Draft Countdown Forums

Draft Countdown Forums (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/index.php)
-   2015 NFL Draft Forum (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=47)
-   -   NFL Draft 2012 Offensive Rankings (By Position).. Feedback Wanted! :-) (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52381)

CED59 04-20-2012 12:57 AM

NFL Draft 2012 Offensive Rankings (By Position).. Feedback Wanted! :-)
hey guys (posting for a friend of mine) I'd like your feedback on his 'rankings by position' NFL Draft 2012 preview. I agree with a lot of it, but I honestly didn't follow college football like I did 2 years ago went I went to Florida.

Thank you in advance. Positive or negative, we'd like your opinion.

NFL Draft 2012 Rankings (by position)

This is Good Looking Loser’s official NFL Draft offensive player rankings by position.

It seems like I dislike A LOT of prospects. While that isn’t exactly true, I follow a strict criteria that requires picks in round 1 and round 2 to be: very productive in college, the potential for more, good work ethic, a good football IQ and the immediate talent to fill a specific need that free agency cannot provide.

If the player lacks any one of the five- they are simply not worth an early round pick. If this is the case, I’m in favor of trading down- much like the Ravens and Patriots always seem to do. A lot of teams seem to simply pick guys based on “okay, it’s our turn to pick, lets pick someone and see if what happens…” To me, teams should draft guys that will work to fill an immediate need (or a value pick based on NFL potential) rather than “he’s the best player on our board.”

Chris’ Top Quarterback Prospects (NFL Draft Rankings By Position)

Robert Griffin (Baylor)- While Luck may be the most “NFL ready,” Griffin has the bigger upside. I argue that Griffin had far LESS talent around him at Baylor and significantly outperformed Luck. Griffin also played better against tougher defenses. The thing that worries me about Griffin is that he was TERRIBLE against the blitz on down 3rd down and more than 5yards. Luck also posted better stats in the redzone (and generally seemed more comfortable). I have loved Griffin since his freshman year when, he and he alone, would keep Baylor in big games against powerhouse Big12 teams- Texas, Oklahoma. Remember how terrible Baylor was? For a decade, they were the biggest joke of ANY college football team in a major conference. Griffin, while of the mold of Michael Vick, is not as reckless and is more coachable. After watching Griffin for 3 years and Luck for 3 years- I would take Griffin since I feel he is special.
Overall 93, Ceiling 97

Andrew Luck (Stanford)- I haven’t believed the hype on Luck for a while now. Admittedly, all the hype has made me even more skeptical of Luck more than I should. He is very good. ESPN tried their best to award Luck (and Trent Richardson) the Heisman the entire year but the production and big game wins just were not there. Typically, Luck got none of the blame and all f the credit. Clearly, Jim Harbaugh makes QBs (see: Alex Smith) look better than they really are. For as “untalented” Stanford surrounding cast, in reality the Cardinal may produce 3 other FIRST ROUND picks (David DeCastro [G], Coby Fleener [TE], Jonathan Martin [T]). The argument that Luck had far less talent around him [than Griffin] is complete garbage. Luck also played significantly weak defenses. At best, throwing mechanics aside, I see Andrew Luck developing into a more athletic version of Philip Rivers or Drew Bledsoe- Luck warrants a top-10 pick for a team looking for a QB and could have a better career if he is surrounded with more talent than Robert Griffin III.
Overall 92, Ceiling 94

