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-   -   Who should play LSU in the title game now? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49868)

J-Mike88 12-04-2011 08:26 AM

Who should play LSU in the title game now?
 
Now it's all been settled..... has it?

I live in Texas, just next door to Louisiana... where it's SEC country.
Many folks in SEC country believe football doesn't exist outside the SEC.

Who should get to play against LSU in the "mythical" BCS Championship game?

-Alabama again or
-Oklahoma State?

STILLWATER, Okla. -- The question of whether or not No. 2 Alabama should be penalized already has been answered. While No. 3 Oklahoma State beat its archrival No. 10 Oklahoma, 44-10, getting a last and very powerful word before the BCS judges, its rival for the Mercedes-Benz Superdome sideline opposite No. 1 LSU watched mutely from Tuscaloosa.

The Crimson Tide didn't play Saturday because it's not a conference champion. That's a feeling with which the Cowboys are all too familiar. They had never won an outright conference championship. Ever.

Oklahoma State head coach Mike Gundy, who five days ago explained that it wouldn't be fair to rank his Cowboys ahead of the Tide, had a change of heart Saturday night.

"They had their shot," Gundy said. "Just give us ours."

Smooth Criminal 12-04-2011 08:29 AM

I think Alabama should. I don't think it's fair to count them out just because they already lost to LSU. Alabamas loss was to a much better team than OkSts, so I think Alabama is the better team and deserves the shot.

It's as simple as that. Alabama is in the top two teams in the country.

Ozzy 12-04-2011 08:45 AM

Alabama, not even close....


Oklahoma State impressed last night, but Oklahoma is a tanking football team the end of this year. The loss of Broyles was huge for them, and Whaley not being the running back, much less the injuries on the defensive line. That was not a full strength Oklahoma team that they beat.

Great win for Oklahoma State, but just be thankful for a BCS bowl opportunity and win instead of a potential BCS loss in the title game. They should be thankful for what they got.

Trogdor 12-04-2011 08:51 AM

Simple as ranking quality wins, strength of schedule, and conference ranking.

Oklahoma State takes all three (dominating Oklahoma > any of 'bamas wins easily, S.O.S isn't close (7th vs 42nd), and winning your conference > finishing second in your DIVISION and watching the championship game from home). 'Bama scheduled cupcakes for non-conf and doesn't deserve a shot with one-loss on that schedule.

Halsey 12-04-2011 08:54 AM

Alabama is a better team and Oklahoma State lost to Iowa State.

Also, Oklahoma State's non-conference schedule was nothing to pound their chest about.

Brent 12-04-2011 09:08 AM

Okie State earned it.

Grizzlegom 12-04-2011 09:12 AM

Alabama has the more impressive loss but OK State has the more impressive schedule plus its a conference champion. I agree with Gundy, they had their shot, given the way the BCS is designed, they don't deserve a second chance.

Halsey 12-04-2011 09:24 AM

Not buying the arguments for strength of schedule made by people supporting Oklahoma State. Arkansas outranks anyone on Oklahoma State's schedule and Penn State outranks any non-conference opponent on Oklahoma State's schedule.

Also, Oklahoma State lost to Iowa State.

Complex 12-04-2011 10:09 AM

Bama would of won their conference championship if they played in the Big 12. Its not their fault that the best teams play in the SEC.

JoeJoeBrown 12-04-2011 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Complex (Post 2773751)
Bama would of won their conference championship if they played in the Big 12. Its not their fault that the best teams play in the SEC.

You need to clarify that to sec west. And only half of those.

Iamcanadian 12-04-2011 11:41 AM

If you aren't a conference champion then you don't deserve to be in the National Championship game. Alabama knows that formula since the SEC champion got in over Michigan. Michigan lost by 3 to the #1 team at their opponents field, Alabama lost to LSU at home so their argument is even weaker.
Oklahoma St. is their conference champion and they clearly deserve their shot if you want a real national championship game.

diabsoule 12-04-2011 11:54 AM

The precedence was set in 2006 when #1 Ohio State hosted #2 Michigan. Ted Ginn Jr recovered a Michigan on-side kick to preserve the Buckeye's win. Michigan fell in the standings then and voters chose a 1 loss Florida team who lost to Auburn and barely squeaked by Tennessee and South Carolina (1 point wins over both) and struggled against Vanderbilt (6 point win).

