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-   -   Poll: Matt Barkley or RG III? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50077)

Cardinal96 12-13-2011 02:48 PM

Poll: Matt Barkley or RG III?
 
I see this as a more reasonable discussion.

You are the GM for a NFL team with the 2nd pick in Round 1. The Colts have taken Andrew Luck at number 1. Assume your team wants a QB and both Barkley and RGIII have declared. Who do you pick?

49erNation85 12-13-2011 03:05 PM

I would take Barkley in the long run only if he goes back for his senior year and improves on the little things. He would still improve in the pros but I would want him polished up and ready to go so I could start him day one after mini camps etc.
Same goes for Griffin. It is a toss up tho since they both play in a pro style set offense etc.I would still love to take Griffin though if Barkley was gone and use his speed and arm to my strengths. It also depends on where I am picking as well. But again it would have to Barkley it is just a bummer he can't show up his big skills in a bowl game this season. Which why I think he stays for next season to get into a major bowl game.

SickwithIt1010 12-13-2011 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 49erNation85 (Post 2788032)
Same goes for Griffin. It is a toss up tho since they both play in a pro style set offense etc

What? Griffen doesnt play in a pro style offense?

Sloopy 12-13-2011 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 49erNation85 (Post 2788032)
I would take Barkley in the long run only if he goes back for his senior year and improves on the little things. He would still improve in the pros but I would want him polished up and ready to go so I could start him day one after mini camps etc.
Same goes for Griffin. It is a toss up tho since they both play in a pro style set offense etc.I would still love to take Griffin though if Barkley was gone and use his speed and arm to my strengths. It also depends on where I am picking as well. But again it would have to Barkley it is just a bummer he can't show up his big skills in a bowl game this season. Which why I think he stays for next season to get into a major bowl game.

Robert Griffin most certainly did not run in a prostyle offense...

This is tough, I really like both. I think no matter who you get you don't lose out but I would probably go with Barkley as a more NFL ready QB. Playing in a prostyle system, dropping from center and all. Still I feel like I would need a coin to decide

K Train 12-13-2011 03:46 PM

coin flip sounds good.

im scared of both kinds of QBs....ones with inflated numbers tht can be considered "running QBs" and USC QBs in general

Sloopy 12-13-2011 03:47 PM

My honest opinion is that it's all irrelevant...

Barkley really should return next year and be the #1 QB next year

FUNBUNCHER 12-13-2011 03:53 PM

I think RGIII is the better pro prospect, but I'd be happy with either one.
Their games aren't the same but IMO both will figure out ways to get it done at the next level.

Barkley really needs to work on synching up his deep ball better, other than that it's hard to find major weaknesses in his game.

SchizophrenicBatman 12-13-2011 03:58 PM

Barkley has grown on me but I still think he's a little behind the times in terms of where the QB position is headed. The new ideal is Rodgers. I wish RG3 was built differently - he looks like a WR and I'm worried he'll have constant injuries - but he's still more intriguing. You gotta go by a sliding scale of risk/reward here and while I think the risk is higher with Griffin the reward is too and that wins out for me

Iamcanadian 12-13-2011 04:04 PM

Mark me down as a RG111 lover. Just like Luck stands out in an interview, RG 111 is right there with him and very impressive. Both of these guys have intangibles that are off the charts.
As for Barkley, I'm not sure how he rates in this area since I really haven't see him interviewed and while he might be close, the fact that he is thinking of returning to school makes me think he lacks the maturity of either Luck or RG111.
When Leinert returned to school, he demonstrated a real lack of maturity and I suspect Barkley will too. Leinert never reached his ceiling because he never worked hard at the game preferring to party than to study his chosen profession.
Add in the fact that Barkley definitely had superior talent to work with at USC and I begin to get worried that he is a potential bust. He is going to have to convince scouts and GM's that he puts pro football as the highest priority in his life, or he will sink substantially by next year's draft if he returns to school.

jrdrylie 12-13-2011 04:05 PM

I love Barkley. His game against Stanford was great. He might not have the biggest arm, but his ball placement and accuracy are fantastic. RGIII isn't bad, I just like Barkley more.