Kellen Moore (Boise State)-
Living in both Los Angeles and Boise, I’ve had the chance to watch Kellen Moore play and compare his game to what I saw from Chris Leak, Tim Tebow, Brian Waggener and John Brantley at Florida. Kellen is far above them all in terms of football IQ and accuracy. “Accuracy,” is often misunderstood by the average fan. Accuracy is simply the ability to understand, apply and perfect “timing” with your receivers. Leak, Tebow, Wagener and Brantley can all hit targets, moving targets not in traffic and open receivers (yes, even Tim Tebow). However, how accurate they appear in game situations is quite different. Accuracy is often a product of football IQ and ability to learn rather than raw skill. “Timing” is also a product of applying a week’s worth of repetitions on Sunday. Needless to say, I believe Kellen has a football IQ above all these guys and probably above Robert Griffin III and possibly higher than Andrew Luck. Kellen is my sleeper of this class. This is predicated on opportunity however and joining a quality franchise that can recognize and apply his ability. This is not unlike what the Patriots have done with Tom Brady. Not unlike Brady, Kellen Moore has been highly successful with whomever he has had to throw to. If I were an NFL GM of a team that already had an established top-tier QB I would trade down slightly and draft Moore in the middle of the 2nd round (and NO LATER). I believe Robert Griffin and Andrew Luck should be drafted ahead of Kellen Moore because desperate franchises need an NFL-ready QB to fill the seats. At the same time, I feel the ceiling for Moore is just as high, if not higher than Griffin and Luck. His NFL success will largely depend on opportunity however. Moore is a winner, 49-3 at Boise. Southpaw quarterback that will need at least a year of practice with the 1st team to establish his timing.
Overall 88, Ceiling 98.

Brandon Weeden (Oklahoma State)- I actually like Weeden a lot but I have been wrong on the older baseball prospects in most cases. I regard Weeden to be along the lines of Chris Weinke who was sensational at Florida State. Given the general lack of success for Weinke and Weeden playing in the Big XII (which is weaker defensively than the ACC in the late 90′s), I have to drop Weeden to no higher than a 4th round pick and unfortunately project him to be simply a backup at best. Perhaps unfair to Weeden, I’m just not buying QBs that play at Big XII powerhouses anymore (note: Baylor/Robert Griffin IS NOT a Big XII powerhouse). Zac Robinson looked like a Heisman candidate just a few years ago at Oklahoma State, but won’t be much of an NFL QB. I believe Weeden’s football IQ is higher than Robinson’s and probably pretty close to Andrew Luck’s. I’ll root for Weeden but I can’t think he’ll be a long-term starting in the NFL. The drop off from Kellen Moore to Brandon Weeden is significant in my opinion.
Overall 79, Ceiling 83.

Russell Wilson (Wisconsin)- Rarely am I impressed with a prospect (especially at QB) when I feel his collegiate team underachieved. Considering Russell Wilson’s ability to learn an entirely new offensive in about a month (he transferred from NC State to Wisconsin), adapt to defenses he’s never seen, be quite successful, be a LEADER on a new team and his interviews- I really like Russell Wilson. He’s a first round pick if he’s not 5-10.5. Of the remaining college prospects that can fight an uphill battle and be successful, I pick Wilson to do so. Like Kellen Moore, his success may be a product of opportunity and coaching from a QUALITY NFL franchise. I list him slightly below Brandon Weeden because Wilson is not as polished as Weeden as of the 2012 NFL Draft. If I were an NFL GM, with an established (not necessarily top-tier starter), I would not hesitate to draft Russell Wilson in the 4th Round. If Andrew Luck’s “ceiling” is 92 and Andrew Luck is Drew Bledsoe, I believe Russell Wilson can be almost equally as productive if he pans out.
Overall 76.5, Ceiling 88

The following college prospects deserve some consideration as late round picks
Ryan Tannehill- Seems to be developing some skills, lets not go overboard. He isn’t much different than Stephen McGee, a former Aggie that didn’t win in the big games.
Kirk Cousins- Just another in a long line of average Michigan State QBs.
Ryan Lindley- I honestly don’t know much about him, other than the guys in the next list are worse. There is no reason to reach for Lindley however.
Jacory Harris- I don’t think Jacory is a potential starter, but he’s decent backup, tall at 6-4.
Darron Thomas- Dennis Dixon. Not as good as Josh Johnson.