The voters chose Florida because they were against a re-match pointing out that Michigan had their chance in the regular season. The same is true for Alabama.

The Crimson Tide had their shot at LSU AT HOME in Tuscaloosa and came up short. Sure, the same reasoning Les Miles used in 2007 applies now. It also applies for Oklahoma State. "We're undefeated in regulation" is true. It's also true that Alabama's only loss is to the #1 team in the country. But that's why you play the game. Alabama's season was on the line in that game. They lost therefore they didn't win their division and didn't get to play for a chance to win their conference.

Oklahoma State lost in double overtime to Iowa State in Ames following a tragedy that affect their university (although I doubt any of the players could have named the women's basketball head coach). After they lost, however, they went on to decimate the second best team in their conference, arch-rival Oklahoma.

Who deserves it more? Oklahoma State. The Cowboys have 5 wins over top 25 teams, Alabama has 3. Alabama's loss is prettier than Oklahoma State's but in my opinion it's about body of work and Oklahoma State has the more impressive body of work over Alabama.

JoeJoeBrown 12-04-2011 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabsoule (Post 2773846)
The precedence was set in 2006 when #1 Ohio State hosted #2 Michigan. Ted Ginn Jr recovered a Michigan on-side kick to preserve the Buckeye's win. Michigan fell in the standings then and voters chose a 1 loss Florida team who lost Auburn and barely squeaked by Tennessee and South Carolina (1 point wins over both) and struggled against Vanderbilt (6 point win).

The voters chose Florida because they were against a re-match pointing out that Michigan had their chance in the regular season. The same is true for Alabama.

The Crimson Tide had their shot at LSU AT HOME in Tuscaloosa and came up short. Sure, the same reasoning Les Miles used in 2007 applies now. It also applies for Oklahoma State. "We're undefeated in regulation" is true. It's also true that Alabama's only loss is to the #1 team in the country. But that's why you play the game. Alabama's season was on the line in that game. They lost therefore they didn't win their division and didn't get to play for a chance to win their conference.

Oklahoma State lost in double overtime to Iowa State in Ames following a tragedy that affect their university (although I doubt any of the players could have named the women's basketball head coach). After they lost, however, they went on to decimate the second best team in their conference, arch-rival Oklahoma.

Who deserves it more? Oklahoma State. The Cowboys have 5 wins over top 25 teams, Alabama has 3. Alabama's loss is prettier than Oklahoma State's but in my opinion it's about body of work and Oklahoma State has the more impressive body of work over Alabama.

Well said! +1billion rep

Iamcanadian 12-04-2011 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabsoule (Post 2773846)
The precedence was set in 2006 when #1 Ohio State hosted #2 Michigan. Ted Ginn Jr recovered a Michigan on-side kick to preserve the Buckeye's win. Michigan fell in the standings then and voters chose a 1 loss Florida team who lost Auburn and barely squeaked by Tennessee and South Carolina (1 point wins over both) and struggled against Vanderbilt (6 point win).

The voters chose Florida because they were against a re-match pointing out that Michigan had their chance in the regular season. The same is true for Alabama.

The Crimson Tide had their shot at LSU AT HOME in Tuscaloosa and came up short. Sure, the same reasoning Les Miles used in 2007 applies now. It also applies for Oklahoma State. "We're undefeated in regulation" is true. It's also true that Alabama's only loss is to the #1 team in the country. But that's why you play the game. Alabama's season was on the line in that game. They lost therefore they didn't win their division and didn't get to play for a chance to win their conference.

Oklahoma State lost in double overtime to Iowa State in Ames following a tragedy that affect their university (although I doubt any of the players could have named the women's basketball head coach). After they lost, however, they went on to decimate the second best team in their conference, arch-rival Oklahoma.

