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-   -   Could Coples Fall? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51819)

RaiderNation 03-27-2012 02:15 AM

Could Coples Fall?
 
Quinton Coples has been the favorite to be the first DE drafted for some time, but could he free fall like Da'Quan Bowers did? I don't see many teams needing a big DE with a cold motor, and he could possibly fall to the late teens. A team like Chicago needs a DE, and might view Coples as Peppers potential replacement down the line like they did with Mario Williams in F/A. Coples isn't a good fit in a 3-4 defense IMO, which will also hurt his stock with more teams going to that scheme.

Brothgar 03-27-2012 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaiderNation (Post 2922845)
Quinton Coples has been the favorite to be the first DE drafted for some time, but could he free fall like Da'Quan Bowers did? I don't see many teams needing a big DE with a cold motor, and he could possibly fall to the late teens. A team like Chicago needs a DE, and might view Coples as Peppers potential replacement down the line like they did with Mario Williams in F/A. Coples isn't a good fit in a 3-4 defense IMO, which will also hurt his stock with more teams going to that scheme.

He won't fall like Bowers but I do see him falling I'm working on my mock now. I'm at 12 and don't see anywhere he really shows up at. Maybe Arizona? I think I'm going to have him end up on the Titans when its all said and done.

StickSkills 03-27-2012 02:31 AM

He might trip, but he won't fall.

TACKLE 03-27-2012 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaiderNation (Post 2922845)
Coples isn't a good fit in a 3-4 defense IMO, which will also hurt his stock with more teams going to that scheme.

See, I believe the opposite to be true. The reason Coples was a less effective player on the field wasn't because of program instability as he would have you believe. It's simply because he's a better interior defensive lineman than he is on the outside. He drew a lot of positive reviews at Senior Bowl but it wasn't because of his edge rushing prowess. Where he really stood out was vs. the run when he could use his strength and length at the point of attack. As a pass rusher, both in the drills and game, we saw him use a tighter alignment and he was significantly more successful on power and inside moves.

He's never been much of an 'edge rusher' and we got a glimpse of why at the combine. Coples quietly had a really poor performance in Indy. On the surface he had a good weigh in, bench and a solid 40. But in the 3-cone and short shuttle, arguably the two most important drills for pass rushers, he finished dead last out of all of the DE's in both with a 7.57 and 4.78. Both of these reflect in his game with his lack of flexibility, bend of change of direction off the edge. I really believe that any 4-3 drafting him as a DE in the first round expecting him to be a strong pass rusher is making a mistake. On the other hand, I really think he stands a better chance at succeeding in a 3-4. He has an ideal body type and has the frame to carry a little more weight if need be, proven strength and physicality at the point and the ability to be a more effective pass rusher (relatively) with his length and athleticism vs. guards much like he was in 2010.


Now 'fall' does he far? NFL teams could very well feel differently but I tend to think that he would hold a higher value for 34 teams looking for an end. We saw Cam Jordan go for a little fall last year as a 34/43 tweener end. It could be a similar situation with Coples where teams aren't totally sold on him in either front. Most of the DE needy teams are in the 19-31 range so yes I do think it's quite possible that he goes somewhere in that range.

holt_bruce81 03-27-2012 03:54 AM

I wouldnt really say falling to the late teens is really free falling like Bowers did. I'm not a huge fan of his but he at least shows some dominance versus division one competition. Unlike Poe.

A Perfect Score 03-27-2012 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE (Post 2922859)
See, I believe the opposite to be true. The reason Coples' was a less effective player on the field wasn't because of program instability as he would have you believe. It's simply because he's a better interior defensive lineman than he is on the outside. He drew a lot of positive reviews at Senior Bowl but it wasn't because of his edge rushing prowess. Where he really stood out was vs. the run when he could use his strength and length at the point of attack. As a pass rusher, both in the drills and game, we saw him use a tighter alignment and he was significantly more successful on power moves and inside moves.

He's never been much of an 'edge rusher' and we got a glimpse of why at the combine. Coples quietly had a really poor performance in Indy. On the surface he had a good weigh in, bench and a solid 40. But in the 3-cone and short shuttle, arguably the two most important drills for pass rushers, he finished dead last out of all of the DE's in both with a 7.57 and 4.78. Both of these reflect in his game with his lack of flexibility, bend of change of direction off the edge. I really believe that any 4-3 drafting him as a DE in the first round expecting him to be a strong pass rusher is making a mistake. On the other hand, I really think he stands a better chance at succeeding in a 3-4. He has an ideal body type and has the frame to carry a little more weight if need be, proven strength and physicality at the point and the ability to be a more effective pass rusher (relatively) with his length and athleticism vs. guards much like he was in 2010.


