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-   -   #3 Tackle - Martin or Adams? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51704)

steelersrock151 03-20-2012 08:33 AM

#3 Tackle - Martin or Adams?
 
Guess I just need some information for something thats been bothering me for weeks, especially since the combine.
Who should be the #3 tackle in the draft, Johnathon Martin or Mike Adams, and how high do you think they should go? For arguments sake, lets leave Cordy Glenn out of it.
At the end of the season, post bowl games and everything, it was pretty clear cut that Martin was the #3 tackle, with some people having him ranked above Reiff for the #2 tackle. Since the Senior Bowl, however, I've constantly seen Adams picked higher in drafts than Martin, with some leaving him out of the first round entirely. Not all drafts, but with enough regularity to bother me (disclaimer: big time Steelers fan, and I see a lot of mocks that have the Steelers picking Adams with Martin still on the board).
Is there a good reason that Adams has risen so high on some people's boards, especially after his pitiful showing at the combine? And is there a reason that Martin seems to be falling?

GoRavens 03-20-2012 08:36 AM

It's Martin.
Adams is a bender, inconsistent and gets tourched at times.
He's not even 4th best in this class.
Zebrie Sanders is $

Shane P. Hallam 03-20-2012 08:45 AM

I think Adams has more upside (though both have a high upside). I see Adams as a better LT in the NFL, Martin as a better RT. I guess that would make Adams my #3 OT ultimately.

A Perfect Score 03-20-2012 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam (Post 2913248)
I think Adams has more upside (though both have a high upside). I see Adams as a better LT in the NFL, Martin as a better RT. I guess that would make Adams my #3 OT ultimately.

I'll take Mike Adams too. He's a natural LT who dominated on tape this past season. Martin is a guy I don't like whatsoever: I've got him as an early second round pick instead of the mid-first alot of people have him as. He's got the feet to play LT, but I see a guy who doesn't possess the edge and tenacity to succeed on an NFL line. Last thing I want for my team is another Jason Smith situation, which I think is a legitimate fear with Martin.

Don Vito 03-20-2012 09:00 AM

I feel like there aren't many people high on Martin. I don't see too much to like with him either, but the consensus seems to be Adams over Martin.

JohnCandy 03-20-2012 09:11 AM

Cordy Glenn

More people are starting to get on board, Mayock included, that Glenn could play LT.

ATLDirtyBirds 03-20-2012 09:34 AM

Riley Reiff.

Big Bird 03-20-2012 10:02 AM

Reiff yes, should be 3rd because Mike Adams should be 2nd and Jonathan Martin 4th.

Mike Adams dominated this past year on tape. The guy has such great physical tools, great kick-step, and smooth feet for a big man. I've cooled on him a little since the Senior Bowl, but he is still in the 11-15 range for me.

Jonathan Martin reminds me too much of Jason Smith. Great athletes, but I believe their too skinny in their lower body. Weak base, can be abused by the bull rush. Martin is more early 2nd for me. Only reason he gets that is because if he can improve his lower body strength and technique, the guy could be pretty good. Will he ever do it though is the question.

ATLDirtyBirds 03-20-2012 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Bird (Post 2913358)
Reiff yes, should be 3rd because Mike Adams should be 2nd and Jonathan Martin 4th.

Mike Adams dominated this past year on tape. The guy has such great physical tools, great kick-step, and smooth feet for a big man. I've cooled on him a little since the Senior Bowl, but he is still in the 11-15 range for me.

Jonathan Martin reminds me too much of Jason Smith. Great athletes, but I believe their too skinny in their lower body. Weak base, can be abused by the bull rush. Martin is more early 2nd for me. Only reason he gets that is because if he can improve his lower body strength and technique, the guy could be pretty good. Will he ever do it though is the question.

This man has it.

bitonti 03-20-2012 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnCandy (Post 2913277)
Cordy Glenn

More people are starting to get on board, Mayock included, that Glenn could play LT.

yeah Im wondering why reiff is the defacto #2. Cordy Glenn is my #2 Tackle. I'd approve of Mike Adams (who was very good at Senior Bowl) but the 19 reps at the combine really sucked. a top tackle should have more reps than that. (Similar knock on Peter Konz in the center discussion).

Steady Lurkin 03-20-2012 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnCandy (Post 2913277)
Cordy Glenn

More people are starting to get on board, Mayock included, that Glenn could play LT.

Yup, I like Cordy Glenn and Mitchell Schwartz quite a bit more than Martin or Adams.

I've just never seen the fascination with Martin in particular. He's not strong, he's very finesse player, and he has slow feet in pass pro which is a terrible combo for an offensive lineman.

PossibleCabbage 03-20-2012 10:28 AM

I like Martin more than Adams. Adams drives me crazy, he's just so inconsistent. Both are pretty overrated.

ATLDirtyBirds 03-20-2012 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steady Lurkin (Post 2913383)
Yup, I like Cordy Glenn and Mitchell Schwartz quite a bit more than Martin or Adams.

I've just never seen the fascination with Martin in particular. He's not strong, he's very finesse player, and he has slow feet in pass pro which is a terrible combo for an offensive lineman.



You're buying them as a LTs? I'm not sure I am (RG, RT) even though I like both guys a ton.

Steady Lurkin 03-20-2012 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLDirtyBirds (Post 2913409)
You're buying them as a LTs? I'm not sure I am (RG, RT) even though I like both guys a ton.