The following college prospects deserve absolutely no consideration as late round picks
Brock Osweiler- Wasn’t good in college vs. weak Pac-10/12, inexperienced, dorky, has an attitude. Like Joe Flacco but even worse. Wouldn’t even dominate if he stayed another year.
Nick Foles- Hyped up too much, not his fault. Even still- never did anything significant against a weak Pac-10/12.
Case Keenum- I don’t disqualify guys on arm strength usually, but Keenum has a really weak arm and not much else. Keenum is a winner though and could make an okay backup if he develops.
Aaron Corp- California sissy boy. Talked into coming to USC by sleazy Pete Carroll, should have gone elsewhere to develop.
John Brantley- Awful. Just terrible
Jordan Jefferson/Jarrett Lee- These guys make JaMarcus Russell and Matt Flynn look like Warren Moon and Joe Montana. Nothing more to say.

CED59 04-20-2012 01:00 AM

Chris’ Top Running Back Prospects (NFL Draft Rankings By Position)

1. Doug Martin (Boise State)- Although some running backs have looked elite at Boise State (see: Ian Johnson), I feel Martin is the real deal. I’ve watched him for over 2 years and he has no trouble running threw, past and away from solid competition when Boise played tougher competition outside the WAC/Mountain West. He reminds me a lot of Frank Gore but is a better receiver. Somewhat like Duce Staley, but a better running back. Martin is generally regarded at the best blocking runningback in the draft. The causal fan doesn’t put a lot of weight on that but NFL franchises and starting QBs do. It’s what separates great from good. If Martin ran behind the Alabama Crimson Tide offensive line, I believe he would have been equally as productive at Trent Richardson. I don’t know that Trent Richardson would have been as productive as Doug Martin at Boise [running out of the shotgun] however. Boise State has gotten the reputation as an undersized, overachieving, blue collar, gimmicky football team. While that may have been true in 2006, Martin is part of a the new breed of Boise athlete that is big, fast, hard working and fundamentally sound. Martin warrants the first pick for any team looking for a starting running back. Also notable, the only game that Boise lost in 2012, Martin was sidelined with an injury.
Overall 90, Ceiling 94

2. Trent Richardson (Alabama)- Like Joe ESQ, I am not that high on Trent Richardson. Like Andrew Luck, there has been a lot of hype around Trent Richardson. With the hype comes the sharper critique. It was the foregone conclusion that Trent Richardson and Andrew Luck were in a 2-player Heisman race, even after both failed to deliver in big games. While this is enough to call Richardson overrated, I can’t drop him any lower than the second best back in this draft since their is no player that stands out more in my mind. Richardson is worthy of an early 2nd round pick based on “need” or as a late 1st round pick as an overall athlete. Notable also is Mark Ingram, Trent Richardson and recently, Eddie Lacey have all looked like Eric Dickerson running behind the Crimson Tide line. I felt Mark Ingram was a good late round pick and I feel Trent Richardson would be the same. An X-factor here is something I call the “Juice Factor,” even though Richardson is a genetic freak, Trent Richardson’s muscle mass at this point is not natural. As former athlete that has [legally] used anabolic steroids, I worry that Trent Richardson will have a short shelf life in the NFL. He is not Adrian Peterson.
Overall 87, Ceiling 88

3. Lamar Miller (Miami)- By default and by my “only draft a running back based on 4 years of potential” criteria, Lamar Miller gets the third spot by default. There’s simply nobody with significantly more upside that I see. Chris Polk is good, but he’s carried the ball over 1000 times. LaMichael James is good but he’s too small to play every down. If I thought James was as good as Darren Sproles, I would easily have him #2 overall. Lamar Miller seems to be a very talented, somewhat productive piece of a dysfunctional Miami team. Miami has a good history of developing running backs, so Miller is worth a look.
Overall 81, Ceiling 86

The following college prospects deserve some consideration as late(r) round picks

Dan “Boom” Herron- What’s with the Ohio State nicknames? Decent player overall. Sat behind Beanie Wells though.
Chris Polk- Quick but extra short shelf life probably.
David Wilson- Overrated, worth a late round look though, not a fan of drafting running backs early if they aren’t a sure thing.
LaMichael James- Good guy. Who knows, maybe I’m wrong- maybe he’s Darren Sproles.
Isaiah Pead- Is he better than most NFL free agents? Slightly. Good player, don’t expect him to play all 3 downs.
Terrance Ganaway- Huge Black running back who found success running out of the shotgun despite his size, might be a solid change of pace back to a smaller established RB such as Ahmad Bradshaw or LeSean McCoy.

