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-   -   Discuss the draft class as a whole. (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52713)

onejayhawk 04-29-2012 10:25 AM

Discuss the draft class as a whole.
 
I'll start with KC V
Quote:

Originally Posted by King Carls 5 Year Plan (Post 2976996)
just a quick few thoughts on this draft. it was the ultimate in unsexy. when the sexiest part of your draft is the athleticism of a NT or a 4th rd slot WR nick named "Wiggles", them its unsexy. however, as unsexy as it may have been, it was just what this team needed. we added depth at some key positions. we added LOTS of beef to the offensive and defensive lines. we have players with high potential at key positions where they can learn at become greatly improved. i'm a little surprized that a CB or true 5 tech wasn't drafted (or earlier), but all in all this isn't going to be a draft graded with a A+ from draft pundits. what is going to do is add a lot of lunch pale workers to this team at positions we needed help. later down the line, we may look back at this draft as a big reason for our sustained success

one quick pat on the back for myself (watch me break my arm doing it). the Chiefs selected and signed 0 QBs this entire weekend. as i said the second they signed Quinn, i felt they wouldn't draft a QB. i think they flirted with Tannehill, but ultimately they did not want to trade up to get him.

this is also a firm indication, as most of us know, that Stanzi is the QB of the Future and just because he didn't start any games last year it isn't reason to give up on him yet. that year of learning, watching film and practicing with this team will be invaluable. (on a side note, if only he were the magical age of 28 already, he could start over Cassel, right J? i guess you were right about a team taking him in round 1, but we have to wait a couple years to see his success. wait i mean this year, cause he won't get to many years of being avg before he collects social security.


onejayhawk 04-29-2012 10:44 AM

My thoughts run parallel. Great draft for depth, which is good.We had few real needs.

Poe fills the big one,no pun intended. NT has been an issue for years, but no longer. Allen will push if not replace Lilja. Not a need, but a nice situation.

The rest was depth, projects and role filing. The unspoken need has been for a top slot receiver. Wylie is going to be a very good slot man. Hemingway is a perfect WR5. Menzie is a ST ace and dime safety. Stephenson and Gray understudy Albert and JC.

This was a good draft. We gain a lot of size, some speed, and tons of depth.

J

vidae 04-29-2012 11:15 AM

The only thing I disagree with is that Allen wasn't a need. Lilja is about to be 30 years old and his play declined significantly last year.

nepg 04-29-2012 11:21 AM

Breaston is a top slot receiver... They were just too stupid to play him where GW belonged and were forced to play him wide early while Baldwin was out. They needed depth in the worst way, though. The second sentence is an indictment on their depth at WR.

This was the perfect draft for this team.

BPhilb 04-29-2012 12:03 PM

For many years now KC has had one of the worst offensive lines. This year they signed Winston and drafted Allen and Stephenson giving them immediate options to upgrade the line both this year and in the future. They also built more depth at running back with

Cyrus Gray who was the complete package at A&M but ran behind a very overrate OLine and didn't produce as well as his talent suggest. He could be a better pro than collegian and as we seen last year after Charles was hurt there as no depth.

The NFL is about matchups and getting Wylie forces a team to put another corner of the field and gives us options with our TE's or running game. I thought this was a great pick the more I looked at it.

Poe is what he is which is a boom or bust prospect. They upside is so much and the need so great you can't blame the pick. I don't know what to think of it but I'll be cheering like hell for it to work out as our defense would be stout if we ever get a dominate NT.

Now we get to wait until training camp.

onejayhawk 04-30-2012 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPhilb (Post 2977980)
For many years now KC has had one of the worst offensive lines. This year they signed Winston and drafted Allen and Stephenson giving them immediate options to upgrade the line both this year and in the future. They also built more depth at running back with

Cyrus Gray who was the complete package at A&M but ran behind a very overrate OLine and didn't produce as well as his talent suggest. He could be a better pro than collegian and as we seen last year after Charles was hurt there as no depth.

The NFL is about matchups and getting Wylie forces a team to put another corner of the field and gives us options with our TE's or running game. I thought this was a great pick the more I looked at it.

Poe is what he is which is a boom or bust prospect. They upside is so much and the need so great you can't blame the pick. I don't know what to think of it but I'll be cheering like hell for it to work out as our defense would be stout if we ever get a dominate NT.

Now we get to wait until training camp.

We have not had one of the worst OL. We did in 2008 and half of 2009. In 2010 it was among the best in the league. Last year we were not as healthy and losing Waters hurt badly. Still the OL was not in the bottom third.

Gray has serious holes in his game, which is why he lasted to the 6th. But he also has speed, which you cannot teach. We will see if he can learn what can be taught.

Wylie is my favorite pick, partly because so few people get it.

Poe is not a boom or bust. He has a very nice floor level. At the very least he will be a competent starter, which all the floor you ever get.

J

SolidGold 04-30-2012 06:44 AM

I am glad they didn't draft QB because my number one QB man crush is Stanzi who everyone seemed to forget about leading up to the draft when they were projecting Cousins/Tannehill to the Chiefs.

nepg 04-30-2012 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold (Post 2979017)
I am glad they didn't draft QB because my number one QB man crush is Stanzi who everyone seemed to forget about leading up to the draft when they were projecting Cousins/Tannehill to the Chiefs.

