the 53% passer the box score would tell you. He's also made better decisions this year and really worked well within the limitations of his offense, keeping the turnovers down. Out of all of these guys, I'm taking the guy with first round tools and not really looking back all that much. You obviously don't take him with the intention of starting him right away, but there's tons to work with. Nathan Enderle is probably a good starting point for him stock wise, but I've got him graded out as a better overall player with superior tools.

GaMeTiMe 11-28-2011 08:15 PM

You've got to love this QB class, but if RGIII, Jones and Barkley all go back, not so much..Everyone feels it's a foregone conclusion at least one will come out but that's more to inflate mock drafts at this point.

The guy perceived as most likely to come out is Barkley, but it isn't as if he has nothing to gain by staying another year - Mark Sanchez would have probably been a different QB if he stayed for his senior year and he's going to have a lot of people there bringing that up. The team around him is steadily improving and they can convince him they're a Championship contender next season. He's the consensus #2 at his position no matter what he does through the draft process.

Landry Jones has to get better, hands down. He's possibly not even a top-5 QB on some team's boards if all of these guys declare, and still hardly a top-10 pick if he's the only one that does.

RGIII, is on a Baylor team set to lose Kendall Wright and not ready to make a huge leap, has already earned a degree from the school in political science and has the hype train at full speed right now. He's probably my most likely to come out of the three, but would probably earn a mid-late 1st round grade from the advisory committee. Not sure how serious he'd take that, but in 2013 he'd be a much better looking prospect on paper than Cam or even JaMarcus were coming out and probably the #1 pick, even if Barkley is in that class.

There's still a chance it's just Luck, Tannehill and Weeden in this class. (and Foles, if you're a Foles guy)

FUNBUNCHER 11-28-2011 08:36 PM

I'd be curious to know when was the last time a QB entered the draft and was successful in the NFL throwing at a 53% completion rate in college.

SolidGold 11-28-2011 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28 (Post 2767214)
Chandler Harnish doesn't get enough love. He's an experienced signal caller who has very good mobility and has a natural throwing motion with an adequate arm. He compares best to Dan LeFevour as a prospect with the ability to be a better passer thanks to not be mechnically chanllenged with his arm.

Nick Foles is pure garbage at the quarterback position. His stats are inflated by playing in the spread attack. He makes very few NFL caliber throws and his passes float far too much to be able to attack an NFL defense.

++++ rep for the Harnish love. He is my fav under the radar QB coming out, I think he will perform well at the combine and get some good publicity at the post season all star game he goes to (hopefully the Senior Bowl).

jth1331 11-29-2011 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grizzlegom (Post 2767188)
Weeden would be a top 10 pick if he wasn't so old. Still think he's being undersold by many in the draft community and think he'll be a late first to mid-2nd round pick.

I'd be absolutely shocked if a team spent a 1st round, or 2nd round pick on Weeden.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH 11-29-2011 02:21 AM

What about Russell Wilson? He's looked pretty damn good through his 4 year career. On the short side, but is mobile. How is his arm? Accuracy looked decent from what I saw, where is he on the draft radar?

Iamcanadian 11-29-2011 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grizzlegom (Post 2767188)
Weeden would be a top 10 pick if he wasn't so old. Still think he's being undersold by many in the draft community and think he'll be a late first to mid-2nd round pick.

Quote:

From what I have read on Weeden, the scouts don't like his game at all. He is inconsistent and often bailed out by his great receiving corp. He'll look great for awhile then his game just comes apart. I don't expect to see him before round 4 or 5.
Keenum's injuries, size and arm strength leave him as a late rounder at best as well. Colt Brennan 2.0?

Quote:

I fully agree, his arm strength and mechanics are terrible, just looks good in that system.
I like Cousins a lot more than most. I think he's at worst a solid backup with potential to be a middle of the road starter. I'd use a late 2nd/3rd on him.

Quote:

Cousins is just too inconsistent for my liking but he has some potential as a backup.
Lindley still has a cannon with a quick release but his mechanics and decision making still leave something to be desired. Still, he's got big upside and I'd take him in the 4th.

Quote:

I again agree, he has solid potential but is going to need some work.
Patrick Witt will be the next Ivy League QB to be drafted, should go in the 6th.

Quote:

I haven't seen him play but they always have the brain power to handle the thinking part of the game.
Curious to see what Russell Wilson decides to do. Clearly his height will prevent him from being drafted high and there's still the chance he full-on commits to baseball but I wouldn't be surprised if a team looked at him late day 2 if he decides to stick with football. Maybe a good backup to Tebow?

He's draftable especially with those quick feet. Height will be a problem.

Spaceboy1 11-29-2011 08:20 AM

Its funny seeing people say Keenum's arm strength is "terrible"... Just shows that people haven't even really seen him play yet make judgements.

Terrible is a strong word.

jrdrylie 11-29-2011 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaceboy1 (Post 2768342)
Its funny seeing people say Keenum's arm strength is "terrible"... Just shows that people haven't even really seen him play yet make judgements.

Terrible is a strong word.

Terrible is a strong word. I've seen Keenum play. His arm strength is not terrible. However, it is inadequate. I'd say on a scale of 1-10, he's a 3. Now Kellen Moore... terrible isn't a strong enough word to describe his arm strength.

Spaceboy1 11-29-2011 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrdrylie (Post 2768362)
Terrible is a strong word. I've seen Keenum play. His arm strength is not terrible. However, it is inadequate. I'd say on a scale of 1-10, he's a 3. Now Kellen Moore... terrible isn't a strong enough word to describe his arm strength.

He has plenty of zip on his throws, more than enough to be successful in a west coast style system. My major concern would be his mechanics and footwork working under center and his ability to make reads when working in a 3, 5 or 7 step from under center.

Everyone said Drew Brees had a weak arm too, he seems to be working out okay.


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