The following college prospects deserve no consideration as late(r) round picks
Chris Rainey- Like Gator Strength Coach Mickey Marrotti said, “How many guys are there in the NFL that weigh 150lbs?” Unlike the line of hard-working Urban Meyer recruits, Rainey is lazy and isn’t serious about football.
Marc Tyler- Wow, it’s crazy to think that Marc Tyler was part of the Dream Class of USC blue-chip running backs. Simply too many injuries for this guy even though he worked extremely hard to fight back. I feel bad for putting him here actually.
Bernard Pierce- Like Tyler, I feel bad for putting this guy on the list. I like him. He’s just had too many injuries and not worth a pick or a guaranteed contract. The teams with a good GMs pay running backs for their potential not their previous stats.

Random Projects
Bryce Brown - Still young, talented former 5-star high school star that basically quit two college teams but might be humbled to play against elite competition. Likely just a lazy waste of talent though (see: Fred Russell). Obviously he probably won’t get picked, but this is an interesting story. I’m not a fan of drafting or signing player that weren’t successful at lower levels, but running back is somewhat different considering there’s no long-term commitment necessary.

CED59 04-20-2012 01:02 AM

CChris’ Top Wide Receiver Prospects (NFL Draft Rankings By Position)

Michael Floyd (Notre Dame)- Despite the pathetic QB situation at Notre Dame, Michael Floyd still had 100 catches and 10 TDs (total). I haven’t been high on Notre Dame wideouts (Golden Tate) but Floyd is a big, talented receiver that is the leading receiver in Notre Dame history (most Notre Dame players stay 4 years). Clearly, if Floyd had gone to Oklahoma State, he would have been as productive as Blackmon. He’s taller and faster off the line. He can be big and nasty like Hakeem Nicks. I like Floyd a lot and I don’t consider him to have character issues. He went to Notre Dame right?
Overall 89, Ceiling 93

Justin Blackmon (Oklahoma State)- Maybe it’s unfair to hold it against Blackmon but both Dez Bryant and Michael Crabtree have vastly underachieved. As well as a host of other Big XII stars- Malcom Kelley, Limas Sweed, etc. [after looking unstoppable in conference play. I consider Dez to be the most overrated player in the entire NFL. I swore Crabtree was nearly the best WR I’d ever seen and he isn’t even good in the NFL. Blackmon is talented, but largely a product of the Cowpoke Air-Raid and pathetic defensive in the Big XII. Big XII corners are particularly vulnerable to tall flankers. I don’t believe Blackmon is as tough as Michael Floyd either. Blackmon has good body control and good hands though, he’s just moderately overrated. For comparison purposes. he’s nowhere near AJ Green or Julio Jones. He will have a productive career and due with the lack of elite talent at the WR position this year, Blackmon warrants a first round “need-based” pick.
Overall 86, Ceiling 90

Nick Toon (Wisconsin)- If Ryan Broyles were healthy, this spot would go to him. Still, I’m surprised that more scouts aren’t talking about Nick Toon, the son of NFL “pretty good” WR- Al Toon. He’s a big and tough physical player somewhat like Anquan Boldin (I predicted Boldin’s huge success). He’s good after the catch and strong hands. Faster than we thought, 4.43 but still needs to learn to flip the hips to square off routes. I like him better than Kendall Wright.
Overall 84, Ceiling 89