Yeah, I never understood the media completely leaving Stanzi out of the equation (well, that's sort of a lie - I know they're ********). Yet, they'd bring up Brady ******* Quinn every chance they got. Quinn is the 3rd QB on this roster. He wasn't brought in to be any kind of an upgrade to the #2 QB position, he was brought in because he's a great clipboard holder and a good guy in the lockerroom.

onejayhawk 04-30-2012 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg (Post 2979035)
Yeah, I never understood the media completely leaving Stanzi out of the equation (well, that's sort of a lie - I know they're ********). Yet, they'd bring up Brady ******* Quinn every chance they got. Quinn is the 3rd QB on this roster. He wasn't brought in to be any kind of an upgrade to the #2 QB position, he was brought in because he's a great clipboard holder and a good guy in the lockerroom.

I am a bit high on Quinn. He was extremely overhyped coming out, but he was worth at least a 2nd/3rd round pick. He has some accumulated experience, and there is not any rush to use him.

Stanzi was last year's Cousins. We will see if that is good or bad.

J

vidae 04-30-2012 09:20 AM

There is absolutely ZERO REASON to be high on Stanzi. ZERO. There is nothing you can point to right now about his time as a pro. There is literally nothing. If this team is seriously considering banking its future on a 5th round QB, we're in trouble.

nepg 04-30-2012 02:21 PM

Stanzi has high end starting QB potential. Much higher ceiling and floor than anyone taken after the first round of 2012. There's nothing about his time as a pro to show otherwise.

vidae 04-30-2012 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg (Post 2979819)
Stanzi has high end starting QB potential. Much higher ceiling and floor than anyone taken after the first round of 2012. There's nothing about his time as a pro to show otherwise.

Why? Why does he have high end starting QB potential? What has he done SINCE HE JOINED THE LEAGUE points to that at all? Nothing. There is nothing about his time as a pro to PROVE THAT.

You're usually a pretty bad homer, but this kind of stuff is just stupid.

onejayhawk 04-30-2012 04:10 PM

I might as well post my comments from the general forum.

Round 1, pick 11: Dontari Poe - NT - Memphis (A)

Poeis reputed to have been their #1 NT before the Combine. Scott had him as his #1 DT for a while. Seriously, this is very solid pick. That being said, it appears Kuechly was their guy.

Round 2, pick 44: Jeff Allen - OG - Illinois (B+)

OL was thin and banged up last year. Improving it was an off season priority. Allen is a natural in pass blocking, so he looks like a LG. Lilja was much better at RG than LG, and he's 30, so that makes sense.

Round 3, pick 74: Donald Stephenson - OT - Oklahoma (B+)

In the theme of the last post, more work on the OL. DS has 1st round tools, but is very raw. Winston has a 4 year contract, but after 2012 and maybe 2013, he will face some competition. For that matter, DS may push Albert to RT.

Round 4, pick 107: Devon Wylie - WR - Fresno State (A)

The Chiefs draft middle rounds for roles or total value. Wylie is a role guy. Breaston is one sort of slot receiver, and Wylie is another. He plays a lot from day one, and may catch 100 passes some year.

Round 5, pick 146: DeQuan Menzie - S - Alabama (B-)

I am persuaded to like this pick a little better now than at first. I still think its a reach. Menzie is an undersized safety, who played CB in college. He si a prototypical Chiefs player: focused, dedicated, overachiever. He will be a great ST hammer, and may have been drafted as a ST first player. Another case of drafting roles.

Round 6, pick 182: Cyrus Gray - RB - Texas A&M (B)

I am not a big fan. For a RB that is built like a truck, he does not play like one. Still, he has virtues, and his price is very sheap. He will have to learn pass blocking if he is going to get any PT.

Round 7, pick 218: Jerome Long - DT - SDSU (D)

I will not fail a 7th round pick. I just hope the Chiefs know something everyone else does not. This guy makes Gabe Miller look publicized.

Round 7, pick 238: Junior Hemingway - WR - Michigan (B)

Now we are talking. This is what I want from a 7th round pick. Good body, but a tad short for TE. Played in Michigan's funky offense. He looks like a good WR5/ST gunner/H-back in training. Good dice roll.

The Chiefs had few holes, and they addressed the big one at #11. Poe could be a combination of a lot of good players, but really he is unique--a NT who can both penetrate and anchor. His technique isnt yet, but he will make a difference by year end. The rest of the draft addressed depth issues at OL, WR, DB and especially ST. Other than Poe, there likely will not be any immediate starters, but down the road, we could have several.

For a grade, this draft is solid, but lacks last year's brilliance. B+.

J

vidae 04-30-2012 04:33 PM

I'm a pretty big fan of this draft after it really sunk in. It isn't sexy, but it should be very effective and hit a lot of depth that were glaring areas of need.