No_ 12-13-2011 04:05 PM

Barkley. I think he breaks the USC mold. The kid has been playing with a huge target on his back since Mater Dei. I'm a believer.

I wouldn't mind if my team took RG3 in the mid-late first round, but I'm super cautious if he goes in the top 5 let alone the top 10

WCH 12-13-2011 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SchizophrenicBatman (Post 2788133)
Barkley has grown on me but I still think he's a little behind the times in terms of where the QB position is headed. The new ideal is Rodgers. I wish RG3 was built differently - he looks like a WR and I'm worried he'll have constant injuries - but he's still more intriguing. You gotta go by a sliding scale of risk/reward here and while I think the risk is higher with Griffin the reward is too and that wins out for me

If he really measures in at 6'2" 220 pounds, I don't think his build is a problem. Aaron Rodgers looks a lot thinner than Brett Favre did, and they were both 6'2" 220 pounds.

If he measures closer to 200, then we have a red flag.

Miaoww 12-13-2011 05:55 PM

There's something really, really off putting for me about RG3. I think it's his funky throwing motion and the fact that he looks uncoordinated when he runs. He just looks like an awkward athlete to me. He also looks really frail.

Plus those Superman socks were horrendous.

RaiderNation 12-13-2011 06:02 PM

I rate Barkley similarly to the likes of Sam Bradford when he came out. If Luck wasn't in this draft I think the Colts would still go QB with Barkley with the 1st pick.

Iamcanadian 12-13-2011 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrdrylie (Post 2788148)
I love Barkley. His game against Stanford was great. He might not have the biggest arm, but his ball placement and accuracy are fantastic. RGIII isn't bad, I just like Barkley more.

I think if Barkley declares, he and RG111 will battle it out down to the wire for who goes #2 and #3, if he returns to school, his draft grade will take a hit, because scouts and GM's will wonder how high a priority football is in his life.
As Russell and Leinert show, talent alone won't make you a star at the next level, your head has to be screwed on right for success.

ElectricEye 12-13-2011 07:17 PM

Robert Griffin, quite easily too. I like Barkley quite a bit too, but Griffin really sets himself a part as a player with his unique combination of athleticism, accuracy(particuarly on the deep ball and ball placement on the out route), pocket pressence, and intagibles. Griffin is as good of a pure passer is in the country with a great natural feel for the passing game. That's usually limited to guys who are statue-esque in the pocket. You could throw out his athleticism and mobility and still have a top flight prospect. Griffin's ability to be a legitimate quarterback in addition to being a top flight athlete translates very well to where the NFL is headed, where the ability to extend the play just takes another thing away from passing defenses who have enough to worry about already. Griffin still has a ton of room for improvement as well....even though he's not a landslide that some think he is right now either. His floor is a lot higher than some people seem to think, and with his top flight intaginbles and work ethic, you've got to think he's a pretty safe bet to continue to improve.

It seems RGIII is making his way through a slight backlack peroid though. A lot of that has to do with the perception that he's a new commodity, when in reality he's been on the radar since his freshmen year. Between injuries and a Baylor program that has historically(and presently, something Griffin doesn't seem to be getting recongition for anywhere but with Heismen voters) I can see how he's flown under the radar until recently, but that doesn't mean he hasn't been doing the kinds of things that you want to see from a first round pick. Some of the stuff I've seen people saying to discredit Griffin I just flat out haven't seen having watched every game I could of his for four years(although one was quite short).