The following college prospects deserve some consideration as late(r) round picks
Kendall Wright- I tend to think that Robert Griffin and the weak Big XII made him look better than he is, but he’s worth consideration as the 4th or 5th WR in this class.
Stephen Hill- Undoubtedly, Stephen Hill will be picked high by some losing franchise that doesn’t understand that track players than don’t make an impact at the college level will NEVER become elite receivers. I’m thinking Washington, Jacksonville or Cleveland will step up to get Hill. The comparisons to Calvin Johnson are ridiculous, he’s more like Demarius Thomas who is garbage. Hill is worth a late middle/late round pick. Not much earlier unless the team is in desperate need of at receiver. He won’t be playing much for 2 or 3 years. Consider him Darius-Heyward Bey.
Alshon Jeffery- Just two years ago this guy looked like the best SEC receiver ever. He wasn’t the typical Spurrier WR either. He was one of the only WRs to match up and beat Janoris Jenkins several times. Apparently he got really fat and slow. This is very bizarre but I’d rather have him over Stephen Hill. Jeffery has elite body control and hands, but isn’t that fast. Very late 2nd round or early 3rd round seems appropriate. Prior to this season I believed he was top receiver in this class. Teams can’t take a player in the first 2 rounds unless the player is a sure thing (starter). Jeffery isn’t a sure thin.
Rueben Randle- I tend to think that Randle is closer to the ‘can’t get on the field LSU WRs’ rather than closer to Early Doucet or Dwayne Bowe. But he’s worth consideration in the late rounds.
Brian Quick- Little known D1-aa WR that has elite straight line speed and size. Played well at the Senior Bowl. Understandably, he faced competition that could never play major Division-1 football but he’s worth a late round pick. 202 catches in his Appalachian State career and likely could start at ANY college football program.
Marquis Maze- Small, but strong work ethic and intangibles make him an interesting late(r) pick. Teams that target (and need) slot receivers could justify a reach for him and not regret it.
Tyler Shoemaker- A tall, tough Boise State receiver with good hands. Somewhat like the Buffalo Bill’s (former Gator) David Nelson but Shoemaker is tougher but not as smooth.

The following college prospects deserve no consideration as late(r) round picks
I don’t see any guys that are so much worse than the rest here.
Any remaining unlisted wide receivers with character issues should be immediately removed from draft boards.

Random Projects
Ryan Broyles- The NCAA’s leader in receptions and considered by far the best player on Oklahoma by his teammates. Had a major knee injury that has destroyed his draft stock. I know Oklahoma hasn’t produced an elite receiver in decades and Broyles is small. Broyles is also tough, hard working and has great hands.

CED59 04-20-2012 01:04 AM

Chris’ Top Tight End Prospects (NFL Draft Rankings By Position)

I don’t see anyone here that I’d pick in the first round that is significantly better or provides more upside than the players in free agency. The success of these tight ends will depend largely on their role in their new offense. Basically, nobody stands out in terms of pass catching ability. I’m sure there are a few guys that can block well, those guys deserve consideration as late picks. There’s no Rob Gronkowski or Jimmy Graham in this class.

The following college prospects deserve some consideration as late(r) round picks
Coby Fleener- We establish Fleener’s value ranking assuming that Fleener is legitimately worthy of a late 1st round pick, as most draft boards have him. With that assumption, I have to say Fleener is overrated. If a team has an immediate need at TE, drafting Fleener makes sense in the early second round. He offers upside as former star basketball player and playing in a pro-style system at Stanford. With that said, compared to other draft boards I don’t see the point of taking Fleener. Trading down seems like a better deal.
Ladarius Green- Green is the most interesting TE in this class. All 32 NFL teams watched his pro day. He’s 6-7 and can move well, he averaged 18 yards a catch and even lines up a wide receiver. I don’t think he an split out wide with ISO on an NFL corner or safety, but this is just evidence that he can move. If he had a “Vernon Davis” or “Vernon Gholston” body he might be seen as a first round pick. I’d rather take Green late than Coby Fleener early. I see Green being very successful on a team like the Patriots, Texans or Panthers that like (and know how to) get their tight ends in space.
Orson Charles- Charles gets some consideration over the remaining also non-standouts for the simple fact that Georgia seems to put out solid pass-catching TEs. Ben Watson, Randy McMichael, Jermaine Wiggins, Leonard Pope, etc. It’s inappropriate to totally generalize but like Miami is ‘Tailback U” and Penn State was ‘Linebacker U’, I guess Georgia is ‘Tight End U’. I’m not suggesting a team pick Charles based on what other athletes have done, I think it’s worth some consideration to at least look at the guy who plays against (and has been successful against) very fast SEC linebackers and safeties.