TheMatriculator 04-30-2012 06:50 PM

Interesting quote from Romeo's part of the Day 1 press conference: "We were ready with several different players, as they went off the board...he was still there so we made the choice." I think onejayhawk is probably right about Kuechly being their first choice. Nevertheless, if it works out, the Chiefs should thank Carolina for making the decision for them.

A couple of things strike me about this draft, there appears to be no pressure from Clark Hunt to make the splashy kind of pick that will sell tickets. These are all picks that will only appeal to football geeks. They are also long term picks that only a secure GM and HC can make.

Finally, I suspect Romeo has a lot more say in the draft room than we might have imagined. A lot of these guys are "coach's picks" as opposed to "scout's picks." Players who may not have performed up to their abilities in college but who can be coached up at the next level.

nepg 04-30-2012 07:13 PM

I don't know... Of course Romeo has say in the matter, but he and Pioli think the same way as far as players go anyway. If Pioli likes a guy, Romeo probably does too. Without them ever discussing the player with one another, if you took them in opposite rooms and asked them about the guy, they'd have similar things to say.

It's not like with Haley where you have a GM who's been doing it for decades and then a head coach who is an infant as far as evaluating players coming out of the draft is concerned.

Romeo and Scott have both been doing this for decades under the same banner. They both know what they're doing and they are on the same page just by default. You won't see them fighting with each other over a player decision like you might see with Haley-Pioli.

TheMatriculator 04-30-2012 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg (Post 2980245)
I don't know... Of course Romeo has say in the matter, but he and Pioli think the same way as far as players go anyway. If Pioli likes a guy, Romeo probably does too. Without them ever discussing the player with one another, if you took them in opposite rooms and asked them about the guy, they'd have similar things to say.

It's not like with Haley where you have a GM who's been doing it for decades and then a head coach who is an infant as far as evaluating players coming out of the draft is concerned.

Romeo and Scott have both been doing this for decades under the same banner. They both know what they're doing and they are on the same page just by default. You won't see them fighting with each other over a player decision like you might see with Haley-Pioli.

Sometimes I have to wonder where this stuff comes from. :facepalm:

Haley was a scout before he was ever a coach.

vidae 04-30-2012 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMatriculator (Post 2980333)
Sometimes I have to wonder where this stuff comes from. :facepalm:

Haley was a scout before he was ever a coach.

He just makes stuff up as he goes along. It's rather annoying at times.

nepg 04-30-2012 09:16 PM

He was an assistant in the scouting department for an entire two years. His daddy got him the job. He was never a "scout".

And he was a golfer in college.

TheMatriculator 04-30-2012 09:42 PM

What's the point in even responding to this guy.

nepg 04-30-2012 09:51 PM

Well, you tried to call me out on something, then you were wrong.

The guy spent 2 years bringing coffee to his dad after finishing Van Wilder Bachelor's program, then he started getting into coaching. I'm not trying to say Haley is dumb by using the infant analogy, he just doesn't have close to the level of experience in evaluating players that Pioli and Crennel do. And his first year as head coach was his first year evaluating a draft class.

Haley did a great job taking advantage of the lot he was given in life. He became a solid coach working under some of the very best offensive coaches of the last 2-3 decades.

BPhilb 04-30-2012 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onejayhawk (Post 2979012)
We have not had one of the worst OL. We did in 2008 and half of 2009. In 2010 it was among the best in the league. Last year we were not as healthy and losing Waters hurt badly. Still the OL was not in the bottom third.

J

Jamal Charles was unreal for half of 2009 and all of 2010. He is a special back that made our line metrics look better. This wasn't a good line and hasn't been for quite some time.

T-RICH49 04-30-2012 10:29 PM

not the sexiest draft by any means but depth was a huge problem last year and we did a nice job addressing it

Hermstheman83 04-30-2012 11:08 PM

I'm pretty excited about this draft. We've obviously swung for the fences with poe. Got another solid Olineman, a developmental guy who can be a swing tackle. A speedster similar to Steve Smith. We've addressed needs and gotten deeper at multiple positions. I think the success of this draft hinges on Poe.....and he's my facebook friend now, so I can only hope he blows up.

nepg 04-30-2012 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPhilb (Post 2980420)
Jamal Charles was unreal for half of 2009 and all of 2010. He is a special back that made our line metrics look better. This wasn't a good line and hasn't been for quite some time.

The OL was solid in 2010. The few weak points they had were masked by Weis's gameplanning which is based entirely around getting the ball out of the QB's hands as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, they lacked the depth at receiver to do much other than run the ball and run the same over/under passing game with Moeaki & Bowe. Both of which were shut down easily by stacking the box and making a coverage adjustment.

There are three differences between 2010 and 2011. 1. Lilja played at a Pro Bowl level in 2010 and was awful in 2011, 2. Richardson was pretty good for most of 2010 and just completely lost it in 2011, and 3. the gameplanning was awful in 2011.

In 2012, they have a solid LT, All-Pro level RT, very good RG, potentially very good C, and Lilja will have a short leash at LG -- and only one of those players wasn't on the team last year, so there's very good continuity (which is more important than talent in most instances -- for OL at least). The offensive attack will also be much more dynamic than it's probably ever been in Kansas City and that will help the OL as well.


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