Now does he 'fall' far? NFL teams could very well feel differently but I tend to think that he would hold a higher value for 34 teams looking for an end. We saw Cam Jordan go for a little fall last year as a 34/43 tweener end. It could be a similar situation with Coples where teams aren't totally sold on him in either front. Most of the DE needy teams are in the 19-31 range so yes I do think it's quite possible that he goes somewhere in that range.

This basically sums up my feelings on Coples. I've been saying for months that the Julius Peppers comparisons are way, way off. Coples doesn't possess the same fluidity and explosiveness that make Peppers such a successful pass rusher. Someone made a Greg Ellis comparison for Coples, I thought that was pretty good. A more contemporary example might be a Justin Tuck type, if he fulfills his potential to the utmost degree.

I do think he's more of a 10-15 guy then a 5-10 guy, for what its worth.

Shane P. Hallam 03-27-2012 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaiderNation (Post 2922845)
Quinton Coples has been the favorite to be the first DE drafted for some time, but could he free fall like Da'Quan Bowers did? I don't see many teams needing a big DE with a cold motor, and he could possibly fall to the late teens. A team like Chicago needs a DE, and might view Coples as Peppers potential replacement down the line like they did with Mario Williams in F/A. Coples isn't a good fit in a 3-4 defense IMO, which will also hurt his stock with more teams going to that scheme.

It sounds like the Panthers absolutely love him, so #9 might be it.

Taber21 03-27-2012 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam (Post 2922923)
It sounds like the Panthers absolutely love him, so #9 might be it.

Smokescreen? I haven't seen the report, but they need more picks so they could be trying to force someone to trade up for Coples and gain a few extra picks.

Shane P. Hallam 03-27-2012 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taber21 (Post 2922925)
Smokescreen? I haven't seen the report, but they need more picks so they could be trying to force someone to trade up for Coples and gain a few extra picks.

I don't think it is a smokescreen, it has been the buzz since the Senior Bowl and has only continued into the Combine and his visit.

Taber21 03-27-2012 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam (Post 2922928)
I don't think it is a smokescreen, it has been the buzz since the Senior Bowl and has only continued into the Combine and his visit.


Well it is hard to blame them for liking DE's from UNC... They did invest a lot in DT's last year so it is possible they want to give those guys a full off season and another shot next year to show what they can do. Getting a pass rush in that division is clearly going to be necessary so cannot balme them for thinking DE in round 1.

H.O.O.D 03-27-2012 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broth223 (Post 2922851)
He won't fall like Bowers but I do see him falling I'm working on my mock now. I'm at 12 and don't see anywhere he really shows up at. Maybe Arizona? I think I'm going to have him end up on the Titans when its all said and done.

Arizona, Dallas and San Diego are possibilities as a 3-4 end.

Seattle, Philly, Cincy and Chicago would all look at him as a 4-3 end.

Any one of those teams could view him as BPA and take him for that reason.

Considering the Jets took ends in the 1st and 3rd last year, and Kansas City is loaded with bodies at end those are the only 2 teams within the teens who I don't think will take Coples should he slide out of the top 10. I also think there are 2 teams (Cleveland and Detroit) in the early 20's may all have some form of interest and could considering moving up for him. I just don't see him sliding out of the teens if he makes it there.

keylime_5 03-27-2012 10:58 AM

i would be shocked if he made it out of the top 9 picks. He doesn't have the questions about his knees that Bowers did. Bowers would've been a top 10 pick if he was completely healthy.

Dan_Steele 03-27-2012 11:09 AM

Da'Quan Bowers fell because of injury concerns, not because of talent. There were many that thought that he would never be healthy enough the play a full season. The jury is still out on that but so far so good. As for Coples, he is, as Mike Mayock characterized him "...as good as he wants to be." He is off the charts talented, athletic, stout against the run, and scheme diverse. However, his motor and desire to be great have always been a question. This may scare people away in the early portion of round one but I can't see him falling past Detroit at #23, his value is just too great there.

regoob2 03-27-2012 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_Steele (Post 2923038)
Da'Quan Bowers fell because of injury concerns, not because of talent. There were many that thought that he would never be healthy enough the play a full season. The jury is still out on that but so far so good. As for Coples, he is, as Mike Mayock characterized him "...as good as he wants to be." He is off the charts talented, athletic, stout against the run, and scheme diverse. However, his motor and desire to be great have always been a question. This may scare people away in the early portion of round one but I can't see him falling past Detroit at #23, his value is just too great there.

I cant see him falling past Chicago at #19.

Brothgar 03-27-2012 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam (Post 2922923)
It sounds like the Panthers absolutely love him, so #9 might be it.

