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-   -   Vikes to Take Claiborne at #3? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51705)

H.O.O.D 03-20-2012 08:56 AM

Vikes to Take Claiborne at #3?
 
Quote:

Vikings GM Rick Spielman appears to like Mo Claborne over Matt Kalil

LEADING OFF

Last time I ran into Vikings general manager Rick Spielman, he quizzed me. He asked if I knew the starting left tackles for the Green Bay Packers and New York Giants. I shrugged. He wanted to make the point that a left tackle doesn't have to be an all-pro or even well known for a team to be successful.

Here's the flaw in his thinking: The quarterbacks for the Packers and Giants are either all-pro (Aaron Rodgers) or all-pro caliber (Eli Manning). Teams with elite quarterbacks don't need an all-pro at left tackle. Teams with an inexperienced quarterback, like the Vikings, have a much better chance of success when surrounded by all-pro level players, particularly at left tackle.

The discussion came about because Spielman didn't seem to agree with a column I wrote saying he might be in need of a CAT scan if he passes up Southern California left tackle Matt Kalil with the third overall pick in the NFL draft.

It could just be a smokescreen that Spielman isn't gushing about the prospect of drafting a potential all-pro who could be a fixture at left tackle for the next decade. Then again, why a smokescreen is needed when the first two picks already are decided is baffling.

After listening to the Spielman spiel, this much appears certain: If he keeps the third pick and passes on Kalil, Spielman will draft LSU cornerback Mo Claiborne. He raved more about Claiborne than Kalil.

With each passing day, the argument builds that Spielman prefers Claiborne

over Kalil. For one thing, the Vikings haven't pursued a cornerback in free agency. For another, they have expressed interest in offensive lineman Geoff Schwartz, who is nothing special and missed all of last season after hip surgery. Presumably, he fits the type of lineman Spielman thinks you can win with in the NFL.
http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci...rne?source=rss



Spielman does have a point, there are teams who do not have elite QB's and do not have an all pro LT (San Fran has Staley, Buffalo had Bell, Detroit has Backus etc) however the Vikes QB's were sacked 49 times last year and only 4 teams surrendered more sacks. If they pass on Kalil, then he must get a LT at some point, one who could start from day 1 you would think....

If Claiborne does go number 3 this could shake up the top 10 a little or perhaps give Cleveland an opportunity to move down a few spots at the least as one has to think St.Louis may have some interest in moving back up...

Personally I think they should solidify the position and draft the guy who appears to be a franchise LT first and foremost (Kalil). Put the pieces around Ponder to give him his best chance for success.

Taber21 03-20-2012 09:00 AM

IMO, this is a smokescreen in an attempt to get someone to trade up for Claiborne. I don't think it is worth the risk dropping back at all, as you said its possible Cleveland then trades back with a team like St. Louis looking to draft Kalil. Minnesota needs a new LT, and Kalil appears to have everything needed to be a starter from day 1, and a good one at that.

Shane P. Hallam 03-20-2012 09:01 AM


The_Dude 03-20-2012 09:04 AM

God, i hope that it is only a smoke screen. You never really know with the Vikings, though.....

It has me slightly concerned.

bitonti 03-20-2012 09:06 AM

it is possible... I don't know if it's likely but it is certainly possible. if this did happen the Rams could get Kalil at 6 (!)

K Train 03-20-2012 09:11 AM

they have to take kalil, no way around it.

they can get jenkins or minnifield or someone at the top of the second

SolidGold 03-20-2012 09:13 AM

This has to be smokescreen to try and inflate the value of the #3 pick. The Vikings are a team with a lot of holes. Teams like the Bucs/Rams could also use a DB and trying to get them into a bidding war and attempt to get an extra draft pick.

H.O.O.D 03-20-2012 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti (Post 2913270)
it is possible... I don't know if it's likely but it is certainly possible. if this did happen the Rams could get Kalil at 6 (!)

One has to wonder if Carolina, Buffalo or Arizona would be interested in trading up to leapfrog the Rams ?

It could very well be a smokescreen but then again one never truly knows, stranger things have happened. And this is the same guy who took Ponder at 12 last year.

H.O.O.D 03-20-2012 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold (Post 2913282)
This has to be smokescreen to try and inflate the value of the #3 pick. The Vikings are a team with a lot of holes. Teams like the Bucs/Rams could also use a DB and trying to get them into a bidding war and attempt to get an extra draft pick.

I'd think the Rams would be more than pleased if Minnesota took Claiborne. They could use him yes, but they also could use Justin Blackmon and Matt Kalil. I don't think they will get the Rams to bite on the idea moving up for Claiborne.

killxswitch 03-20-2012 09:18 AM

No, I actually agree with this. Sure, maybe it is a smokescreen, but I remember making the point a few months ago that the left tackle position had become massively overvalued and that sinking $40M guaranteed into that one position was a waste. DCs move pass rushers around to find the best matchup, you can't have a blue chip LT and a crap line everywhere else.