Chris’ Top Offensive Line Prospects (NFL Draft Rankings By Position)

Center (worthy of a pick in rounds 1-2)
Peter Konz (#1)- In a long line of excellent Wisconsin offensive linemen. Can pass block well, Wisconsin is known for their rushing attack.
Michael Brewster (#2)- Solid Ohio State Center, faster than most Ohio State interior players.
Kai Maiava (late pick)- Only Center prospects that I’ve seen in person, won his matchup all day against Oregon State. He will need lose a fair amount of weight to move with the NFL players though. Brother Kuluka Maiava is in the NFL.

Offensive Guard (worthy of a pick in rounds 1-2)
David DeCastro (#1)- One of the reasons that Andrew Luck had all day to throw. First round pick.
Kevin Zeitler (#2)- Another Wisconsin monster on the line that can pull and move. First or second round pick.
Amini Silatolu (#3)- Athletic Polynesian that dominated Division II because he didn’t have the grades for Boise State (might not speak English well). Looked like Orlando Pace in Division II. Second round pick.

Offensive Tackle (worthy of a pick in rounds 1-2)
Matt Kalil (#1, #1 OVERALL)- I consider Matt Kalil the very best player in this draft. Obviously the quarterback position is the most important, but the left tackle position is exceptionally important too. If the Colts didn’t have a need at QB, I would expect them to take Matt Kalil. Had no trouble dominating at USC when he first saw action. Brother of smaller pro-bowl center Ryan Kalil. Huge, hard worker, athletic, will be an All-Pro for 10 years.
Johnathan Martin (#2)- Another reason that Andrew Luck had all day to throw. Smart, instinctive player. Late 1st round pick.
Mike Adams (#3)- Anchor of a overlooked Ohio State offensive line. Not neccesarily a pro-bowl player, but a solid offensive wall. Rare Breed. Late 1st round/early 2nd round pick.
Cordy Glenn (#4)- Glenn may be selected before Martin and Adams because he’s bigger, but he’s not quite as good. He is still worthy of an early 2nd round pick.
Riley Reiff (#5)- Not as overrated as Robert Gallery but no where near the top 2 guys on this list. Why is he hyped so much? Late 2nd round selection.

... Thank you for reading :)

YAYareaRB 04-20-2012 01:06 AM

i think baylor and stanford schedule was damn near even to tell ya the truth. big 12 isn't exactly known for defense anyways.

CED59 04-20-2012 01:15 AM

i agree with ya

Bixby (Thumper) 04-20-2012 01:57 AM

Honestly, I don't even know where to start. I guess I can start with how did your friend come up with random, arbitrary numbers for potential? Seems inexact.

The QB rankings are insane and filled with stuff that isn't true. Tannehill is McGee? Griffin played with inferior talent (Kendall Wright anyone?!)? Russell Wilson can be equally as productive as Andrew Luck (and I could be a billionaire too)? Brandon Weeden's football IQ is close to Luck's (WHAT?!)? Kellen Moore's ceiling is just as high if not higher than Luck's and Griffin's?

Martin over Richardson? LaMar Miller gets the #3 spot by default because you think he's the best of whatever scraps are left (have you seen Miller play?)? Chris Rainey is 150 pounds? I don't know of any injuries to Bernard Pierce. Where are Robert Turbin, Cyrus Gray and Ronnie Hillman?

Nick Toon the #3 WR? Kendall Wright, Stephen Hill and Alshon Jeffery deserve some consideration as late round picks? SOME?! And this wide receiver class is absolutely stacked yet you only talk about 11 of them. Uh... Sanu? Criner? Givens? AJ Jenkins? Jones? Adams? Jairus Wright? Greg Childs? TY Hilton? Devon Wylie? Tommy Streeter? Junior Hemingway? Eric Page? Dwight Jones? Jeff Fuller? TJ Graham? BJ Cunningham? C'mon.