None of this is to say that Barkley isn't a quality pro prospect. Quite the opposite, even. In some drafts, I could even see him being a top five type player. The board just doesn't break that way this year though, between Luck's iron-clad grip on the top spot and Griffin's ability. In the end, the fact that Sanchez and Leinart hurt Barkley a little bit. Is that fair? We'll have to see when he gets to the NFL. I personally think he's a pretty good bet to be better than those two, but when you write the scouting report, they all sound very similar. Barkley seems to have a much better work ethic than Leinart did...and when you watch him it's hard to see him being as bad as Mark Sanchez has been at times in the NFL. He's certainly proved a lot more at the college level than Sanchez ever did.

Sloopy 12-13-2011 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian (Post 2788145)
Mark me down as a RG111 lover. Just like Luck stands out in an interview, RG 111 is right there with him and very impressive. Both of these guys have intangibles that are off the charts.
As for Barkley, I'm not sure how he rates in this area since I really haven't see him interviewed and while he might be close, the fact that he is thinking of returning to school makes me think he lacks the maturity of either Luck or RG111.
When Leinert returned to school, he demonstrated a real lack of maturity and I suspect Barkley will too. Leinert never reached his ceiling because he never worked hard at the game preferring to party than to study his chosen profession.
Add in the fact that Barkley definitely had superior talent to work with at USC and I begin to get worried that he is a potential bust. He is going to have to convince scouts and GM's that he puts pro football as the highest priority in his life, or he will sink substantially by next year's draft if he returns to school.

No man... The guy didn't transfer after the whole death penalty despite it hurting him with not being able to showcase in a bowl game. If he and others return next year they have a legitimate shot at a National Title and he could be the #1 guy next year... his reasons for returning have nothing to do with maturity

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian (Post 2788290)
I think if Barkley declares, he and RG111 will battle it out down to the wire for who goes #2 and #3, if he returns to school, his draft grade will take a hit, because scouts and GM's will wonder how high a priority football is in his life.
As Russell and Leinert show, talent alone won't make you a star at the next level, your head has to be screwed on right for success.

See above. There is no way that returning hurts his stock, unless he completely bombs but I think that it sets that team up for a great year.

If anything it shows his leadership qualities in that he isn't leaving his teammates out to dry to get a paycheck.

Also it gives him a chance at being the #1 pick next year as there is no way he will go over Luck this year... nothing wrong with that

Complex 12-13-2011 07:57 PM

RGIII easily, I think Barkley is the fourth best QB if Wilson,RGIII,Luck and Barkley all came out.

SickwithIt1010 12-13-2011 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Complex (Post 2788404)
RGIII easily, I think Barkley is the fourth best QB if Wilson,RGIII,Luck and Barkley all came out.

Jesus, really?

Get out of here with that ****.

SickwithIt1010 12-13-2011 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian (Post 2788290)
I think if Barkley declares, he and RG111 will battle it out down to the wire for who goes #2 and #3, if he returns to school, his draft grade will take a hit, because scouts and GM's will wonder how high a priority football is in his life.
As Russell and Leinert show, talent alone won't make you a star at the next level, your head has to be screwed on right for success.

Please, Barkley would be going back to school for a different reason than Leinart. Leinart went back because he enjoyed getting **** faced, and pounding chicks every night. Barkley would be going back to get better, and win a NC...he wouldnt be going back to party.

Barkley wants it, and hes showed it. He has done nothing but improve each and every day since he has been at USC. GM's arent going to question him for going back...did they question Luck??? not one time...so what the hell is your logic on that.

Sloopy 12-13-2011 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Complex (Post 2788404)
RGIII easily, I think Barkley is the fourth best QB if Wilson,RGIII,Luck and Barkley all came out.

Yea man I'm going to have to disagree with you here. RGIII has an argument ( and I wouldn't necessarily say that your wrong) but even if him and Wilson stayed in school this year I would venture to say that Barkley would go #1 to Wilson's #2

Iamcanadian 12-13-2011 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweater-vest_mafia (Post 2788400)
No man... The guy didn't transfer after the whole death penalty despite it hurting him with not being able to showcase in a bowl game. If he and others return next year they have a legitimate shot at a National Title and he could be the #1 guy next year... his reasons for returning have nothing to do with maturity



See above. There is no way that returning hurts his stock, unless he completely bombs but I think that it sets that team up for a great year.

