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-   -   Fleener: The Top TE or Too One-Dimensional? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51519)

dunagan15 03-11-2012 01:13 PM

Fleener: The Top TE or Too One-Dimensional?
 
Basically just wanting to know a little more about Fleener and those who have watched him play more than 1 or 2 times.

When I did get to see hm play I didnt so much pay attention to his blocking skills, route running etc.

Is he guy that can do it all or was he a product of Andrew Luck making him look better as a pass catcher? Is he a hands catcher? Being a Falcon fan obviously nobody will be Gonzo but a year to learn behind him could pay huge dividends.

Matthew Jones 03-11-2012 01:15 PM

His height will cause mismatches and he is fast enough to get open down the seam, although he's certainly not a Rob Gronkowski or Jermaine Gresham type of athlete. He's a willing blocker but his effectiveness is only average and in the NFL he might have some trouble without bulking up. He is a hands catcher but I've seen him drop a few passes as well.

Nebula 03-11-2012 01:29 PM

This guy is the most polished TE I've seen come out of the draft in a long, long time. He has the savvy of a Jason Whitten, the frame of a mis-match TE like Graham, and great quick-twitch ability out of his cuts

He's extremely intelligent and is only going to get better. I think he becomes one of the top TEs in the game immediately coming into the league

Gronkowski is a little bit overrated as an athlete if you're going to use him as a standard for speed. Gronk isn't overly explosive or quick off the ball Hernandez and doesn't have great explosiveness out of his cuts. He makes most of his plays because of his absolutely oustanding hands and elite body control/jump ball ability. Speed + separation isn't what he's all about. I don't think Fleener possesses the type of ball skills Gronk does, but I think hes much more quicker in a short area

Iamcanadian 03-11-2012 01:37 PM

He's a 2nd round talent who will fight it out with Charles for who is the 1st TE drafted.

He's a gritty blocker and it is easy to envision him blossoming into an every down player. Charles cannot match him in this area so it is quite possible he will be the 1st TE chosen.

Matthew Jones 03-11-2012 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebula (Post 2895717)
This guy is the most polished TE I've seen come out of the draft in a long, long time. He has the savvy of a Jason Whitten, the frame of a mis-match TE like Graham, and great quick-twitch ability out of his cuts

He's extremely intelligent and is only going to get better. I think he becomes one of the top TEs in the game immediately coming into the league

Gronkowski is a little bit overrated as an athlete if you're going to use him as a standard for speed. Gronk isn't overly explosive or quick off the ball Hernandez and doesn't have great explosiveness out of his cuts. He makes most of his plays because of his absolutely oustanding hands and elite body control/jump ball ability. Speed + separation isn't what he's all about. I don't think Fleener possesses the type of ball skills Gronk does, but I think hes much more quicker in a short area

Gronkowski actually posted a very impressive cone drill time of 7.18 seconds and a 40-yard dash of 4.65. Most people assume that because he's big he isn't extremely athletic. To put that in perspective, he topped Trumaine Johnson in the cone drill this year despite being four inches and 60 pounds bigger.

Iamcanadian 03-11-2012 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebula (Post 2895717)

Gronkowski is a little bit overrated as an athlete if you're going to use him as a standard for speed. Gronk isn't overly explosive or quick off the ball Hernandez and doesn't have great explosiveness out of his cuts. He makes most of his plays because of his absolutely oustanding hands and elite body control/jump ball ability. Speed + separation isn't what he's all about. I don't think Fleener possesses the type of ball skills Gronk does, but I think hes much more quicker in a short area

Your kidding right, Gronk is overrated, come on.

bucfan12 03-11-2012 02:43 PM

Fleener is definately hands down the most pure TE of this class and will make any team regret on passing him.

Orson Charles and Dwayne Allen are getting the hype due to athleticism and workout warriors, but they don't have the instincts and skills Fleener has.

onejayhawk 03-11-2012 03:20 PM

Both.

J

TACKLE 03-11-2012 03:30 PM

Anyone who doubts his blocking should check out this vid.



That's about as solid blocking as you can ask for from a 245 guy who runs 4.5.

Matthew Jones 03-11-2012 03:34 PM

4.5? I'd be impressed if he run under a 4.7.

dunagan15 03-11-2012 03:43 PM

From what Ive read it def seems like hes the guy I was hoping he would. Not amazing blocker, but if hes a guy thats willing to at least put effort into it he will improve. Just like Gonzo hes not an overpowering blocker by any means and def not known for it but he does a great job simply b/c of technique and the effort put in.

Def. like Fleener but its not looking like he makes it to 55, what other teams are in big need for a TE?

TACKLE 03-11-2012 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 2895989)
4.5? I'd be impressed if he run under a 4.7.

Well then your eyes are deceiving you.

____


From an NFP article talking to NFL front office men about there thoughts on certain players forty times and who plays fast on tape. Link

Quote:

Coby Fleener, Stanford TE. 40 time—has not run. If Fleener runs like he plays, he’ll run a 4.4.

From another article before the season...

Quote:

"He has unbelievable speed for a guy his size," outside linebacker Chase Thomas said.