Georgia is "TE University" because of Ben Watson, Randy McMichael, Jermaine Wiggins and Leonard Pope? Uh... How about no?

Matt Kalil the #1 player? The same guy who is wildly inconsistent, shows almost no mean streak at times and plays lazy (not a high motor player)? He's nowhere close to Joe Thomas and Jake Long as a prospect. Heck, I don't think he's better than Tyron Smith and Anthony Costanzo from last year. And Jonathan Martin might just be the most overrated player in the draft.

There is so much in here that I take issue with that its too much of an effort to explain myself. This is going to look MIGHTY foolish in 5 years. Mighty foolish.

Pat Sims 90 04-20-2012 02:09 AM

Kellen Moore with a higher ceiling then Luck and Griffin.

duesouth 04-20-2012 03:23 AM

As a general "industry" there's too much similarity in Draft rankings. So, although I don't agree with some of them, I do like to see someone who is willing to be different. As a general opinion I think more film study required - some highly talented prospects missing. There are tons of people to read out there, so you need to watch a ton of film to be really respected.

Now my opinion/comments!

QB - Luck is better than RG3 by some distance for me. Look at his eyes - goes through his progressions far better than RG3. Does more pre and post snap reading than RG3. Is far more pro ready - I could perhaps live with RG's upside being higher - but Luck is the better prospect for me.

Couldn't disagree more on Kellen Moore. Can't make the 10-20 yard throw outside the hash marks and unless a team wants to go 100% spread like the Oilers took the gamble by going run and shoot in the late 80's, then he's a 3rd stringer at best.

"Kirk Cousins- Just another in a long line of average Michigan State QBs." Couldn't disagree more. Great leader, does a lot of the pre-snap stuff that Luck does and although he lacks great physical tools, his arm is good enough and I think he can be the next Andy Dalton.

"Ryan Lindley- I honestly don’t know much about him, other than the guys in the next list are worse. There is no reason to reach for Lindley however" - If you don't know anything about Lindley, than you can't write about him!!


Doug Martin above Trent Richardson - different is good - but this might be too different!! Take off the blue tinted specs!!

Where's Robert Turbin?? He's a day two talent.


Nick Toon way too high - most of his catches he's got someone draped all over him - can't separate = will struggle to make it. Day 3 prospect for me.

It's a very deep WR class and there a ton of guys not mentioned that need to be (AJ Jenkins; Chris Givens; Marv Jones etc. etc.)

TE - fair enough - Dwayne Allen does warrant a mention though.

OL I can live with!! Agree with Reiff not being ranked super high.

Caddy 04-20-2012 04:02 AM

As soon as I saw the 98 Ceiling for Kellen Moore I stopped reading. It should have been 100.

niel89 04-20-2012 04:10 AM

At first I was confused but then I saw you had Kellen Moore with a higher ceiling than Luck & Griffen. You completely sell Luck short. I find it hard to take your evaluations seriously.

Kellen Moore may be better than Chris Leak but that means jack. Moore is irreconcilably under-talented for the NFL. He was a superb college player. He has great football smarts and timing, but he had to have those things to compete at the college level. His arm is just way too weak to provide any real challenge to an NFL defense.

tjsunstein 04-20-2012 09:02 AM

Dare to be different I guess.

K Train 04-20-2012 09:08 AM

i too believe kellen moores ceiling should have been closer to 100, maybe even 100000

killxswitch 04-20-2012 09:08 AM

You wrote a lot but once I saw Kellen Moore's potential is higher than Luck's OR Griffin's, I stopped reading. Don't quit your day job.

Wootylicous 04-20-2012 09:13 AM

scottyboy 04-20-2012 09:16 AM


oh well:

and no sanu? are you freaking kidding me?

Sloopy 04-20-2012 09:16 AM


Originally Posted by CED59 (Post 2957519)
Brock Osweiler- Wasn’t good in college vs. weak Pac-10/12, inexperienced, dorky, has an attitude.