Who deserves it more? Oklahoma State. The Cowboys have 5 wins over top 25 teams, Alabama has 3. Alabama's loss is prettier than Oklahoma State's but in my opinion it's about body of work and Oklahoma State has the more impressive body of work over Alabama.

I think this sums up the situation prefectly and is why Alabama shouldn't be in the game. The BCS gave in to pressure against Michigan who had an even more valid claim than Alabama and let Florida into the game. Now it is Oklahoma St.'s turn.

Halsey 12-04-2011 12:07 PM

Alabama beat 4 ranked teams. Stop trying to cherry pick the rankings that fit your argument. Oklahoma State's body of work was not more impressive. Alabama killed everyone they played, except #1 ranked LSU.

The reason Florida was chosen ahead of Michigan is because Florida was the better team.

JoeJoeBrown 12-04-2011 12:08 PM

Twitterverse is indicating that Bama is going to barely make the cut.

JRTPlaya21 12-04-2011 12:22 PM

I'm sorry but a tragedy doesn't erase a 24-7 lead. That is called being a slight bit overrated. Heck Stanford is a more complete team then OSU and nobody is hyping up their case. Bama is 2 in the Coaches & AP right now and #2 in three computer polls. Barring some killer voter fraud this one is all but over. If Bama had lost to like Vandy would they deserve to be in it? Would they have blown a 24-7 lead at Ames? Highly doubtful. But if OSU does make it in good luck to them.....

diabsoule 12-04-2011 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halsey (Post 2773884)
Alabama beat 4 ranked teams. Stop trying to cherry pick the rankings that fit your argument. Oklahoma State's body of work was not more impressive. Alabama killed everyone they played, except #1 ranked LSU.

The reason Florida was chosen ahead of Michigan is because Florida was the better team.

You're arguing with an LSU fan and an SEC fan. Alabama has beat 4 ranked teams if you just glance at their schedule on ESPN. If you look at the week 13 rankings then it'll show that teams that Oklahoma State has beaten have fallen out of the rankings and teams they had beaten that weren't ranked rose to becoming ranked. Same is true for Alabama.

Right now LSU has defeated 8 ranked opponents but when looking back on the 2011 season are you going to remember Mississippi State, Florida, and Auburn as being ranked opponents? No, you're going to remember them being average teams (two are 6-6, one is 7-5). So looking at it from a ranking perspective of this week, LSU has defeated 5 ranked teams.

When the new BCS rankings come out today the amount of ranked teams LSU will still be 5. Alabama will have defeated 2 (Penn State, Arkansas) and Oklahoma State four.

When Oklahoma State beat Texas A&M earlier this year they were ranked 8th. They finished 6-6. When they beat Baylor they were unranked. Kansas State was 14th. Baylor and KSU will have finished as top 15 teams at the end of the season.

And in 2006, it was hard to tell if Florida was the better team than Michigan. The Wolverine's were undefeated going into the Ohio State and their only regular season loss was the #1 ranked team in the country. As I pointed out earlier, Florida had barely defeated two teams and lost to 10th ranked Auburn.

Alabama has blown out their opponents but they also had Kent State and North Texas, two of the statistically worst teams in FBS on their schedule and played an FCS school. Oklahoma State had three out of conference games against UL-L (who beat North Texas by 20), Tulsa and Arizona.

And averaging up the scores of all their wins Alabama has defeated their opponents by a 30 point average. Oklahoma State an average of 25 points per game. A 5 point difference is minimal. That's the difference of beating a team 37-7 and 32-7.

Saints-Tigers 12-04-2011 12:44 PM

Well, look at it this way, if OK state doesn't get in, at least you can all pretend someone else had a legitimate shot of beating the SEC for a championship. It's going to look bad if they get in and the SEC crushes another team that everyone pandered to get in.

Honestly, we already saw Alabama on their home turf, I'd have more sympathy if they lost by 3 in Baton Rouge, but it's whatever, the whole system is a joke, and I stopped getting worked up over rankings a long time ago.

Halsey 12-04-2011 12:47 PM

I don't care how many of Alabama's opponent were ranked. They are a better team than Oklahoma State. Again, Alabama killed everyone they played except LSU. It's not Alabama's fault what other teams were ranked.