Could they be looking at him to move inside to DT?

Shane P. Hallam 03-27-2012 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broth223 (Post 2923083)
Could they be looking at him to move inside to DT?

Perhaps, though a consistent option on the opposite side of Charles Johnson is a concern.

killxswitch 03-27-2012 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam (Post 2923105)
Perhaps, though a consistent option on the opposite side of Charles Johnson is a concern.

Did Greg Hardy do anything last year? I see he got 4 sacks, I thought he would develop into a good player.

Shane P. Hallam 03-27-2012 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killxswitch (Post 2923117)
Did Greg Hardy do anything last year? I see he got 4 sacks, I thought he would develop into a good player.

He's been a solid rotational player from what I watched last year, but still an injury risk and not overly consistent. I'm sure the ability to move him inside doesn't hurt!

ATLDirtyBirds 03-27-2012 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE (Post 2922859)
....



I do think he'd be successful as a 34 DE, for sure. I don't think you're giving him enough credit as a 43 rusher though. I think he'll get after the passer in a very similar way to Carlos Dunlap.

mightytitan9 03-27-2012 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score (Post 2922922)
This basically sums up my feelings on Coples. I've been saying for months that the Julius Peppers comparisons are way, way off. Coples doesn't possess the same fluidity and explosiveness that make Peppers such a successful pass rusher. Someone made a Greg Ellis comparison for Coples, I thought that was pretty good. A more contemporary example might be a Justin Tuck type, if he fulfills his potential to the utmost degree.

I do think he's more of a 10-15 guy then a 5-10 guy, for what its worth.

Personally, I view him as a Kevin Carter type.

I don't think he's the elite athlete people like to think he is. I could very well see him going 19 or 20 to the teams selecting there, respectively.

RaiderNation 03-27-2012 02:55 PM

I can't see Carolina taking Coples at 9, there are much better defensive prospects on the board. Luke Kuechly or one of the DT's makes more sense IMO

K Train 03-27-2012 03:00 PM

he would remind me of chris canty in a 34, in a 43 hes more like jamaal anderson (or what jamaal anderson should have been?)

i dont think he'll make it out of the top ten, especially with brockers falling out of top 10 hype as a 34 DE/43 DE with the ability to kick inside

BuddyCHRIST 03-27-2012 03:10 PM

Not that far, because he doesn't have knee issues. But he's a Jamaal Anderson clone to me, wouldn't touch him that high.

villagewarrior 03-27-2012 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE (Post 2922859)
See, I believe the opposite to be true. The reason Coples' was a less effective player on the field wasn't because of program instability as he would have you believe. It's simply because he's a better interior defensive lineman than he is on the outside. He drew a lot of positive reviews at Senior Bowl but it wasn't because of his edge rushing prowess. Where he really stood out was vs. the run when he could use his strength and length at the point of attack. As a pass rusher, both in the drills and game, we saw him use a tighter alignment and he was significantly more successful on power moves and inside moves.

He's never been much of an 'edge rusher' and we got a glimpse of why at the combine. Coples quietly had a really poor performance in Indy. On the surface he had a good weigh in, bench and a solid 40. But in the 3-cone and short shuttle, arguably the two most important drills for pass rushers, he finished dead last out of all of the DE's in both with a 7.57 and 4.78. Both of these reflect in his game with his lack of flexibility, bend of change of direction off the edge. I really believe that any 4-3 drafting him as a DE in the first round expecting him to be a strong pass rusher is making a mistake. On the other hand, I really think he stands a better chance at succeeding in a 3-4. He has an ideal body type and has the frame to carry a little more weight if need be, proven strength and physicality at the point and the ability to be a more effective pass rusher (relatively) with his length and athleticism vs. guards much like he was in 2010.


Now does he 'fall' far? NFL teams could very well feel differently but I tend to think that he would hold a higher value for 34 teams looking for an end. We saw Cam Jordan go for a little fall last year as a 34/43 tweener end. It could be a similar situation with Coples where teams aren't totally sold on him in either front. Most of the DE needy teams are in the 19-31 range so yes I do think it's quite possible that he goes somewhere in that range.

This. I've been trying to say this for weeks but have failed to do so in such a convincing manner. I actually would very much like it if the Chiefs were to take Coples. As another poster alluded to, Coples has the same all-world potential that Poe does, except Coples has actually produced against premium talent.

Complex 03-27-2012 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broth223 (Post 2922851)
He won't fall like Bowers but I do see him falling I'm working on my mock now. I'm at 12 and don't see anywhere he really shows up at. Maybe Arizona? I think I'm going to have him end up on the Titans when its all said and done.

If this happens, I will never say anything bad about Stafford.


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