Safety Michael Thomas calls Fleener "the second fastest offensive player we have" after Chris Owusu.

Matthew Jones 03-11-2012 04:00 PM

4.5 is Justin Blackmon/Morris Claiborne speed. 4.55 is Dwight Jones/Brian Quick speed. Not even close. Scott's got him at 4.75, Draft Scout at 4.77, Pro Football Weekly at 4.75. I'd tend to believe that over a teammate. What is the teammate going to say, "he's not one of the fastest guys"?

DeepThreat 03-11-2012 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 2895989)
4.5? I'd be impressed if he run under a 4.7.

Be prepared to be surprised.

TACKLE 03-11-2012 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 2896071)
4.5 is Justin Blackmon/Morris Claiborne speed. 4.55 is Dwight Jones/Brian Quick speed. Not even close. Scott's got him at 4.75, Draft Scout at 4.77, Pro Football Weekly at 4.75. I'd tend to believe that over a teammate. What is the teammate going to say, "he's not one of the fastest guys"?

Yes because those times are usually dead on and aren't just conservative guesses from long before the season. :rolleyes:

niel89 03-11-2012 05:43 PM

Fleener is easily under a 4.7. He has speed and was basically our only legit down field threat last year. He is a hand catcher but he has some drops, not a problem though. He runs good routes and know how to use his body to shield off defenders. He has a lot of experience moving around; inline, in the slot, and a lot of work split wide by himself. Good enough blocker and could improve, but he won't be drafted to be a blocker. He will be good enough with a little work for an nfl TE. He does a good job going up and getting the ball.

Video time!

NY+Giants=NYG 03-11-2012 05:56 PM

Our pick is a late first round, early second round basically. So if Fleener is there and BPA, I'd take him. He fits the need portion and if he is BPA, then he is the perfect guy for us!

CDCB14 03-11-2012 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 2896071)
4.5 is Justin Blackmon/Morris Claiborne speed. 4.55 is Dwight Jones/Brian Quick speed. Not even close. Scott's got him at 4.75, Draft Scout at 4.77, Pro Football Weekly at 4.75. I'd tend to believe that over a teammate. What is the teammate going to say, "he's not one of the fastest guys"?

All of those 40 times are not valid because the timing system at the combine this year was flawed. And who cares about what draft nik's like Scott think his 40 time is gonna be?

He is a tall dude you can probably get moving when running in a straight line. 40 times are all about technique. Fleener is definitely faster than 4.7. I bet you could run a 4.7.

niel89 03-11-2012 07:45 PM

BTW ESPN3 is broadcasting Stanfords proday on the 22 so you should be able to get a 40 then and see him in some position drills. I hope he is healed up with that ankle; it was a bummer that he couldn't run at the combine.

I like him in terms of fit/value to the Giants at 32. Although if a talented player at another position falls then they would pass on him.

People are getting caught up in the TE class and forget that it is still pretty poor overall. I like Fleener more than Rudolph but only because of his injuries.

San Diego Chicken 03-11-2012 08:03 PM

He would be perfect for the Giants. Eli is known for those high throws over the seam and Fleener would catch those all day. He separates from DB's with relative ease. I'm really surprised that people are still holding on to Allen with his poor workouts and Charles who is undersized and has character concerns. Fleener has pro bowl potential, looking at it objectively, the other two really don't.

holt_bruce81 03-11-2012 08:22 PM

I wouldn't mind if the Rams snag him up with one of their 2nd round picks, two Tight End set with Fleener and Kendricks isn't to bad.

armageddon 03-11-2012 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 (Post 2896512)
I wouldn't mind if the Rams snag him up with one of their 2nd round picks, two Tight End set with Fleener and Kendricks isn't to bad.



That would be perfect for the Rams offense. That would be Patriots part 2.0. Hopefully Blackmon falls to them at #6, or they trade down a few spots to somebody wanting Richardson and grab Floyd. Floyd is a beast too.

dunagan15 03-11-2012 10:49 PM

Well my pipe dream for Fleener at 55 isnt looking so good. This makes me a sad panda. Well hers to hoping a solid OL is available or nice DB

SenorGato 03-11-2012 10:53 PM

His frame gives him long term potential as an all around TE. I think he can get up to a good 265-270 in a couple of years as a pro.

FUNBUNCHER 03-12-2012 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDCB14 (Post 2896394)
All of those 40 times are not valid because the timing system at the combine this year was flawed. And who cares about what draft nik's like Scott think his 40 time is gonna be?

He is a tall dude you can probably get moving when running in a straight line. 40 times are all about technique. Fleener is definitely faster than 4.7. I bet you could run a 4.7.

Huh?? Most civilians can't run a 4.7 cold. Most college football players don't run a 4.7 or better. I don't need to see FLeener's 40 time to know he's a downfield TE who has the acceleration and straight line speed to beat many safeties in the NFL.

Any TE who can run a 4.7 or better has very good speed for the position IMO.
It's rare to find and why most teams don't look for TEs in the draft who can take a 5 yard hitch and take it 60 yards to the house.
But I am curious to see if Fleener can run a sub 4.6 at Stanford's pro day.
It's the difference from being a top 20-25 pick versus being taken later in the first.


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