I'd rather try those two out at LT and move them if need be than draft one of Martin or Adams. :shrug:

Sloopy 03-20-2012 10:37 AM

Adams by a long shot.

Martin looked like a marshmallow on the field this year.

Adams had a great year and a great senior bowl. In fact, was on par with Reiff going into the combine, with many (Myself included) ranking him slightly higher than Reiff.

19 reps is disappointing but doesn't undo all of the game tape and the kid went on to do pretty well in the drills.

Reiff had 4 more reps (nothing overly impressive) and also did pretty well in drills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRavens (Post 2913236)
It's Martin.
Adams is a bender, inconsistent and gets tourched at times.
He's not even 4th best in this class.
Zebrie Sanders is $

Reiff will often bend at the waist and reach to make up for somewhat shorter arms than the average LT.

He plays with more consistency but I'm not quite sure it's consistently great (consistently good? Average?).

My main concern with Reiff is that he appears to struggle tremendously with the bull rush.

Adams isn't a natural knee bender either but I don't see him reaching as mush as it is poor technique, this is fixable with coaching if he will take to it.

Has progressively gotten better and was a bit inconsistent as a junior but was pretty solid as a senior.

Struggles with moves back to his inside (particularly the bull rush).

My main concern with Adams is his lack of tenacity in finishing blocks in the run game for a man his size.

iowatreat54 03-20-2012 11:42 AM

Yea, the main concern with Reiff is it basically looks like he doesn't try. He doesn't have that mean streak. I'm not sure if that's something that is teachable.

Whereas Adams appears to get after it, but just not as fundamentally sound.

DeepThreat 03-20-2012 12:03 PM

I really don't know what people see in Jonathan Martin. He doesn't look like a first-round pick to me.

ATLDirtyBirds 03-20-2012 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRavens (Post 2913236)
Zebrie Sanders is $



wut.



10 characters.

GoRavens 03-20-2012 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLDirtyBirds (Post 2913549)
wut.



10 characters.

At 6'6 320, Sanders has been one of the most consistent starters at OT since a freshman.
He's seen as a round 2 type guy, mostly because he seems to be lost at times.
He can also extend a bit too much and be inconsistent with his form.
But other than that, the dude is $$$$$.
He's started over 40 games in his 4 year career at FSU, which means he's durable as well.
He's moved around all over the offensive line, so he's versatile too.
Size wise, Sanders is huge but he also has very quick feet for a man of his size, so LT is his most likely position.
Besides his versatility and durability, his specialty is his athleticism.
Consistently known for running most speed rushers out of the play, he has a quick kick step and his slide is very smooth.
Another highlight trait of his is his aggression.
On run plays he excels at attacking his man with his monster hands.
His initial punch is very powerful.
- At this point, I'm torn between him at LT in the 2nd, or Kelechi Osemele at LG. Both are fantastic "different style' prospects and will be pros for a long time to come.

keylime_5 03-20-2012 01:03 PM

Sanders was never regarded as a physical player. He was bad at the senior bowl and bad at the combine. I could see him going in round 3 or 4. He had a chance to push his stock into the 1st round this offseason, but has only pushed it down with every event.

Iamcanadian 03-20-2012 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keylime_5 (Post 2913630)
Sanders was never regarded as a physical player. He was bad at the senior bowl and bad at the combine. I could see him going in round 3 or 4. He had a chance to push his stock into the 1st round this offseason, but has only pushed it down with every event.

I agree, he was a huge disappointment at the Senior Bowl.

mightytitan9 03-20-2012 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam (Post 2913248)
I think Adams has more upside (though both have a high upside). I see Adams as a better LT in the NFL, Martin as a better RT. I guess that would make Adams my #3 OT ultimately.

^This

I believe Martin can play LT, but I don't think he'll ever be anything special there. Sure he could be a starter on a good team with success, but he would just be a player there nothing special (Matt Light). At RT he could be one of the best IMO. Although, I still don't rule out the possibility of him being moved inside to Guard

With Adams size, strength and athleticism, he could be a probowler at LT for years or he could fizzle out in a few years. I could see him being like the Hotel in his prime (Flozell Adams)

mightytitan9 03-20-2012 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti (Post 2913373)
yeah Im wondering why reiff is the defacto #2. Cordy Glenn is my #2 Tackle. I'd approve of Mike Adams (who was very good at Senior Bowl) but the 19 reps at the combine really sucked. a top tackle should have more reps than that. (Similar knock on Peter Konz in the center discussion).

I don't know, I never take bench into effect much if it's someone over 6'5. There arms are just too long most the time.

JoeJoeBrown 03-20-2012 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightytitan9 (Post 2913935)
I don't know, I never take bench into effect much if it's someone over 6'5. There arms are just too long most the time.

This times a billion.

The bench has little to do with the real physical strength of a tall person.

Yes, some people with long arms can do it well, but that is way outside of the norm.

There is just a lot more stress on the joints and the amount of work a long limbed person has to do is a lot more than a midget.

It's a simple physics problem.

Regardless, Adams can toss people aside if he wants. He's plenty strong.

Iamcanadian 03-20-2012 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam (Post 2913248)
I think Adams has more upside (though both have a high upside). I see Adams as a better LT in the NFL, Martin as a better RT. I guess that would make Adams my #3 OT ultimately.

I just cannot see Martin as a RT. I don't think he is tough enough or all that aggressive for the position.


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