If anything it shows his leadership qualities in that he isn't leaving his teammates out to dry to get a paycheck.

Also it gives him a chance at being the #1 pick next year as there is no way he will go over Luck this year... nothing wrong with that

Here I completely disagree. Barkley like all pro prospects have been working hard all their lives to achieve a goal of being a professional football player. If he goes #2 in the draft or #3, the salary difference under the rookie salary cap is relatively small and it puts him 1 year closer to being a very high paid pro.

If he returns to school and I've heard rumours, he likes the college lifestyle(USC has a reputation), and risks his career to a season ending injury, pro scouts and GM's will question his maturity, it was the main reason Leinert dropped in the draft after going back to school.

The way the scouts and GM's view the move is simple, 'what are your goals in life' 'how hard will you work to achieve those goals' and finally what are your priorities? Returning to school so you can possibly win a National Championship vs turning pro and getting on with the serious things in your life, is a no brainer. The mature athlete knows what needs to be done and any divergence from the main goal of life for some fluff, really doesn't impress scouts and GM's.

Not only does he risk serious injury in returning to school, he risks turning off a lot of teams who will question the move and he will be put under a fine microscope all next season where everything will be questioned.
Sure, if he completely can handle all that pressure, remain injury free and show scouts and GM's a sizable progression as a QB, all may turnout well. But if there is a slip anywhere along the line, he is going to pay dearly in his pocketbook on draft day.

Sloopy 12-13-2011 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian (Post 2788432)
Here I completely disagree. Barkley like all pro prospects have been working hard all their lives to achieve a goal of being a professional football player. If he goes #2 in the draft or #3, the salary difference under the rookie salary cap is relatively small and it puts him 1 year closer to being a very high paid pro.

If he returns to school and I've heard rumours, he likes the college lifestyle(USC has a reputation), and risks his career to a season ending injury, pro scouts and GM's will question his maturity, it was the main reason Leinert dropped in the draft after going back to school.

This may all very well be. I don't think you can compare him to Leinert. Just because one guy acts in a certain way does not mean that everyone that comes out will be


Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian (Post 2788432)
The way the scouts and GM's view the move is simple, 'what are your goals in life' 'how hard will you work to achieve those goals' and finally what are your priorities? Returning to school so you can possibly win a National Championship vs turning pro and getting on with the serious things in your life, is a no brainer. The mature athlete knows what needs to be done and any divergence from the main goal of life for some fluff, really doesn't impress scouts and GM's.

Not only does he risk serious injury in returning to school, he risks turning off a lot of teams who will question the move and he will be put under a fine microscope all next season where everything will be questioned.
Sure, if he completely can handle all that pressure, remain injury free and show scouts and GM's a sizable progression as a QB, all may turnout well. But if there is a slip anywhere along the line, he is going to pay dearly in his pocketbook on draft day.

However, this is simply not true... players stay or don't stay every year for any # of reasons and GMs don't hold it against them, nor does it necessarily speak to there maturity. End of the day, the only thing that will hurt you by going back in a GMs eyes is if you get exposed in your final season.

He can severely improve his draft stock by staying a year. #1 is better than possibly going #3 and as long as he handles his own and if he indeed does lead the team to a NC game he will undoubtedly be the first QB taken.

ellsy82 12-13-2011 08:37 PM

<- Consider this guy on board the Griffin train.

Flyboy 12-13-2011 08:42 PM

I may be in the minority, but count me in for RGIII. Something about him just stands out as a prospect to me and I think he will be a damned good QB in the league. Not to take anything away from Barkley because I like him too but I have RGIII over him if I have the choose.


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