WE CAN'T HAVE DORKY QBs IN THIS LEAGUE!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY WILL RUIN OUR COOL FACTOR (said while posting on draft board)!!!!!

K Train 04-20-2012 09:20 AM


Originally Posted by Tha Wootster (Post 2957745)

i heard he can do that with his ***** too. i bet hes got laid on the smurf turf like a thousand times. all he would have to do is tell the girl hes got a 98 ceiling

NorrinRadd12 04-20-2012 09:22 AM

Refreshing to read. Agree with Richardson, he's too muscle bound.

jojo 04-20-2012 09:45 AM

Martin above Richardson?? I know draft analysts like to make a big noise here with essay evaluation posts, but give me a freaking break!!


As former athlete that has [legally] used anabolic steroids, I worry that Trent Richardson will have a short shelf life in the NFL.
Perhaps those roids affected your cognitive processes here. The reason he like ALL NFL RBs will have a short shelf life is b/c they absorb 25-30 or more high-speed impacts per game from armored giants weighing up to 350 pounds running sub-4.4 40s!

Just b/c Reiff came from the same system as Gallery doesn't mean he will bust as soon as gallery. And Stephen Hill's lack of production is due to playing in triple-option offense, not from being a track star.

Looking at way too many trees here has blinded your forest view.

On the positive side I like the props given to Nick Toon, especially over Kendall Wright who is dropping like a rock.

Bulldogs 04-20-2012 09:58 AM

This thread delivers.

Shane P. Hallam 04-20-2012 09:59 AM

Don't worry everyone, he has posted it for a friend.

Bulldogs 04-20-2012 10:04 AM

CED59's friend (SWDC) - Very unconventional with his approach to rankings. Not afraid to go against the grain and place players where they will surely end up in 10 years anyway. Recognizes way overrated prospects when he sees them (Luck, Tannehill). Understands the greatness that is Kellen Moore. Great vision when finding obvious steroid using players and predicts when their careers will end.

Prospect comparison - Mike Mayock

K Train 04-20-2012 10:13 AM


Originally Posted by Bulldogs (Post 2957793)
CED59's friend (SWDC) - Very unconventional with his approach to rankings. Not afraid to go against the grain and place players where they will surely end up in 10 years anyway. Recognizes way overrated prospects when he sees them (Luck, Tannehill). Understands the greatness that is Kellen Moore. Great vision when finding obvious steroid using players and predicts when their careers will end.

Prospect comparison - Mike Mayock


CED59 04-20-2012 10:19 AM

Thanks for the feedback on part I of my friends discussion.. I've discussed this stuff at length with him. I have TRich over Martin, but I like Martin too.

I feel Kellen Moore is more like Matt Leinart. But still, would it be so crazy if he had a better career than Luck? We've seen way crazier things.

I'm not an expert on this by any means but even "draft experts" have been wrong on-
1. Drafting JaMarcus Russell and assuming he will make 5-10 years worth of probowls. Guy couldn't stay in the league.
2. Charles Rodgers over Andre Johnson
3. Every QB picked before Tom Brady
4. Vince Young, Matt Leinart - can't go wrong with either of them
5. Passing on Reggie Bush is the biggest mistake ever
6. Troy Williamson, Erasmus James over Aaron Rodgers (when the Vikings needed a QB)

ive been on the wrong side of some of those.. so I don't think Kellen Moore ultimately being a better QB than Andrew Luck is that absurd. Picking a first round QB is heads or tails.. literally 50% apparently, as I read on NFL.com


oh the players not listed- I like some of them, but he told me it wasn't necessarily to analyze players that would ultimately be 5th round picks be out of the league in 3 years.

my question on Tannehill is- If the media wasn't pumping up his draft stock, would 25 of the 32 teams even think that he should be drafted? It seems like 1 or 2 teams express interest in Tannehill (for example), the media hears it and runs with it, then all 32 teams (minus New England) appear to be interested. But all the while, just 1 or 2 teams were interested and the majority of the league never even thought to consider the player

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.