The last 10 SB winners:

Giants
Packers
Saints
Steelers
Giants
Colts
Steelers
Pats
Pats
Bucs

Of those teams the most notable LT is Matt Light. The last team to win the SB with an All-Pro level LT is the Ravens. But even then, that team won with defense and running the ball.

I'm not saying I'd take Claiborne over Kalil, all else being equal. I'm not sure I would. But if I thought CB was the bigger need I would definitely consider it. I think the importance of LT has been a mantra we've parroted back and forth at each other for so long we've forgotten to really assess how true it is.

TheSlinger 03-20-2012 09:24 AM

If you were trying to drive up the value of the pick why would you pretend to want the lower-rated player?

Taber21 03-20-2012 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killxswitch (Post 2913295)
No, I actually agree with this. Sure, maybe it is a smokescreen, but I remember making the point a few months ago that the left tackle position had become massively overvalued and that sinking $40M guaranteed into that one position was a waste. DCs move pass rushers around to find the best matchup, you can't have a blue chip LT and a crap line everywhere else.

The last 10 SB winners:

Giants
Packers
Saints
Steelers
Giants
Colts
Steelers
Pats
Pats
Bucs

Of those teams the most notable LT is Matt Light. The last team to win the SB with an All-Pro level LT is the Ravens. But even then, that team won with defense and running the ball.

I'm not saying I'd take Claiborne over Kalil, all else being equal. I'm not sure I would. But if I thought CB was the bigger need I would definitely consider it. I think the importance of LT has been a mantra we've parroted back and forth at each other for so long we've forgotten to really assess how true it is.

All of those teams LT's were playing better than Charlie Johnson did last year. It's not going to cost them $40m guaranteed for Kalil either. I accept that CB is a huge need, and that all those teams won the SB w/o a top 5 LT... but Claiborne does not appear to be Deion Sanders or Darrelle Revis. I think Kalil is BPA at a position of value and equal need.

killxswitch 03-20-2012 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taber21 (Post 2913311)
All of those teams LT's were playing better than Charlie Johnson did last year. It's not going to cost them $40m guaranteed for Kalil either. I accept that CB is a huge need, and that all those teams won the SB w/o a top 5 LT... but Claiborne does not appear to be Deion Sanders or Darrelle Revis. I think Kalil is BPA at a position of value and equal need.

The Charlie Johnson contract was pretty awful. I still can't believe the Vikings paid him so much. He's a swing tackle.

Taber21 03-20-2012 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killxswitch (Post 2913313)
The Charlie Johnson contract was pretty awful. I still can't believe the Vikings paid him so much. He's a swing tackle.

At least he should (if they are smart and draft Kalil) get kicked inside and won't be AS BIG of a liability. I didn't like the signing when they made it, should have just been a one year deal. They were relying on Mckinnie to play last year, but he showed up at camp weighing 380 or so and they cut him with no one else capable of playing LT, panicked and overpaid Johnson.

shylo3716 03-20-2012 09:35 AM

What does the Vikes BB look like as of now (Top 5 BB)?

A Perfect Score 03-20-2012 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam (Post 2913263)

This was an awesome, awesome post.

Thunder&Lightning 03-20-2012 09:48 AM

If the Vikes take Claiborne and the Browns take Richardson... What do the Bucs do?

Taber21 03-20-2012 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder&Lightning (Post 2913341)
If the Vikes take Claiborne and the Browns take Richardson... What do the Bucs do?

Trade back? Someone would want Kalil badly enough you would think.

Vox Populi 03-20-2012 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder&Lightning (Post 2913341)
If the Vikes take Claiborne and the Browns take Richardson... What do the Bucs do?

Hope that someone wants to trade up? Kuchely would probably be the best pick for them there IMO.

Thunder&Lightning 03-20-2012 10:04 AM

Id say just take Blackmon

bitonti 03-20-2012 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killxswitch (Post 2913295)

The last 10 SB winners:

Giants
Packers
Saints
Steelers
Giants
Colts
Steelers
Pats
Pats
Bucs

how many of those teams had shut down #1 CB? the Packers maybe? Saints had a few good ones, none as good as Claiborne. the logic cuts both ways. in some sense the only position that matters is QB.

PossibleCabbage 03-20-2012 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder&Lightning (Post 2913362)
Id say just take Blackmon

IMO, if the Vikings aren't taking Kalil, Claiborne is a much better pick at #3 than Blackmon.

gpngc 03-20-2012 11:33 AM

I think he's just ******* with the beat writer more than smokescreening.

He definitely wants to trade the pick, but he's not taking Claiborne OVER Kalil.

killxswitch 03-20-2012 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti (Post 2913370)
how many of those teams had shut down #1 CB? the Packers maybe? Saints had a few good ones, none as good as Claiborne. the logic cuts both ways. in some sense the only position that matters is QB.

I wasn't trying to prove the worth of the CB position. I am saying a top 5 LT is not required to win a SB and is overrated.

Scott Wright 03-20-2012 12:04 PM

I've been saying this for a while. The Vikings are in dire straits in their secondary and may need three if not four new starters. I still think there is a strong chance that Minnesota trades down, but if they stay at #3 Kalil is the favorite but Claiborne is very much in the conversation.


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