J-Mike88 12-04-2011 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabsoule (Post 2774012)
When the new BCS rankings come out today the amount of ranked teams LSU will still be 5. Alabama will have defeated 2 (Penn State, Arkansas) and Oklahoma State four.

Great post. And calling Penn State a ranked team is pretty flimsy. They suck.
Compare them to Wisconsin, it was a mismatch.

I love the SEC, but they're overrated this year.
That offense is not championship caliber.

J-Mike88 12-04-2011 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers (Post 2774045)
Well, look at it this way, if OK state doesn't get in, at least you can all pretend someone else had a legitimate shot of beating the SEC for a championship. It's going to look bad if they get in and the SEC crushes another team that everyone pandered to get in.

Honestly, we already saw Alabama on their home turf, I'd have more sympathy if they lost by 3 in Baton Rouge, but it's whatever, the whole system is a joke, and I stopped getting worked up over rankings a long time ago.

That's a fact.
A bad joke, one of the most corrupt jokes in America, and that includes insurance, financial, and politics.

Even some politicians can't stop the BCS BS.

diabsoule 12-04-2011 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mike88 (Post 2774135)
Great post. And calling Penn State a ranked team is pretty flimsy. They suck.
Compare them to Wisconsin, it was a mismatch.

I love the SEC, but they're overrated this year.
That offense is not championship caliber.

The SEC is so top heavy this year. LSU, Bama, Arkansas, UGA, S. Carolina all 10+ win teams. The rest are .500.

The offenses of LSU and Bama aren't pretty but they're effective and relentless. The Pac-12 champion and co-Big East champion weren't able to stop LSU's. Hell, no one really has been able to stop it cold except Alabama. It's all about the defenses and right now LSU is the most complete team in college football with the way they effectively use their four running backs to bludgeon defenses and then their suffocating and turnover making defense to frustrate opposing offense.

It's fun to watch if you're an LSU fan, which I am.

jsagan77 12-04-2011 01:08 PM

It should be Alabama and I can't see how it's even close. They've killed everyone else they've played and lost to the #1 team in OT even though they dominated the game. Still think we should have a playoff though.

Complex 12-04-2011 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabsoule (Post 2774012)
You're arguing with an LSU fan and an SEC fan. Alabama has beat 4 ranked teams if you just glance at their schedule on ESPN. If you look at the week 13 rankings then it'll show that teams that Oklahoma State has beaten have fallen out of the rankings and teams they had beaten that weren't ranked rose to becoming ranked. Same is true for Alabama.

Right now LSU has defeated 8 ranked opponents but when looking back on the 2011 season are you going to remember Mississippi State, Florida, and Auburn as being ranked opponents? No, you're going to remember them being average teams (two are 6-6, one is 7-5). So looking at it from a ranking perspective of this week, LSU has defeated 5 ranked teams.

When the new BCS rankings come out today the amount of ranked teams LSU will still be 5. Alabama will have defeated 2 (Penn State, Arkansas) and Oklahoma State four.

When Oklahoma State beat Texas A&M earlier this year they were ranked 8th. They finished 6-6. When they beat Baylor they were unranked. Kansas State was 14th. Baylor and KSU will have finished as top 15 teams at the end of the season.

And in 2006, it was hard to tell if Florida was the better team than Michigan. The Wolverine's were undefeated going into the Ohio State and their only regular season loss was the #1 ranked team in the country. As I pointed out earlier, Florida had barely defeated two teams and lost to 10th ranked Auburn.

Alabama has blown out their opponents but they also had Kent State and North Texas, two of the statistically worst teams in FBS on their schedule and played an FCS school. Oklahoma State had three out of conference games against UL-L (who beat North Texas by 20), Tulsa and Arizona.

And averaging up the scores of all their wins Alabama has defeated their opponents by a 30 point average. Oklahoma State an average of 25 points per game. A 5 point difference is minimal. That's the difference of beating a team 37-7 and 32-7.

So losing to #10 ranked team is as bad as losing to Iowa St.?


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